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  #101  
Old 05-05-2020, 10:31 AM
tipoc tipoc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Medicare pays +20% with a COVID19 diagnosis. They are also covering treating uninsured COVID19 patients....
So a patient comes in with flu- get paid X. Call it COVID19, get X+20%....
Are such things happening? Absolutely. Particularly with the redaction of non emergency or routine treatment, revenues are down. Like it or not, heath care is a business, and the bottom line matters. Medical billing, by and large, is an exercise in squeezing every possible penny from the billpayer, be it government or private.
No argument that the health care industry is profit driven. Stanford University Health Care (an extensive array or million dollar hospitals and labs, etc. connected to the University) just cut the pay by 18-20% of nurses and doctors, researchers, etc. and laid folks off in the non Covid facilities. This dealt a blow not only to the staff and hundreds of families but also to public health care for non-covid reasons. Like pregnancy.

Neither do I doubt that fraud is taking place in medicare and other billing because that is par for the course.

What I ain't sure about is what you allege...that the scale of claims of false covid-19 deaths is enough to seriously alter the death count.

tipoc
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  #102  
Old 05-05-2020, 12:16 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
No argument that the health care industry is profit driven. Stanford University Health Care (an extensive array or million dollar hospitals and labs, etc. connected to the University) just cut the pay by 18-20% of nurses and doctors, researchers, etc. and laid folks off in the non Covid facilities. This dealt a blow not only to the staff and hundreds of families but also to public health care for non-covid reasons. Like pregnancy.

Neither do I doubt that fraud is taking place in medicare and other billing because that is par for the course.

What I ain't sure about is what you allege...that the scale of claims of false covid-19 deaths is enough to seriously alter the death count.

tipoc
What I'm suggesting is that the reporting is grossly inaccurate- because the medical professionals don't KNOW, and don't bother (or don't have the resources) to finding out.
As a hypothetical: 84 y/o male, on maintenance chemo, comes in with a fever and respiratory issues. He dies 2 days later. No lab test is done. The CoD is essentially an assumption. Does the DR certiy the death as flu/pneumonia or COVID19? The symptoms are essentially the same....
Answer: Whichever pays better.

The bulk of COVID19 deaths are "presumed"- there is no lab confirmed diagnosis. Fever, body aches, coughing- its COVID19.
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  #103  
Old 05-05-2020, 02:38 PM
DrkBlue DrkBlue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
What I'm suggesting is that the reporting is grossly inaccurate- because the medical professionals don't KNOW, and don't bother (or don't have the resources) to finding out.
As a hypothetical: 84 y/o male, on maintenance chemo, comes in with a fever and respiratory issues. He dies 2 days later. No lab test is done. The CoD is essentially an assumption. Does the DR certiy the death as flu/pneumonia or COVID19? The symptoms are essentially the same....
Answer: Whichever pays better.

The bulk of COVID19 deaths are "presumed"- there is no lab confirmed diagnosis. Fever, body aches, coughing- its COVID19.
Here is an analogy. Alzheimer’s is effectively a diagnosis that is made just by symptoms. It is a commonly accepted diagnosis throughout the medical world, but generally no positive proof required. It is reportedly the sixth leading cause of death in the US. It does not require a test nor autopsy (in most cases) to be recorded as a cause/contributing of death. Does that make it “grossly inaccurate” to attribute thousands of deaths to a well recognized disorder?

COVID is a pandemic. Endemic across much of the US. Since we are way outside the normal influenza season and the rapid antigen testing is finding nearly 100% COVID vs. seasonal influenza, the death classification practice is the same as the last several decades. That is consistent. Respectfully, your argument is not consistent with existing practice.

** perhaps you have some evidence that the reporting going into the system of record (National Vital Statistics System) is being deliberately altered or have extensive experience as a medical examiner/pathologist. If so, that would be helpful to the discussion **

Staying on topic, a guy I knew passed away Sunday after a week on a ventilator. His cause of death was specifically attributed to non-COVID pneumonia. I am doubtful that “non-COVID” is truly accurate in his case, mostly because of the accuracy issues with the PCR testing and the continuing extreme shortages of test availability in my state. Regardless, Jack is dead. Arguing about the diagnosis and death recording strikes me as unnecessary to the victims and their families. YMMV.

Last edited by DrkBlue; 05-05-2020 at 03:54 PM.
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  #104  
Old 05-05-2020, 03:57 PM
pelikan800 pelikan800 is offline
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No, neither me nor my wife know anyone with COVID 19
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  #105  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:31 PM
NuJudge NuJudge is offline
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My brother and a Cousin have it. Weeks in ICU. In addition to the danger of death and debilitating injury, both are likely bankrupted by this.

One of my workers and one of the attorneys I work with regularly are dead of it.
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  #106  
Old 05-06-2020, 09:37 PM
tipoc tipoc is online now
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Drk Blue's contribution is on track.

I said earlier that I know personally people who have died of Covid 19.

I also know that the state of California has not been keeping track of the number of deaths in old folks homes or the cause of death. It was revealed when corpses began to pile up in a number of homes. The cause of the deaths had not been reported to either the families or the local or state government. Turned out the state had not kept up with the number of homes in the state. The virus had run rampant and the deaths under counted until the scandal broke. This was widely reported in the press.

That and other cases (actual reported facts) lead me to believe the that there may be an under count.

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; 05-06-2020 at 09:46 PM.
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  #107  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:08 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I had it for a couple of days early in the week.

But a couple of shots of Jaegermeister cleared it right up. No issues going forward.
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  #108  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:51 PM
Cranky CJ Cranky CJ is offline
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Seven weeks ago tested positive. Sick for a day and then fine. About 12 of those hours I was very uncomfortable, so my wife took me to the doctor. Quarantined for about 17 days. Took 4 days for the test to come back, stayed home for two weeks after that. Been back to work for four weeks now.
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  #109  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:54 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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No one I know or know of. But I can thing of many Democrats in Washington DC that I would love to see get it.
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  #110  
Old 05-08-2020, 08:52 PM
Q Tip Q Tip is offline
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My friend at work lost his father and grandfather to it in a week. Has other family hospitalized with it now. His father had been working in NY and had come home after falling ill.
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  #111  
Old 05-09-2020, 01:38 AM
epj epj is offline
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Last week a guy I knew died from it. This morning a very dear friend died from it. Covid 19 is real. You can poo poo it if you want, just stay the hell away from me!
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  #112  
Old 05-09-2020, 02:39 AM
wildphil wildphil is offline
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No one that I know has had the virus yet. But a couple of people that work for the same company as my wife have had it. And at least one of the people that do business with the company had died of COVID-19.

This virus is a strange one. With some people having the virus and not having any symptoms and then it killing others.
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  #113  
Old 05-10-2020, 04:44 PM
Brent Chambers Brent Chambers is offline
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One of our friends has recovered from it. He was hospitalized for 14 days. For four of those days he said he was essentially unaware of his surroundings. He was thinking about breathing and that's about it. He's 51, fit, healthy, all of that.

He's recovered and home now. His advice? Don't get it.
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  #114  
Old 05-10-2020, 08:34 PM
PASTORDW PASTORDW is offline
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I know about 5 that have it or had it. I had no face to face contact with any of them in the past few months, probably for the best now. Two of our personal friends caught it and she just died two days ago after 3 weeks on a ventilator. Her husband is still sick, but getting better. They had been carefully isolating themselves for 3 or 4 weeks and their son, a young guy that lived with them ran in and out with his buds and he got and infected them. I know 3 more that had it, 2 of which also died with it. Amazingly, only one of those that died were elderly and had other health problems This stuff is nothing to take lightly. I just advise people to take common sense precautions.

Sincerely,

PastorDW
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  #115  
Old 05-10-2020, 09:49 PM
Rumblur Rumblur is offline
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Thanks, everyone that took time to reply to this. I feel it is a cross section of mostly level thinking adults without agendas to lie or distort the truth. That's why I posted it here.

With that said, I have 2 friends:
1 - nurse in a nursing home/rehab facility in Hendersonville NC. As of 5/10/2020, no cases. They have a wing designated just for C19 patients, Corporate is foaming at the mouth to get some patients because they know it's going to be a cash cow. Being a secondary facility, they have very little to nothing in the way of protection.. she wasn't even issued a good mask till recently.

2 - a state employee that works with homebound medicaid recipients in western NC. Not a single case reported as of 5/10/2020
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  #116  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:56 PM
DrkBlue DrkBlue is offline
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Rumblur - lots of variation and a fair amount of luck on where the disease is impacting.

I saw some stories recently that seemed to add to the fabric of the story.

Wall Street Journal had a story titled “New York City Medical Examiner Doing Limited Coronavirus Testing on Dead”. The article describes how limited testing supplies and other resources will limit determining the COVID death toll, noting thousands of people have died at home in New York during the coronavirus outbreak. It includes this quote:
“Home deaths will be undercounted because testing is not available in some jurisdictions, like poor rural jurisdictions where they may not do much of an investigation,” said Dr. Sally Aiken, a Spokane, Wash.-based forensic pathologist and medical examiner, who is also president of the National Association of Medical Examiners.https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yor...ad-11589119200

In Chicago, the Cook County Medical Examiner's office is conducting a review of deaths dating back to November of last year to see if any previously recorded deaths may have been related to COVID before health officials publicly identified community transmission. The review will look at Deaths in their homes or were found on the street, or other instances in which the person's death fell under the jurisdiction of the county. It will not include people who died in hospitals, because doctors sign the death certificates of patients who die while hospitalized and the county is not notified.https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...virus/2268198/
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  #117  
Old 05-12-2020, 02:33 PM
rolomac rolomac is offline
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My 40 year old son who lives and works in Tokyo had it. Thank God he didn't call us until after he was over it because he would have worried us to death. He says he had the classic symptoms - terrible headaches, high fever, hacking cough, weakness. Said he was "really sick" for 4 days but then it passed and he improved fairly quickly. He was already under a semi-quarantine as they are doing in Japan - working at home and just going out to buy groceries. Other than that I don't know anybody with it. I live in a small town of less than 2000 and there hasn't been a single case of it here.

rolomac
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  #118  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:07 PM
Andy5340 Andy5340 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumblur View Post
Do you personally know anyone with C19? First hand, a real person you know and they know you. No 2nd cousins, a guy at work knows a guy, etc.

if you do, what is their status? What was their health condition before c19? And what is their prognosis after being diagnosed with it?

There's 186K members here. That's a decent cross section of society, I'd say. I myself do not know anyone with it, and no one I know knows anyone first hand. There are reports of "someone in my company" having had it, even deaths, but no "Jane Doe who I have known for 20 years has it, was in the hospital 2 weeks, came out/died" stories.

Thank you for playing along with my very unscientific experiment here.
Little delayed - My niece has it and is recovering. My sister is an RN in a nursing home. 37 on her floor with it, 6 dead. 18 are still going through it with one in serious condition.
The facility is not testing my sister b/c they think she'll test positive and can't lose staff.
Aside from that, my coworkers son has it. He's in his 20's and active duty Army. Recovering well so far.
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  #119  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:51 PM
Ephestian Ephestian is offline
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I have 1 friend who got the virus, she only has mild symptoms and is self isolating at home. Hope she recovers soon.
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  #120  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:18 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Where's the poll that should have accompanied this question?

Yes, a few, and two succumbed.
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  #121  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:34 PM
serpentine serpentine is offline
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Unfortunately, yes. Basically my sisters entire household, which includes my mom and grandmother and 1yr old nephew. All OK, other than nerves being shot. They live 10 minutes from me.

A couple of deaths on my wife’s side extended family. Across the country.

A couple of deaths not due to COVID but due to isolation. Very sad.

Of course it’s real, it’s affecting people in different ways, in many cases it’s counter intuitive. I try to absorb news reports that explain the data, as opposed to opinion.
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  #122  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:41 PM
Huski92 Huski92 is offline
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My department is up to five guys with it as if this morning.


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  #123  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:04 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Nope!
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  #124  
Old 05-15-2020, 12:31 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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Before anyone panics, look at today's CDC stats. Look at the surge of cases a few weeks ago, and look at the tapering off now. Also, just for some perspective, read about polio. I grew up in the 40s and 50s and remember it well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_polio
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  #125  
Old 06-04-2020, 07:15 AM
airtoad airtoad is offline
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Yup! Former Team Mate (SEAL TM3/6) 58yrs old, Stud...in great shape.
Almost 4 wks on a ventilator, lungs most likely will never be the same. Not something you want!!!
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