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  #126  
Old 07-29-2020, 09:40 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatanka View Post
I don't buy the 9th argument. Good luck.
Perhaps a little deeper understanding of the Consitutional Convention debates, the letters between many of the founders, and the refusal of some states to ratify the Constitution without a BoR would be helpful. I will attempt to be a bit concise with this, as I do not want to hijack the thread.

If one looks at the Constitutional Convention debates, and the propositions and resistance to attaching a BoR, then a more comprehensive understanding of the 9th amendment can be gleaned. Many at the debates demanded a BoR to place very definite restrictions of what the new government had power to control/regulate, reasoning that governments are administrated by men who become corrupt by power; those in opposition reasoned that it would, by default, leave any rights that were not enumerated at the whim of those in power at the time (including and especially in the future) to grant or revoke.

The 9th amendment was the compromise that led to full support of a BoR by enumerating the rights that they wanted spelled out according to their experience at the time, and anything that might be questioned in the future, to be rights retained by the people and requiring a later amendment to limit future "power-hungry" congresses from infringing upon.

Having said all that, the SC has engaged (for a long time) in legislating from the bench, and has turned the table on the founders by siding with government infringement until an amendment is passed protecting a specific right. The judicial system activists have ignored, whether from intent or from ignorance, the meaning of the 9th amendment - and gotten away with it because so many of the American people have not read and attempted to understand the Constitution and BoR. This is my personal observation, as common citizens were expected to evaluate and come to their own conclusions (based on historical writings of the founders and their efforts to establish a society of liberty-loving citizens).
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  #127  
Old 07-29-2020, 11:42 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
Perhaps a little deeper understanding of the Consitutional Convention debates, the letters between many of the founders, and the refusal of some states to ratify the Constitution without a BoR would be helpful. I will attempt to be a bit concise with this, as I do not want to hijack the thread.

If one looks at the Constitutional Convention debates, and the propositions and resistance to attaching a BoR, then a more comprehensive understanding of the 9th amendment can be gleaned. Many at the debates demanded a BoR to place very definite restrictions of what the new government had power to control/regulate, reasoning that governments are administrated by men who become corrupt by power; those in opposition reasoned that it would, by default, leave any rights that were not enumerated at the whim of those in power at the time (including and especially in the future) to grant or revoke.

The 9th amendment was the compromise that led to full support of a BoR by enumerating the rights that they wanted spelled out according to their experience at the time, and anything that might be questioned in the future, to be rights retained by the people and requiring a later amendment to limit future "power-hungry" congresses from infringing upon.

Having said all that, the SC has engaged (for a long time) in legislating from the bench, and has turned the table on the founders by siding with government infringement until an amendment is passed protecting a specific right. The judicial system activists have ignored, whether from intent or from ignorance, the meaning of the 9th amendment - and gotten away with it because so many of the American people have not read and attempted to understand the Constitution and BoR. This is my personal observation, as common citizens were expected to evaluate and come to their own conclusions (based on historical writings of the founders and their efforts to establish a society of liberty-loving citizens).
Bingo.
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  #128  
Old 07-30-2020, 12:24 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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There is no "argument to buy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatanka View Post
I don't buy the 9th argument. Good luck.
It is all spelled out pretty clearly. There just flat out is no argument period.

As Grandpas50AE so eloquently explains. Some would seek to see otherwise, but the facts remain the same.
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  #129  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:20 AM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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Originally Posted by Welder Guy View Post
The real trick however is trying to get the lifer politicians to stand by their oaths and actually OBEY and FOLLOW the Constitution.
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Originally Posted by longarm View Post
Hanging a few would help.
We don't need to go straight to the gallows. Perhaps tarring and feathering a few or maybe riding out of town on a rail?

The lowest form of humanity are those that take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution while planning to ignore/overturn it.

Those that do this should be summarily executed.
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  #130  
Old 07-30-2020, 11:16 AM
longarm longarm is offline
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Nope. Drag them up the steps and drop 'em. Publicly. Broadcast.

Meanwhile, I am starting to rethink Defund The Police...

It occurs to me that repealing about 12 tons of bull**** 2A infringements at the federal, state and local levels plus associated "safety", "restriction", "permission" social-nonsense, AND THEN "defund the police" about 50%, all boils down to "A Polite Society..."

Admittedly, this has been simmering in the hindbrain as I see news images of PD's and "established" dates... "Progress[ive]" does NOT equal BETTER.
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  #131  
Old 07-30-2020, 12:29 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is offline
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I like our police department, they do a good job catching the riffraff that spills out of the closest “progressive” town a few miles south. Defund the police is all about inner cities staying in their happy state of disfunction; drugs, assaults, robberies, shoot em ups, the lifestyle.
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  #132  
Old 07-30-2020, 12:56 PM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longarm View Post
Nope. Drag them up the steps and drop 'em. Publicly. Broadcast.

Meanwhile, I am starting to rethink Defund The Police...

It occurs to me that repealing about 12 tons of bull**** 2A infringements at the federal, state and local levels plus associated "safety", "restriction", "permission" social-nonsense, AND THEN "defund the police" about 50%, all boils down to "A Polite Society..."

Admittedly, this has been simmering in the hindbrain as I see news images of PD's and "established" dates... "Progress[ive]" does NOT equal BETTER.
I could see defunding the BATFE. But leave my local sheriff alone.
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  #133  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:06 AM
Jennifers Jennifers is offline
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Well the original idea is the commies will come for our ammo, like that is a new idea. Get a set of old American Riflemans (you can buy a CD of them for $15 off ebey) and read the 19teens/1920s/1930s/1940s gun control articles. This (or that, which ever) is NOT a new idea. Look at ANY anti-gun law, the demonrat/commies have been recycling the same bills for 100 years! If at first you don't succeed, just keep trying for the next 100 years!
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  #134  
Old 08-14-2020, 01:22 AM
Rumblur Rumblur is offline
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yeahbut.... this time they will have ALL the power to push it through. The difference is "back then" we had mostly sane country. The times have changed dramatically, now we're a country of Tide pod eaters and self loathing socialists. The sane citizen is FAST becoming the minority.

Those "back then" stories - look at it this way - back then everybody smoked and nobody would've stood for a mega high tobacco tax. And yet it happened without a whimper in 2009. Ammo will be no different.
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  #135  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:14 AM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumblur View Post
yeahbut.... this time they will have ALL the power to push it through. The difference is "back then" we had mostly sane country. The times have changed dramatically, now we're a country of Tide pod eaters and self loathing socialists. The sane citizen is FAST becoming the minority.

Those "back then" stories - look at it this way - back then everybody smoked and nobody would've stood for a mega high tobacco tax. And yet it happened without a whimper in 2009. Ammo will be no different.
Keep the faith. There are still many, many thousands who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

Just because most every celebrity and talking head is a dyed in the wool socialist freedom hater doesn't mean that a large percentage of the American public aren't what they have always been: hard working, freedom loving, patriots.
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  #136  
Old 08-14-2020, 11:06 AM
Phreddie30.06 Phreddie30.06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
Keep the faith. There are still many, many thousands who have not bowed the knee to Baal.



Just because most every celebrity and talking head is a dyed in the wool socialist freedom hater doesn't mean that a large percentage of the American public aren't what they have always been: hard working, freedom loving, patriots.
Lets just hope and pray that all these freedom lovers VOTE and continue to do so. Or else kiss 2A goodbye

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  #137  
Old 08-14-2020, 11:38 AM
Old Marine 2 Old Marine 2 is offline
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They are already background checking ammo purchased in California. They also have an approved list of hand guns. Think about this part. Today there are 800 hand guns on the list give or take a few. Every finish offered of the same model hand gun counts as one hand gun. ie, a Kimber offered in stainless, two tone or black would count as three guns.
A bill right now that says for every new one allowed on the list, three must be removed. It'll pass I'm sure. Every weapon in the state must be registered. ARs with evil features must be registered as assult weapons.
I won't even go into red flag laws that the governor bragged about on local Media.
Harris was AG here and helped create this mess of crap. They have the plan in place and working right now here in California.
I know people say I'd never live in California. Well folks you won't have to because California is coming to your state.
Electing Biden and Harris will certainly speed it up. But it's coming for your guns and ammo.
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  #138  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:57 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Today's announcement from the 9th Circuit court should put this thread to rest.

If large capacity magazines are protected by the Second Amendment then so is ammunition.

A tax specifically on ammo would be an easy challenge in court.
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  #139  
Old 08-14-2020, 01:35 PM
Old Marine 2 Old Marine 2 is offline
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Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
Today's announcement from the 9th Circuit court should put this thread to rest.

If large capacity magazines are protected by the Second Amendment then so is ammunition.

A tax specifically on ammo would be an easy challenge in court.
I haven't heard that the 9th circuit court had completed the review of the magazine laws here. But this voted on, second law was really place to remove grandfathered mags. I've lived here since 2004 and any mag holding more than 10 rds was outlawed in the state unless you had paperwork proving you owned them before the 1st ban went in to effect.
Just did a Google search on the new rulingand find nothing.
You say easy to challenge in court. The Mag law challenge has been going on since 2017. I don't call that easy. They were banned from sale before 2004. I wouldn't call that easy even if your info is correct.
So hay, just set back and relax.
But remember my words, California gun laws are coming to your state.
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  #140  
Old 08-14-2020, 01:57 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Marine 2 View Post
I haven't heard that the 9th circuit court had completed the review of the magazine laws here. But this voted on, second law was really place to remove grandfathered mags. I've lived here since 2004 and any mag holding more than 10 rds was outlawed in the state unless you had paperwork proving you owned them before the 1st ban went in to effect.
Just did a Google search on the new rulingand find nothing.
You say easy to challenge in court. The Mag law challenge has been going on since 2017. I don't call that easy. They were banned from sale before 2004. I wouldn't call that easy even if your info is correct.
So hay, just set back and relax.
But remember my words, California gun laws are coming to your state.
Here's the thread with the link to the announced ruling:
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1023016
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  #141  
Old 08-14-2020, 04:37 PM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Marine 2 View Post
I haven't heard that the 9th circuit court had completed the review of the magazine laws here. But this voted on, second law was really place to remove grandfathered mags. I've lived here since 2004 and any mag holding more than 10 rds was outlawed in the state unless you had paperwork proving you owned them before the 1st ban went in to effect.
Just did a Google search on the new rulingand find nothing.
You say easy to challenge in court. The Mag law challenge has been going on since 2017. I don't call that easy. They were banned from sale before 2004. I wouldn't call that easy even if your info is correct.
So hay, just set back and relax.
But remember my words, California gun laws are coming to your state.
No reason to search...but I can't understand how you missed it. Just open foxnews.com
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  #142  
Old 08-19-2020, 07:05 PM
NCGunz NCGunz is offline
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They can't really impact ammo's unless they change the laws. The production of ammos are made equally from overseas as much as within the states. There are too many munition companies and suppliers. Many ranges sell casing for pennies after they clean them. I am thinking of reloading in the future. I did the math and it comes to ~$0.10 per round for 9mm if I bulk up during times when supplies get back to normal.

I am thinking about stocking up around 20k ammos for range use next year and keep that inventory going.

Plus, you can control the quality of reloads this way.
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  #143  
Old 08-20-2020, 11:51 AM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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Originally Posted by NCGunz View Post
They can't really impact ammo's unless they change the laws. The production of ammos are made equally from overseas as much as within the states. There are too many munition companies and suppliers. Many ranges sell casing for pennies after they clean them. I am thinking of reloading in the future. I did the math and it comes to ~$0.10 per round for 9mm if I bulk up during times when supplies get back to normal.

I am thinking about stocking up around 20k ammos for range use next year and keep that inventory going.

Plus, you can control the quality of reloads this way.
Please use correct English. It's ammo, or ammunition. Not ammos. The sentence in bold makes NO sense. They don't make ammo from overseas. They use metals, powder and primers.

Ammo's What does the ammo possess?

Also your math is off unless you're going to cast your own bullets.

There is an excise tax of 10% on all ammo. All the Leftists/Liberals/Progressives would need to do is raise this excise tax to 50% or more.

This has already been proposed by some. Or they could just make it an additional flat dollar amount. Some localities have already done so.
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  #144  
Old 08-20-2020, 12:25 PM
1911_Bandit 1911_Bandit is offline
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They ARE likely to attempt to control ammo, yes, but in the last few days I think they have made their intent crystal clear. They are accepting the challenge to come and take them.
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