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  #126  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:28 PM
j2kool j2kool is offline
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As an owner of DW and a 1911 fan boy....you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson

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  #127  
Old 08-12-2020, 05:04 PM
NCGunz NCGunz is offline
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Originally Posted by j2kool View Post
As an owner of DW and a 1911 fan boy....you can't go wrong with Dan Wesson

I have never shot a DW, but I have felt the gun's slide and how it feels. It is smooth and very well made. I am seriously thinking of getting the ECO for carrying. 3/5" barrel version in 9mm. I am comparing it to WC X9S and Kimber Micro 9mm's. Any experience with those guns?
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  #128  
Old 08-13-2020, 06:14 AM
glider glider is offline
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I think you're comparing apples to oranges.
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  #129  
Old 08-13-2020, 06:51 AM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
Ummm, firing pin? Machined flush?
Joe
Yeah, I was scratching my head on that too. I can't find the exact Mil Spec at this moment, but my recollection was it was something like .020-,030" protrution from the firing pin stop.

I knew a LAPD cop that carried a rusty old Colt Commercial gun that I first saw when he was holding to a purse snatcher's head one day, behind my old machine shop. After the paddy wagon came for the dude, I asked to look at his 1911. It was rough, and looked like it could use some TLC. So, I told him I'd take a look at it. In the shop, while disassembling it, I noted that the firing pin was flush with the firing pin stop. I pulled the bullet and powder from a live round and fed the primed case in the chamber, pulled the trigger and .... snick. That was it. No bang. He turned white. Apparently, he'd bet his life on that gun at some point. Not having spare parts around the shop, I turned the step back on the firing pin to give about .03 protrusion and reassembled it. Same test. Bang!
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  #130  
Old 08-13-2020, 02:53 PM
kitchencounsel kitchencounsel is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911Momo View Post
I’d buy a SA if the wife is on you about spending. Their cheap gun is made in the USA with the same internals as their good guns.
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Originally Posted by Roscoe53 View Post
...at your price point I would heed the advice of NoExpert and find a Springfield, take the extra money and have a competent gunsmith hone the trigger... It will make all the difference in how you shoot the gun.
Those comments by Momo and Roscoe remind me of an approach I often take with friends who don't have the cash to spend on a fancy gun, which is to start with the best basic 1911 you can afford and then make improvements as your budget allows.
I don't mean buying fancier parts, but by putting in the work or paying a gun smith to bring your pistol up to a higher functional standard. Fix first, upgrade later.

Those of you who don't work on your own guns probably don't appreciate the profound improvement in function and performance that can be added to almost any decent 1911 by the following work. Many of you who do this work or at least understand what the gunsmiths are doing can skip the rest, but...

True, trigger work is important but it's more about eliminating friction than about "honing the trigger" per se. While you have to make sure the trigger bow flats are not binding in the frame slots, that's just a matter of making sure the bow isn't deformed and that there aren't any high points. By the same token, the bow slots in the frame must be flat and true with no burrs, etc. to bind on the trigger bow. And the rear of the trigger bow needs to be polished so the disconnector can move smoothly. All of that only takes a few minutes to check and correct if necessary.

All the trigger does is move the sear; what many people think of as a "trigger job" is actually making sure the mating surfaces of the sear and hammer are correctly profiled. The interaction of the sear and the hammer is the core of what makes the difference between an ordinary and custom 1911. The outwardly visible aspects such as the beavertail safety and fancy sights, while they are part of the package, aren't nearly as critical as a properly set-up action.

Squaring off the sear engagement surface (primary angle) so that it is parallel with the hammer engagement hooks gives consistent action and is necessary for a consistent, crisp release. Adding a proper bevel (secondary angle) is what gives that release the proper let-off for that "breaks like glass" feel.

The reason 1911 hammer hooks are called that is that the two hooks have little turned up lips at the end. This was presumably done way back when because the 1911 was a combat arm and the military didn't want accidental discharges, so the little lips served to keep the sear in place until the trigger was given a proper pull by the soldier. So in any action job, the trigger hooks are squared off so that the lips are removed, the hooks have a certain height and the sear engagement area is a true 90 degrees. This allows a properly prepared sear to move freely.

That's the big stuff, but there are other minor things that must be done for a properly set-up 1911:
All the flat bearing surfaces, such as the engagement surfaces of the disconnector and trigger, have to be polished.
Another one that people don't think about is the top end of the disconnector and the depression in the slide. That interface affects the interaction between the disconnector and the slide; polishing those surfaces makes operation, including racking the slide, much smoother.

The thumb safety needs to be addressed as well. First, the "plate" portion of the safety must be verified to be in a plane exactly 90 degrees from the axis of the pin - and the pin must be straight - or it will never function properly. With that out of the way, the lug that blocks the hammer needs to be shaped properly both in terms of size and shape, and the groove at the bottom has to be sized to clear the frame. With that out of the way, the little divot in the safety upon which the safety detent rides has to be shaped in such a way that the detent will snap into place easily but firmly. That is, after a certain point, a matter of user preference.

The grip safety needs to be checked for freedom of movement and proper function.

There are other important things do do, such as make sure the slide stop pin is dimensioned and profiled correctly so the barrel goes into battery with the barrel lugs fitting on the stop pin squarely and consistently. But that's accuracy, not action.

Didn't really intend to go off into a gunsmithing seminar, but if you tote it up that's only about a half-dozen main tasks that go into transforming an entry-level "production" 1911 into something that really runs like a much more expensive pistol. You do all that stuff to a basic Springfield or R-1 and you won't believe the difference.

Again, they're called 1911s for a reason. Back then labor was the order of the day and hand fitting was not only common, it was such a part of the routine that it wasn't even thought of. Only now when machines are computer-controlled, automated and precise do we see labor as an added expense. Is the 1911 an anachronism? Probably. So are old pickup trucks, but both are in high demand for a very good reason. For those of you who are thinking that 1911s needing all that hand fitting are a design deficiency, I say "You don't get it, go buy a Glock."

Last edited by kitchencounsel; 08-13-2020 at 03:00 PM.
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  #131  
Old 08-13-2020, 08:18 PM
j2kool j2kool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCGunz View Post
I have never shot a DW, but I have felt the gun's slide and how it feels. It is smooth and very well made. I am seriously thinking of getting the ECO for carrying. 3/5" barrel version in 9mm. I am comparing it to WC X9S and Kimber Micro 9mm's. Any experience with those guns?
It's close to owning a semi custom gun, you won't regret it DW is a proven brand
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  #132  
Old 08-13-2020, 08:23 PM
j2kool j2kool is offline
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  #133  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:37 AM
JLA956 JLA956 is offline
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There are quite a few good production 1911s out there but for me the S/A TRP Operator provides the best bang for the buck. It's reliable, shoots well and I trust my life with it. You could get one at a pretty decent price earlier this year but not sure now what they're going for.
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  #134  
Old 08-14-2020, 04:59 AM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
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Originally Posted by Donn75B View Post
Look at Fusion Firearms. <snip> Under $1500 will get you a custom quality 1911.
Uh...no. Their Freedom series are nowhere near "custom quality", and their Pro series start at $2600 and go up from there. Fusion has a long and illustrious track record of hit-or-miss with the QC on their pistols. I would never choose one over a proven brand like Dan Wesson.
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Last edited by Flight Medic; 08-14-2020 at 05:27 AM.
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  #135  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:47 AM
Austin_TX Austin_TX is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn75B View Post
Look at Fusion Firearms. <snip> Under $1500 will get you a custom quality 1911.
Uh...no. Their Freedom series are nowhere near "custom quality", and their Pro series start at $2600 and go up from there. Fusion has a long and illustrious track record of hit-or-miss with the QC on their pistols. I would never choose one over a proven brand like Dan Wesson.
This, emphatically.

I’d just add that nothing Fusion makes is anywhere near “custom quality,” if we’re talking about the work of well-regarded custom pistolsmiths or semi-custom shops.
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  #136  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:30 AM
trenace2 trenace2 is offline
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Originally Posted by covid-1911 View Post
Instead of doing it right the first time, manufacturers in the US simply have their customer do the quality check. Well, it helps reduce production cost when you don't have to pay a dedicated quality control (QC) technician. But manufacturers from other countries like Philippines can afford the wages of QC techs, and they know not to skimp on quality if they want to make a name in the US market. That's why I tried my "luck" on a Rock Island 1911.
Not actually a 1911 but still a Rock Island that they call a 1911 type: I would say my Baby Rock 380 with its thirteen pound, 4 ounce trigger pull pretty much disproves rigorous QC at Armscor.

Not only that, to date their attitude and position is that this is not a warranty issue. EDIT: They have now accepted for warranty return but may return as heavy as 9 lb and will return no ligher than 7, going by what they have said. In other words, delivered as horrible, will be returned somewhere between poor and bad,

I have never seen anyone* marveling at the fit and quality of RIA parts. Not saying they are trash either, it's just that when someone is asking for the best at about $1500, RIA is an unusual nomination and is this really from close examination of how many of them are made?

I think it is also unwarranted to assume US manufacturers do not pay any QC technicians, or that foreign manufacturers in general do more QC than US manufacturers in general. What would be the basis other than guess?

*Well there's a Youtube "thumbs way up" influencer who does say great fit and finish, and it could be that some paid gunwriters have. But I meant other than influencers.

Last edited by trenace2; 08-17-2020 at 08:14 PM.
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  #137  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:47 AM
Bayou52 Bayou52 is offline
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I just acquired a new Springfield SS RO Target. For a production pistol, it seems very nice. The slide fit is tight, and there is good tension on the barrel bushing. Cost was about $1K or so. It was ordered back in early February but the order was filled only a couple weeks ago under prevailing circumstances.

The RO trigger break is crisp with no creep and it breaks at about 5.25 pounds. I particularly like the adjustable rear sight. Accuracy is quite good. Even for an average shooter like myself, it holds nice, compact groups. So, far I've shot it at 15 and 20 yards.

I also have a Ruger SR1911 that was bought about 3 years ago with about 10K rounds down the tube so far.

In comparing the two pistols, both seem to be very reliable. The Ruger has not had a stoppage of any sort for at least the past 5K rounds. The RO is still in break-in at about 200 rounds. So, far it has had 2 failures to return to battery one shot apart. I added more lube at that point, and have not any further stoppages as of yet.

The accuracy is noticeably better in the Springfield RO than the SR1911, as I can hold tighter groups off-hand with the RO at both 15 and 20 yards.

Just some observations...

Bayou52
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  #138  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:08 PM
texas solo texas solo is online now
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After much inspection & handling, I bought a 5" American Classic, made by Metro Arms in the Philippines. I had never considered a foreign 1911 until this one. This NOT an Armscor pistol.
No comparison in quality.
Pistol is extremely smooth & tight. Trigger is excellant, as is accuracy. Feeds any ammo.
At under $700 you can't beat it.
When I decided on a 1911 for CCW, I again looked at Metro Arms. I got a 4" dual tone 45
that is of the same quality as my 5". Runs 100%.

Most folks see the crap Armscor is producing and write off the Philippine guns. Metro Arms is NOT RIA OR CITADEL.
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  #139  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:16 PM
Bayou52 Bayou52 is offline
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Glad you got what you were looking for, as did I.
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  #140  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:09 PM
Austin_TX Austin_TX is offline
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Why do people keep suggesting RIA, Ruger, Metro Arms, et al. to someone looking for the best production 1911 he can buy for up to $1,500? Come on, people. The OP is looking for a different class of gun.
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  #141  
Old 08-18-2020, 02:08 AM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
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Originally Posted by Austin_TX View Post
Why do people keep suggesting RIA, Ruger, Metro Arms, et al. to someone looking for the best production 1911 he can buy for up to $1,500? <snip>
Because you have all that extra money for mags and ammo. LOL

I wonder the exact same thing. Its tantamount to asking recommendations for best sports car for $100,000 and someone suggesting a Nisssn 370Z. &#x1f604;
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  #142  
Old 08-18-2020, 11:50 AM
Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is online now
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I don't buy mass-market 1911s, but keep hearing good things about the Dan Wesson. Have not heard anything bad about SA, but some bad things about Kimber. Colt is also good.

Unfortunately, due to the price-point of all these guns, expect some cast and MIM parts. You get what you pay for.

Stay away from anything not American-made, for a variety of reasons.
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