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  #1  
Old 08-05-2020, 07:23 AM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Do police understand your biggest supporters starting to turn?

I hope this isn't too controversial or inappropriate but it revolves around a changing dynamic that I wonder if our police recognize.

During Covid and the BLM Riots, police in many many instances have sat on their hands and done nothing while property was destroyed, assaults and intimidation occurred, and many other crimes, some felonies happened right in front of them. Angry mobs ran unchecked and business destroyed with police doing nothing, zero, zilch. Not all police and not all communities but it is so bad the major media will not even show the videos as they cover up these facts.

So, if police do nothing in face of lawlessness from those that hate them, why do they then arrest those on the side of the police for issues as minor as writing Pro-life slogans with chalk? Or arrest a couple for protecting their property and ignore those breaking into the private property. Or arrest those for not wearing mask while not arresting rioters for not social distancing or maskes?

Why do police refuse to enforce laws against rioters and those THAT WANT THEM DEFUNDED OR DISBANDED, but arrest those that SUPPORT them and are only exercising their constitutional rights or committing much more minor and benign offenses. No law should be broken, but why arrest one group and ignore the larger worse group.

Now before you say they were told to stand down, I say BS. No mayor or chief will fire the whole force if they get some balls and do the right thing. When are our officers gonna say, we had enough and enforce the laws and tell pols to pound sand. When will police stand for the constitution and their oaths to protect and serve.

What I hear and see online and in conversation is people are afraid the police are becoming the new brown shirts of the liberal politicians and really are not friends of democracy. I understand they want their paycheck, but maybe better to do the right thing then live a life of lies.

Sorry for rant but, as son of former policeman and with police in family, it worries me where this is going.
  #2  
Old 08-05-2020, 07:37 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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The theme of your question, overall, is a good one. And I hope we get some fair and balance views from Police-Proes here who are our friends, who share our common passion for 2A, the Constitution, and the Rule-of-Law.

As a start, I would say, it appears that the "standing-down" of protecting those who are in the cross-hairs of the Lefty-Marxist-Mob and just plain gangs like in Chicago, seems to be limited to lefty districts. That is a good thing, relatively speaking.

And yes, they are "just following orders", and as you point out that is not a good reason. These cops in these lefty districts need to do more to stand up for the rule of law. If not now, when? No one is exempt from doing the right thing. There have been some chiefs in some lefty districts speaking up a little. But it is a weak-push-back against their Lefty "Master's".

It is a terribly tough job these cops have, especially in these Lefty-Hell-Holes, thank God they are there, even in their diminished capacity. And some have gone against their Lefty Politicians who rule them. But as a group, they need to do more, IMO. Not sure where all the various police unions are on this issue in these big Lefty-cities - they should be taking the lead here coordinating the push back, maybe they are as corrupt as the Lefty Politician, I don't know.

As an example, that message from the Minneapolis Police the other day advising American Citizens to "give-in" to criminals, give them whatever that want, was appalling, un-American, and immoral. Same crap going on in Seattle, Portland, and other big Lefty-Cities.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2020, 08:15 AM
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The Police are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I agree that what is happening is confusing. However, I believe that the Police Union has endorsed President Trump. With that, maybe there will be some unification of Police thought and procedures, and the Police will be allowed to enforce the law, and not the whims of liberal Mayors and liberal Governors.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:57 AM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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In most of these Leftist run hellholes being a cop pays pretty good.

Most cops aren't going to risk their job/benefits/pension by running afoul of what they're told to do.

Also, I suspect, that many of the new hires tend to support those on the Left.

When the **** hits the fan there are going to be Oath Keepers and Oath Breakers.

We can only hope there are more keepers than breakers.

In my mind the Oath Breakers are some of the lowest forms of life and should be eliminated at every chance.
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:33 PM
DrkBlue DrkBlue is offline
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1) Where do you get news? How many cops have you personally talked to who were suited up between 25 May - 4 July?

2) If you were pro-police and pro-law and order, how many many potentially violent protests did you attend or provide silent overwatch at during the disorder?

My opinion is tens of thousands of PEACE officers have faced a rough few months.

I also think that these type of posts indicate the Trump re-election campaign is in deep trouble. 10,000 people will show up to throw feces at federal officers in Portland, but one arrest undermines law enforcement support? Does not bode well.
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:52 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Originally Posted by DrkBlue View Post
1) Where do you get news? How many cops have you personally talked to who were suited up between 25 May - 4 July?

2) If you were pro-police and pro-law and order, how many many potentially violent protests did you attend or provide silent overwatch at during the disorder?

My opinion is tens of thousands of PEACE officers have faced a rough few months.

I also think that these type of posts indicate the Trump re-election campaign is in deep trouble. 10,000 people will show up to throw feces at federal officers in Portland, but one arrest undermines law enforcement support? Does not bode well.
1. I use many outlets, AmericaOne News, Fox, etc. I see headlines and articles from numerous papers. Lately I have been focusing on youtube channels that show raw videos. I have personally spoken to a handful of police. But what does that matter, there are news articles all over of police doing nothing to one group of protesters while arresting those that support them and violating their constitutional rights.

The Liberty Hangout Youtube channel has great video of police asking her to not confront protesters, but when protesters go up to her police do NOTHING.

2. I attended zero riots this year. I was in downtown DC and attended Trumps inauguration and saw first had how Antifa and protesters ASSUALTED Trump supporters with COPs 20 feet and they AND they did NOTHING. I had to even run an Antifa guy down and grab back the MAGA hat he stole off my sons head. Police were as useless as cake decorations.

I did go to the 2A demonstration in Richmond VA where 1,000's of pro-2A people protested....PEACEFULLY. COPs were relaxed and reported everything went well.

I agree Trump might be in trouble based on the inmates running the asylum. But why are police not protecting people and property? Why can't uniformed officers tell superiors...no they will not arrest that couple or person who are protecting their property, or they will not arrest that old couple sitting on beach away from others because Governor closed beach, or they will not arrest that NJ gym owner that wants to open his business? But it's OK to torch, terrorize and assualt if targets are not the preferred race or political persuasion?

This is not Venezuela....or is it?????
  #7  
Old 08-05-2020, 03:38 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Only way Trump can (possibly) loose is if the mail in ballots leads to massive fraud. And that is possible. But anyone thinking a fair election will have Joe Biden as next pres is watching CNN too much...American's want more law and order NOT less. Trump is the only candidate who stands for Cops and L&O...Trump deployed the Feds in the most critical areas with success. I don't think Trump and the Federal officers are what anyone is talking about in this thread, we are talking about the Lefty Run cities where police are taking a "knee" to the Marxist-mob based on the wishes of their political-masters in office...Police support is growing in most areas, not diminishing, because of the riots.
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Old 08-05-2020, 05:17 PM
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Deploying FEDS to fed-property? Fine. Feds to replace local LEO? Um, if that's the case then the feds should have been ARRESTING the mayor, chief/commisioner, the local pols - and even the governors. WHY? Because they are seditious, treasonous, oath-breaking marxists and all need to be arrested, arraigned, tried and hanged.

You take the money for The Job, but refuse to do it? You subvert your office, oaths, BOR, Constitution and abuse We, The People? Hang.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2020, 05:34 PM
RPB1953 RPB1953 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post
1. I use many outlets, AmericaOne News, Fox, etc. I see headlines and articles from numerous papers. Lately I have been focusing on youtube channels that show raw videos. I have personally spoken to a handful of police. But what does that matter, there are news articles all over of police doing nothing to one group of protesters while arresting those that support them and violating their constitutional rights.

The Liberty Hangout Youtube channel has great video of police asking her to not confront protesters, but when protesters go up to her police do NOTHING.

2. I attended zero riots this year. I was in downtown DC and attended Trumps inauguration and saw first had how Antifa and protesters ASSUALTED Trump supporters with COPs 20 feet and they AND they did NOTHING. I had to even run an Antifa guy down and grab back the MAGA hat he stole off my sons head. Police were as useless as cake decorations.

I did go to the 2A demonstration in Richmond VA where 1,000's of pro-2A people protested....PEACEFULLY. COPs were relaxed and reported everything went well.

I agree Trump might be in trouble based on the inmates running the asylum. But why are police not protecting people and property? Why can't uniformed officers tell superiors...no they will not arrest that couple or person who are protecting their property, or they will not arrest that old couple sitting on beach away from others because Governor closed beach, or they will not arrest that NJ gym owner that wants to open his business? But it's OK to torch, terrorize and assualt if targets are not the preferred race or political persuasion?

This is not Venezuela....or is it?????
I agree with this, and Bluesdog's original post in their entirety, especially the question of why the police can't just look the other way when it comes to closed beaches and people protecting themselves and their property.

My grandfather, father, and father-in-law, were all Chicago policemen. I can't imagine any one of them hassling decent people,exercising their constitutional rights, no matter what their despotic bosses thought about it.
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Old 08-05-2020, 06:50 PM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post
I hope this isn't too controversial or inappropriate but it revolves around a changing dynamic that I wonder if our police recognize.

During Covid and the BLM Riots, police in many many instances have sat on their hands and done nothing while property was destroyed, assaults and intimidation occurred, and many other crimes, some felonies happened right in front of them. Angry mobs ran unchecked and business destroyed with police doing nothing, zero, zilch. Not all police and not all communities but it is so bad the major media will not even show the videos as they cover up these facts.

So, if police do nothing in face of lawlessness from those that hate them, why do they then arrest those on the side of the police for issues as minor as writing Pro-life slogans with chalk? Or arrest a couple for protecting their property and ignore those breaking into the private property. Or arrest those for not wearing mask while not arresting rioters for not social distancing or maskes?

Why do police refuse to enforce laws against rioters and those THAT WANT THEM DEFUNDED OR DISBANDED, but arrest those that SUPPORT them and are only exercising their constitutional rights or committing much more minor and benign offenses. No law should be broken, but why arrest one group and ignore the larger worse group.

Now before you say they were told to stand down, I say BS. No mayor or chief will fire the whole force if they get some balls and do the right thing. When are our officers gonna say, we had enough and enforce the laws and tell pols to pound sand. When will police stand for the constitution and their oaths to protect and serve.

What I hear and see online and in conversation is people are afraid the police are becoming the new brown shirts of the liberal politicians and really are not friends of democracy. I understand they want their paycheck, but maybe better to do the right thing then live a life of lies.

Sorry for rant but, as son of former policeman and with police in family, it worries me where this is going.
I think you mistakingly think cops can do whatever they want, when they want. No question about it, a lot of these inner city Departments have been told not to arrest rioters. I'm sure they wanted to do painful things to those rioters who burned all of those police cars to the ground. Not to mention, when rioters are acting that badly, committing those sorts of crimes, the force used it going to be up there, and thats the whole reason why we are where we are.

I have a lot more I'd like to add, but I'm just gonna let it go. Not that your post is bad, but just about the whole situation.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:25 PM
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I think you mistakingly think cops can do whatever they want, when they want. No question about it, a lot of these inner city Departments have been told not to arrest rioters. I'm sure they wanted to do painful things to those rioters who burned all of those police cars to the ground. Not to mention, when rioters are acting that badly, committing those sorts of crimes, the force used it going to be up there, and thats the whole reason why we are where we are.

I have a lot more I'd like to add, but I'm just gonna let it go. Not that your post is bad, but just about the whole situation.
I think that is a very wise choice. And, I think you're right about many line officers ordered to stand down watching their departments' cars burn - they would like to respond in an "appropriate way" but can't.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:46 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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I think that is a very wise choice. And, I think you're right about many line officers ordered to stand down watching their departments' cars burn - they would like to respond in an "appropriate way" but can't.
But why can’t they? I am not trying to be difficult, but what is more important than upholding the oath they took? Why can’t they break rank and just arrest those people.

Several mention “liberal big city” departments, but how do I trust my suburban county police to do the right thing if they are told to stand down or arrest someone protecting their family or property from the mob? Who is their loyalty to, the citizens they swore to protect or the politicians and appointed Chiefs looking for votes?

I was told by a couple of police they just want to go home safe to family every night. I respect that, but I don’t really think most people join the force to just punch a clock. And if they only want a paycheck with morality stripped from their actions then maybe they are in wrong line of work.

How can we define a “police officer” as “good” if he/she looks the other way when laws are broken, but arrest those exercising their constitutional rights, or those trying to protect themselves and family from the mobs?

Personally, I think every police officer should walk off the job and not go back until politicians beg them back with proper support. No way can the police chiefs fire the whole department.

Sadly things may get worse after the November election. If true, what side will the police be on? If the last 3 months are any indication, I fear for my community.
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:26 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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There was at least one officer of some rank who went against his political masters wishes...The story was on fox about 2 weeks ago, if I can find a link later I'll post it...It was either in Seattle or Portland (or maybe even some other Lefty-Hell-Hole-city) the Cop seemed to be in control of other cops so maybe he was a Lt. or something...Anyway, some right leaning group was counter protesting Antifa and the cops were ordered to stand down...The Cop in charge refuse the order and said it was because the right leaning group would have gotten the crap beat out of them based on numbers and the armament Antifa had...That is a hero-cop in leadership position!

Edit: Found the link, it was Denver another Lefty Hell-Hole, and the Right group was marching for PRO Law enforcement!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-po...and-down-order

Excerpt: He said that one lieutenant refused to follow that order and kept his officers at the rally.

“That’s the only reason this thing didn’t get worse, because somebody broke rank and decided to not retreat,” Rogers said. “And they stayed so they could provide some assistance.”

End Excerpt.

This women, a Conservative advacote who appers on for often was there also, her post:

Michelle Malkin
@michellemalkin
Here's where BLM bitches attacked several women on stage. We were sprayed in our faces w/aerosol string, which @kyleclark thinks is hilarious. BLM girl takes off mask & lay

---

This is an important subject, I am glad the OP posted it, we need more Hero-Cops in these liberal Crap holes...I don't have to tell anyone here what kind of slippery slope this can lead to when cops, ordered or not, fail to protect the innocent and leave them to the will of the Mob. This has happen in many countries through time and it never a good outcome...
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:41 AM
rangertrace rangertrace is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post
But why can’t they? I am not trying to be difficult, but what is more important than upholding the oath they took? Why can’t they break rank and just arrest those people.

Several mention “liberal big city” departments, but how do I trust my suburban county police to do the right thing if they are told to stand down or arrest someone protecting their family or property from the mob? Who is their loyalty to, the citizens they swore to protect or the politicians and appointed Chiefs looking for votes?

I was told by a couple of police they just want to go home safe to family every night. I respect that, but I don’t really think most people join the force to just punch a clock. And if they only want a paycheck with morality stripped from their actions then maybe they are in wrong line of work.

How can we define a “police officer” as “good” if he/she looks the other way when laws are broken, but arrest those exercising their constitutional rights, or those trying to protect themselves and family from the mobs?

Personally, I think every police officer should walk off the job and not go back until politicians beg them back with proper support. No way can the police chiefs fire the whole department.

Sadly things may get worse after the November election. If true, what side will the police be on? If the last 3 months are any indication, I fear for my community.

Because they (we) need our jobs to pay the bills.
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:43 AM
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I will try to shed a little light on the profession of law enforcement without inflaming this issue.

I have stood in the line of riot shields with bags of piss being thrown at me and watched crimes being committed. I stood my ground and held the line even when I wanted in the worst way to break out and grab one of the criminals committing crimes in front of me.

I have stood in the back of the line and given orders to the front line to remain in place. Some times ignoring the little crimes is part of a larger picture. As much as it sucks!

Line officers in law enforcement depend on their leaders to have a clear and concise picture of the goals and vision of where their organization is going in general, and large scale incidents in particular. When bags of piss and bottles of gas are breaking around you, that trust in your leadership and their vision of the big picture is a difficult thing to maintain. But you hold the line as it is your DUTY.

I worked for about twelve months for an organization that the CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) did not have my faith in his leadership. I left and went to work somewhere that I did believe in the vision and mission. My moral compass was correct as that CLEO went to federal prison convicted of 49 out of 50 different charges.

In my mind I cannot envision abandoning a police precinct to criminals but I was not there in Seattle or Minneapolis when it happened. I feel for the line staff in both of those places.

I encourage all of us to be a part of the political process and be heard. Also vote!

The world is a crazy place right now!
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post

Sadly things may get worse after the November election. If true, what side will the police be on? If the last 3 months are any indication, I fear for my community.
In the Liberal-Crap Holes we have no indication they will be on the right side at this point, even though we may have an exception or 2 (as I posted above) to date...I think in the republican districts they will be though, lets hope and pray. I say that because of the great success of the Sanctuary 2A movement in the republican districts throughout America.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:51 AM
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I would only add that indirectly, the boots on the ground who do as ordered and stand down are still serving, in a way. By not stopping the chaos created by Leftists, they are showing the world who these people are, and how the world will be if they get their way politically. This may well have a big positive effect in November. Not only at the national level, but also there may be upsets at the state and city levels, ousting the politicians who enable the rioting.

So some pain now may well result in good things later on. Maybe in the Very Big Picture, this is how things should be. All of North America would still be a British holding if it were not for the heavy-handedness of George III on the colonials.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:02 AM
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The police are put into an impossible situation. Like the military, they're trained to follow the orders of their commanders. They can't ignore orders, or they'd risk being fired. Unfortunately for the police in many locations, their commanders are liberal, corrupt mayors and governors. It's not the fault of the police. It's the freaking voters who elected those GD idiots.

Tom, I'm with you. I was typing my post while you were typing yours.

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Old 08-06-2020, 08:52 AM
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Being a LEO is an impossible job these days. The time spent monday morning quarterbacking there actions would be better spent praying for their safety.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:30 AM
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being a leo is an impossible job these days. The time spent monday morning quarterbacking there actions would be better spent praying for their safety.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:52 AM
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I would only add that indirectly, the boots on the ground who do as ordered and stand down are still serving, in a way. By not stopping the chaos created by Leftists, they are showing the world who these people are, and how the world will be if they get their way politically. This may well have a big positive effect in November. Not only at the national level, but also there may be upsets at the state and city levels, ousting the politicians who enable the rioting.

So some pain now may well result in good things later on. Maybe in the Very Big Picture, this is how things should be. All of North America would still be a British holding if it were not for the heavy-handedness of George III on the colonials.
That is a good one my Friend :-) and the riots will certainly help Trump win as I also have been stating for some time...I think everyone here is PRO-Police in Spades, but I think for a realistic discussion on the OP's "question" one needs to put themselves in the shoe's of good people that live in the Lefty-Hell-Holes. There are still tons of them. And not all of them voted for the Marxist-mayors. They (rightly so) should expect fair protection by Police in these Lefty Hell-Holes.

IMO, good people and good politician's in our country should be setting the bar much higher for Cops in these Lefty-hell-holes and ask that more Cops act like the Lt. in Denver (I posted above) who didn't stand-down and told his Lefty-Bosses to Go xxxx themselves. Lives are at stake, "just following orders" may be a reason but it is not an excuse.

I would like to see POTUS speak to this more specifically, it would certainly help his re-election.
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:14 PM
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"I vuz chust following orders" was a common defense at the Nuremberg Trials.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:24 PM
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"I vuz chust following orders" was a common defense at the Nuremberg Trials.
And your point?
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:11 PM
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The 'point' is: it didn't fly in Nuremberg, and it doesn't fly today.
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:47 PM
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I'm not sure how to start this post since this is my third attempt. So this time, no introduction to frame my comments.

Some things to understand:

Police Chiefs in general are appointed by the highest political body in the "city"!

The County Sheriffs in general are elected by the people!

Beside swearing to uphold the Constitution and all laws LEO's also must follow General Orders or similar policies and procedures that define the chain of command and what happens if orders are refused!

What if a LEO makes an arrest when told to stand down? Where does the LEO take the arrestee? The local jail won't take them. What if the arrestee gets injured when told to stand down?

Now that's out of the way!
Soros and Blumberg know exactly where the weakest and easiest to manipulate city leaders are and where the vulnerability is for the "5hit storm" they want to start whether its the 2A, Religion, Labor, Environment or Race! Marxist know exactly how to manipulate people for their end game! They also have the money to buy protestors and insurgents. Also Look at the demographics of where this is all going on!

90% of the population is not being exposed to overt Marxist agenda on the ground! Some splinter groups have tried "mob rule" in outlying counties and were shut down almost immediately with overwhelming show of patriotic force and city /county law enforcement support.

Right before I retired 15years ago from one of the largest county agencies on the west coast we were discussing the then current political situation. I stated that sometime during their careers first responders would be dispatched with a clipboard and a can of pepper spray. They laughed!

Please try to understand the role of law enforcement today in these cities. It sucks to know what needs to be done and how to do it but held back by spineless politicians.

Blue live matter, but the job sucks!
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 08-06-2020 at 11:58 PM.
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