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  #26  
Old 08-13-2020, 09:42 PM
tanner's owner tanner's owner is offline
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I have a specialist commander in SS and have no problems. I followed the break in to the letter.

I also have a TCP with duty coat on the slide(frame is aluminum). I like Duty coat, but like the convenience of SS for cleaning. I have a separate cleaning surface, tools, etc to ensure I don’t get any of the other solvents on the TCP. Minor inconvenience, but still an inconvenience
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  #27  
Old 08-13-2020, 10:16 PM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonh1373 View Post
I have a number of stainless DW and never an issue until i "heard" about it on the forum.
Whoa...this forum speaks to you?? I have to "read" about everything.
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2020, 11:54 PM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post

<snip> one of the best products for lubrication of stainless was pure lanolin.
I've never tried it, but wondered how it would work on a 1911.
'Course we wouldn't want to have "soft hands" now would we.
There's nothing like slathering your 1911's with "rich emollients" to keep them kissably-soft.





Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
Too many people don't read the very specific instructions about breaking in and cleaning materials in the manual.

Pffft...next thing you'll expect is for dad to read the assembly instructions before putting the swing set together. I mean, you're supposed to have left-over parts...right??
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:42 AM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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Galling is caused by burrs/sharp edges on the slide/frame rails.

All anyone has to do is to check the rails and deburr them if necessary, period...
It's in the stickies.

Bob
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:01 AM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbert0005 View Post
Galling is caused by burrs/sharp edges on the slide/frame rails.
All anyone has to do is to check the rails and deburr them if necessary, period...
It's in the stickies.
Bob
Pretty much. Quoting myself from another forum/post;

"The issue was not with the mating surfaces, it was the sharp edges of the rails on the frame and slide left from the machining operations.
Oil will "glide" on a smooth surface but oil does not adhere to a sharp/knife edge.
Once I had used some 1000 grit on the sharp edges the issue decreased markedly."
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  #31  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:22 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbert0005 View Post
Galling is caused by burrs/sharp edges on the slide/frame rails.

All anyone has to do is to check the rails and deburr them if necessary, period...
It's in the stickies.
Not entirely true. Galling in this context is primarily due to friction although the things you mention could of course cause issue as well. The Links in my post below on another thread describe/explain better than I can by Guild Master Pistolsmiths. You typically can’t achieve the same fit with stainless you can carbon steel. You can overcome much of that with coatings to minimize friction (Accuracy-X) or Accu-Rails. Probably not as evident or significant of a concern in production pistols as they’re often not fit at all or fit to the level of a custom precision pistol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayhawkNavy02 View Post
Some good threads from a precision perspective. All my Bullseye 1911s are carbon steel, my carry gun is stainless. Accuracy-X is an exception to the tight/stainless issues commonly seen by what I assume are thanks to the coatings but have no real idea how/why it works.

Pay attention to KC Crawford, Jon Eulette, Joe Chambers, Chuck Warner, Greg Derr, and Jerry Keefer. Several of the gentlemen are Guild Master Pistolsmiths and support/supported Bullseye Shooters.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t3166-...ompetition-gun

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=319852

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=661161

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5056-...-range-officer

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5253-...ill-frowned-on
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  #32  
Old 08-14-2020, 11:19 AM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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^^^ I seem to recall Joe Chambers, a top pistol smith, stating SS has to have a bit more clearance than carbon steel.
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  #33  
Old 08-15-2020, 12:00 AM
regalsc regalsc is online now
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According to a member on the Addicts forum he just bought a Stainless Dan Wesson Heritage in 45 & lubed it up with FP10 racked the slide a bunch of times before taking it to the range. At the range on the 3rd round the gun seized up. He was unable to get the slide to move with a “soft” hammer. Seems like DW hasn’t figured out stainless guns completely yet.
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  #34  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:26 AM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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While racking the slide a bazillion times by hand can certainly do no harm, it in some ways does not address the issue.
The natural motion while racking is to apply downward pressure, to push the frame and slide closer together.
But when the gun fires the slide tries to lift-up on the frame in the front part of the interlocking rails.
Pushing down on the slide whilst racking has the effect of smoothing and lapping the interfacing horizontal surfaces in the forward sections that have the least amount of rubbing together when its fired.
'Course, assuming that their is no problem with the vertical surfaces.
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  #35  
Old 08-15-2020, 01:15 PM
tgt_usa tgt_usa is online now
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instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
There's nothing like slathering your 1911's with "rich emollients" to keep them kissably-soft.
Far be it from me to interfere between a man and his ... especially ... gun. But I am thinking that level of interaction would make it difficult to:

- ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

#8- O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
Pffft...next thing you'll expect is for dad to read the assembly instructions before putting the swing set together ...
Yeah, with my son just moved out, doing my own laundry until the Mrs. gets disgusted enough with my "laundry incompetence" to demand that she be re-appointed. Made a good start this morning by putting the soap in the bleach port ... didn't know she was watching, but I sure found out!!! After that, I noticed there were instructions next to the port; instructions that included the word "bleach". If the washing machine hadda trigger, I mighta read those first.
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  #36  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:00 PM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regalsc View Post
According to a member on the Addicts forum he just bought a Stainless Dan Wesson Heritage in 45 & lubed it up with FP10 racked the slide a bunch of times before taking it to the range. At the range on the 3rd round the gun seized up. He was unable to get the slide to move with a “soft” hammer. Seems like DW hasn’t figured out stainless guns completely yet.

Yeah, he posted in the Gunsmithing forum here too. https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1023080
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  #37  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:17 PM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is offline
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Guns don't have any exclusivity on galling. It's been going on since the first 2 pieces of metal rubbed together. Any garage mechanic that has put an aluminum fitting into an old Edelbrock aluminum intake manifold without teflon taping it first, knows the issue too well. Even chromoly steels can gall under the right conditions.
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  #38  
Old 08-15-2020, 09:01 PM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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Have read all the posts concerning this issue, both on the gunsmithing forum and over on the addicts site.
It would be interesting to know how DW will deal with it.
Would they apply steadily increasing pressure from just one end, or alternate from each end?
Would they use taps/hits/whacks, from one or both ends?
Or, like was suggested a few posts ago, something like liquid nitrogen, perhaps in combination with other efforts.
However, that kind of info may not be supplied.
Their doesn't seem to be much, (if any,) talk of this kind of issue on forums for the other manufacturers.
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  #39  
Old 08-15-2020, 09:46 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
Have read all the posts concerning this issue, both on the gunsmithing forum and over on the addicts site.
It would be interesting to know how DW will deal with it.
Would they apply steadily increasing pressure from just one end, or alternate from each end?
Would they use taps/hits/whacks, from one or both ends?
Or, like was suggested a few posts ago, something like liquid nitrogen, perhaps in combination with other efforts.
However, that kind of info may not be supplied.
Their doesn't seem to be much, (if any,) talk of this kind of issue on forums for the other manufacturers.
I see locked slides at Bullseye matches even with carbon steel (lack of lubrication) and a different issue when new shooters fail to use adequate lubrication. Solution is a rubber/leather mallet and a serious dose of shame at the armorers van...lol....not liquid nitrogen .....
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  #40  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:22 PM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regalsc View Post
According to a member on the Addicts forum he just bought a Stainless Dan Wesson Heritage in 45 & lubed it up with FP10 racked the slide a bunch of times before taking it to the range. At the range on the 3rd round the gun seized up. He was unable to get the slide to move with a “soft” hammer. Seems like DW hasn’t figured out stainless guns completely yet.
I was ready to roll the dice on a SS DW...until I saw that as well. And because of it, my next DW will definitely be Duty Finish. I really would like to have another "in the white" 1911, but I think I will go with a different manufacturer...maybe a Colt, or perhaps one of the new Ithaca models I just discovered (yes, literally JUST discovered the Ithaca 1911's being made in Ohio)

I'm bummed about the DW's. I get such smokin prices on CZ stuff.

EDIT: Actually I just realized the Ithacas are hard chromed, not in the white.
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Last edited by Flight Medic; 08-16-2020 at 12:16 AM.
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  #41  
Old 08-16-2020, 10:59 AM
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
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Take a new DW.

Break it down and get the factory stuff off of it.

Now take some good old LSA and apply it liberally.

Go shoot the DW.

Make sure you keep it well lubed.

Problem solved.

A very light grease like LSA is far superior to oil.
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2020, 01:20 PM
tgt_usa tgt_usa is online now
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Concur

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenGrunt View Post
Take a new DW.

Break it down and get the factory stuff off of it.

Now take some good old LSA and apply it liberally.

Go shoot the DW.

Make sure you keep it well lubed.

Problem solved.
^^^ this ^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenGrunt View Post
A very light grease like LSA is far superior to oil.
^^^ and would often agree depending upon application ^^^

Looking up and understanding how galling works isn't difficult. Once that's done, a person will also understand the reasoning behind the advice quoted above AND the break-in instructions in a DW owner's manual. DWs build tight as a key element of precision; leaving it to the owner to fire-lap bearing surfaces. Either set of instructions provided are sufficient to avoid galling beyond the microscopic.

Galling requires: metal to metal contact between bearing surfaces; filings between the bearing surfaces; heat. Galling increases in likelihood / rate with: increased temperature; some metallic properties (ductility); increased pressure upon bearing surfaces. Galling decreases in likelihood / rate with: reduced temperature; other metallic properties (hardness). Frequently refreshing lubricant allows surfaces to cool; suspends and removes filings. Lubricant, having limited compressibility, holds the surfaces apart. Thus removes required conditions for galling.

Seizing is not galling. Expansion due to heat is more likely to cause seizing and to promote galling. Galling, of course, can cause seizing as galling lumps snowball.
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:16 PM
tgt_usa tgt_usa is online now
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seizing is not galling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
I was ready to roll the dice on a SS DW...until I saw that as well. And because of it, my next DW will definitely be Duty Finish. I really would like to have another "in the white" 1911, but I think I will go with a different manufacturer...maybe a Colt, or perhaps one of the new Ithaca models I just discovered (yes, literally JUST discovered the Ithaca 1911's being made in Ohio)


I'm bummed about the DW's. I get such smokin prices on CZ stuff.


EDIT: Actually I just realized the Ithacas are hard chromed, not in the white.
It's too soon since getting a first Duty treated gun to recommend; but pretty as it is, sorely tempted to recommend anyway: won't do it, wouldn't be prudent.

Note that seizing is not galling. As tight-built as are DWs, seizing from expansion due to heat, especially during early break-in, doesn't much surprise me. And for the price:quality ratio of a DW, I'm okay with doing the fire-lapping myself. YMMV. My bought-used "Valor" has no galling; had 442rds logged when bought "used" (very gently). In order to complete break-in, I lubed it and ran out a box of 230gr FMJs. After getting it to 492rds, I thought "492 is close enough [to 500rds]."; re-lubed and started in on my 300rd acceptance test (for CCW); completed that. No malfunctions of any kind. Somewhere in the next 400rds, while shooting 230gr FMJs pretty fast, that pistol seized. After several seconds of cooling, I opened it and shot it slower. No stoppages since; no galling; up to 100rds at a time, it's perfect. By now the fire-lapping I've done, maybe I could do 300 as fast as I could load and shoot. But it's a carry gun; 60rds at full speed, it's good (I usually carry <1/2 that amount).
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Last edited by tgt_usa; 08-16-2020 at 06:09 PM.
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  #44  
Old 08-18-2020, 09:21 AM
bert8404 bert8404 is offline
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I had a stainless Springfield TRP gall pretty bad and lock up; and you still read plenty of threads of DW's galling after 2015. So no, manufactures haven't figured it out. There's also a misconception that they use different types of steel for the frame and slide to prevent galling, this isnt true. It's the same steel and galling is still a real concern. Even if you follow the break in instructions, it can still happen. If your gun does gall, DW will polish the rails and send it back. Looks like ****, but the gun will work. Buy a SS gun at your own risk. DW's are the prettiest stainless guns aside from a Brown. Might be worth the risk?
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  #45  
Old 08-18-2020, 09:46 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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My only experience is with a DW Classic in "Commander" size made in 2008 and in 10mm. I bought it almost LNIB in 2011. I initially cleaned a lot of goop out of it and put new CLP for SS on it.



Now I have an AMT Hardballer and little Deteonics in SS both both bought new in 1985 and have not had problems with galling. I did buy into lubes like TRI-FLON with Teflon in them back in that time period.
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  #46  
Old 08-18-2020, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc45 View Post
PM-9, Heritage, Valor Limited, Valor SS Commander, A2 Gov, A2 Commander all with no galling.
Before doing DW break-in procedures, I remove the barre then re-install the slide followed by 500 hand cycles back and forth with generous amounts of FP-10. Then run them for 400 rds or more wet, also with FP-10; seems to work ok to prevent galling.
Own PM-45 & PM9 for Steel Challenge shoots; Broke the PM-45 has outlined in the owners manual. The PM-9 over 500 hand cycles cleaning and applying FP 10 every 100 cycles. Then re-lube with FP 10 every 100 rounds up to 1000 rounds from comments on this Forum. You hand cycle program works well, a good start for breaking in a great 1911. While I took it many steps further after over a year since with each model just run them wet and no worries.

A shooting buddy has 4 stainless DW's with thousands of rounds with never an issue so with all these DW galling fears like they attracted COVID19. Agree a few DW's have galled, lack of lube or just to tight or both, who really knows? But is it a reason not to buy a stainless DW? Shouldn't, I took the plunge, break them in like you should and if you can't then buy another brand of 1911.
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  #47  
Old 08-18-2020, 10:34 PM
Jobe Jobe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
Want to get a new Valor, really like the magwell. Not sure if I should pay the extra $200 for the duty coat, but concerned about galling.

Anyone have a recent stainless 1911 from DW who could chime-in?
I've had Valor 9mm commander with the duty coat for about a month now. I've put 400 rds through it with no signs of gailing.

The fit and finish is pretty impressive. Zero rattle with no malfunctions with 115gr winchester ball. Had no issues with my reloads until I tried shooting some of my lighter loads.

I wasn't too happy with the very smooth HW grips but they have grown on me and I think I'll keep them on.

I can link some picks if you like.
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  #48  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:05 AM
Green Dragoon Green Dragoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayor View Post
Own PM-45 & PM9 for Steel Challenge shoots; Broke the PM-45 has outlined in the owners manual. The PM-9 over 500 hand cycles cleaning and applying FP 10 every 100 cycles. Then re-lube with FP 10 every 100 rounds up to 1000 rounds from comments on this Forum. You hand cycle program works well, a good start for breaking in a great 1911. While I took it many steps further after over a year since with each model just run them wet and no worries.

A shooting buddy has 4 stainless DW's with thousands of rounds with never an issue so with all these DW galling fears like they attracted COVID19. Agree a few DW's have galled, lack of lube or just to tight or both, who really knows? But is it a reason not to buy a stainless DW? Shouldn't, I took the plunge, break them in like you should and if you can't then buy another brand of 1911.
I followed all of DW's break-in protocol with a dripping wet (FP10) Heritage and it galled up. Just an fyi. This was a couple of years ago.
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  #49  
Old 08-19-2020, 08:23 PM
mayor mayor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragoon View Post
I followed all of DW's break-in protocol with a dripping wet (FP10) Heritage and it galled up. Just an fyi. This was a couple of years ago.
Their was another "Galling" thread on here earlier this year as I do remember several posts of Heritage models from what 2015/2016 that galled with proper break in. Who knows the hand racking with FP 10 certainly has prepped the DW for its firing break in period.
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  #50  
Old 08-19-2020, 09:47 PM
RoverSig RoverSig is offline
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I've got a 2017 DW Valor - with no signs of galling.

I've seen a fair amount of galling on SS "3rd Generation" S&W semi-autos (e.g., Mdl 5903) with transfer of like metal from one surface to the other, with a small gouge on one side and a build-up on the other. They continue to shoot regardless. Those pistols were built like tanks anyway.

I typically lightly stone the rails of a new pistol, but on the Valor I found the rails were super smooth already and of course covered with Duty finish -- so there was no reason to stone them. The only place I see wear through the black Duty finish now, after about 1000 rounds, is some shiny spots on the front top of the frame rails - although no galling. But it is something to watch for. I get the recommendation to clean a new SS pistol fairly often and keep it well-oiled.

Last edited by RoverSig; 08-20-2020 at 02:03 PM.
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