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  #1  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:51 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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Colt serial# 84382

Stuck it on layaway at the LGS until i could grab a bit of info, serial number 84382 puts it in the 500 USMC guns in 1914 according to the list on the proofhouse site. First wanted to see if that list is accurate. Also I could not get pics in the store. but looking back at a previous thread on USMC guns I'd say condition wise it falls in between the two pistols pictured here https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=484991 defintely way better shape than 3501 but not as nice and pristine as 3502. I'd put it for discussions sake right in the middle of these two guns as far as condition. I can snag it for 3k ASKING 3600. I think i am ok even if its not USMC based on age and condition and the I want it factor but does the USMC add any value?
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:26 PM
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83901-84400 shipped May 12, 1914 to the USMC Depot Quartermaster in Philadelphia, PA.

Per Clawson's book
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:31 PM
mlin mlin is online now
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The description for the serial number appears proper. It's critical to check the pistol has period correct barrel and small parts as well. Without proper parts, need to value price lower. Those early 1911 parts are hard to find and expense even if you can find those.

By the way, If everything checked out correct, a M1911 delivered to USMC almost always command higher price due to smaller quantity existed and most were in worse condition due to environments Marines were operating.

Last edited by mlin; 08-10-2020 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:42 PM
Bill Cee Bill Cee is offline
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Old 1911

By coincidence, I have serial number 84977. It was badly neglected by the original owner, so had to be reconditioned. Itís not as accurate as I would like, but totally reliable, and good for practicing point shooting. Then again, the sights are near worthless to old eyes. Itís all original except for the barrel.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:15 AM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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does anyone have any good pics of a 1914? the 1914 navy on cool gunsite is almost too perfect to go buy, anyone with pics of a gun with some wear?
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:38 AM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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i found these pics on auction sale sites

https://pre98.com/shop/sold-colt-191...ational-guard/

https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=100630896

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...tomatic-pistol

I guess my biggest question right now is about finish, some near perfect guns ive seen 1916 1917 you can really see the "grain" finishing marks in the blue. you can kind of see them but fainter in the 1914 navy on coolgunsite and the pa national guard gun in the link above but not so much in the rockisland or gunsinternational links.

Last edited by 67GT390FBVA; 08-13-2020 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post
does anyone have any good pics of a 1914? the 1914 navy on cool gunsite is almost too perfect to go buy, anyone with pics of a gun with some wear?
The pistol shown on coolgunsite belongs to Karl and is a perfect reference for a 1914 Colt Navy.
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:15 PM
Charlie Flick Charlie Flick is offline
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Pics of M1911 87216 can be found at this thread. https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...1914-Colt-1911

Regards,
Charlie
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:43 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The pistol shown on coolgunsite belongs to Karl and is a perfect reference for a 1914 Colt Navy.
yes but my point was the gun is in such fine condition that trying to determine if a worn finish is correct or adulterated is next to impossible by using it as base. as for matching parts and checkering patterns yes the pics are most helpfull but for the finish my comment stands that it is too clean for my purposes unless i was trying to determine a percentage of how much wear is present since that gun is 99% plus
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:44 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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Originally Posted by Charlie Flick View Post
Pics of M1911 87216 can be found at this thread. https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...1914-Colt-1911

Regards,
Charlie
thanks Charlie those pics are great, and what i was looking for on a known quantity with wear
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  #11  
Old 08-13-2020, 04:59 PM
Charlie Flick Charlie Flick is offline
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Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post
thanks Charlie those pics are great, and what i was looking for on a known quantity with wear
You are welcome.

Charlie
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2020, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post
yes but my point was the gun is in such fine condition that trying to determine if a worn finish is correct or adulterated is next to impossible by using it as base. as for matching parts and checkering patterns yes the pics are most helpfull but for the finish my comment stands that it is too clean for my purposes unless i was trying to determine a percentage of how much wear is present since that gun is 99% plus
I'm confused. How can you judge the authenticity of a worn finish without knowing what it was supposed to look like when new? You can take a refinish and beat it down to look like a worn original finish very easily. The cues for original finish are best seen with a nice original specimen, which you then try to find in the worn finish as well.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:35 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I'm confused. How can you judge the authenticity of a worn finish without knowing what it was supposed to look like when new? You can take a refinish and beat it down to look like a worn original finish very easily. The cues for original finish are best seen with a nice original specimen, which you then try to find in the worn finish as well.
Everyone looks at something from a different perspective. yes taking a pristine gun with 99% finish as an example is one way but you have to imagine how that finish would degrade or you can take a known correct example that is worn and compare that finish to another example that has wear and is not 99% without imagining and guessing as much. you can compare how the two similar guns have worn how it affected the color and texture of the finish. for that, to me a 99% gun doesn't really cut it unless its a 97 or 98% gun you are comparing it to. but maybe that's just me.
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Old 08-13-2020, 11:15 PM
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The problem is, wear is not wear. Bluing will wear at different rates and in different spots. You would need to compare two pistols where the degree and coverage of the wear or oxidation process has been the same, and that is not going to be easy.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:38 AM
stan2 stan2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post
Everyone looks at something from a different perspective. yes taking a pristine gun with 99% finish as an example is one way but you have to imagine how that finish would degrade or you can take a known correct example that is worn and compare that finish to another example that has wear and is not 99% without imagining and guessing as much. you can compare how the two similar guns have worn how it affected the color and texture of the finish. for that, to me a 99% gun doesn't really cut it unless its a 97 or 98% gun you are comparing it to. but maybe that's just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post
Stuck it on layaway at the LGS until i could grab a bit of info, serial number 84382 puts it in the 500 USMC guns in 1914 according to the list on the proofhouse site. First wanted to see if that list is accurate. Also I could not get pics in the store. but looking back at a previous thread on USMC guns I'd say condition wise it falls in between the two pistols pictured here https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=484991 defintely way better shape than 3501 but not as nice and pristine as 3502. I'd put it for discussions sake right in the middle of these two guns as far as condition. I can snag it for 3k ASKING 3600. I think i am ok even if its not USMC based on age and condition and the I want it factor but does the USMC add any value?
(What,---No Pictures Displayed in this Thread ? )

67GT390FBVA,

"does the USMC add any value?" Some collectors think so ! Most likely, most Surviving Original Condition M1911 USMC Pistols are 1917 vintage. Some believe, most existing USMC Pistols have been re-finished at least once. ? To find a 1914 USMC M1911 with any original finish (metal prep and bluing) is not that common. (IIRC, have Not examined an original finish 1914 USMC Pistol.) If 84382 has an original finish and is correct,...most collectors would "snag it" !

Some believe, a typical metal finish (the metal preparation),...before the bluing, is important.

Here's an early 1914 in decent shape: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=964570

And, below is 887XX,...it is one of 350 (88601 - 88950) shipped 3 July 1914 to Brig. General Thomas J. Stewart, Harrisburg, PA. (Lots of digital information when fully enlarged. 887XX is all Original, except for possibly the Stocks and the Magazine. Sure would be nice to have a 1914 USMC that Looked Like This ! 84382 should have the 1913 Patent Date. )

Best Regards,



Attached Thumbnails
1914 No887XX 095-2.jpg   1914 No887XX 118-3.jpg  

Last edited by stan2; 08-14-2020 at 04:00 AM.
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:20 AM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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[QUOTE=stan2;13241314](What,---No Pictures Displayed in this Thread ? )

67GT390FBVA,

"does the USMC add any value?" Some collectors think so ! Most likely, most Surviving Original Condition M1911 USMC Pistols are 1917 vintage. Some believe, most existing USMC Pistols have been re-finished at least once. ? To find a 1914 USMC M1911 with any original finish (metal prep and bluing) is not that common. (IIRC, have Not examined an original finish 1914 USMC Pistol.) If 84382 has an original finish and is correct,...most collectors would "snag it" !

Some believe, a typical metal finish (the metal preparation),...before the bluing, is important.

Here's an early 1914 in decent shape: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=964570

And, below is 887XX,...it is one of 350 (88601 - 88950) shipped 3 July 1914 to Brig. General Thomas J. Stewart, Harrisburg, PA. (Lots of digital information when fully enlarged. 887XX is all Original, except for possibly the Stocks and the Magazine. Sure would be nice to have a 1914 USMC that Looked Like This ! 84382 should have the 1913 Patent Date. )

Best Regards,


Thanks, to all of you for the pics and the links i'm getting a better idea of what the worn finish should look like and what near perfect should be. the LGS doesn't want you taking pictures of stuff so i just roll with it. I do know the barrel is the right one and the slide has teh 1913 patent date. so i'll go back and go over it better armed with what you guys have helped me with. I knew the possibility was that it was a good one based on the serial number so i stuck it on layaway knowing i could come here and learn more about the 1914 specifics and if it wasnt what i thought no harm no foul i'd put the les baer i took off layaway back on(stupid scratch on the muzzle end of the slide and all)

from what i am seeing the gun should have a 2 tone lanyard loop mag, currently the mag in the gun is a 2 tone no lanyard mag. i'll go spend some quality time with it this weekend during visiting hours.

Last edited by 67GT390FBVA; 08-14-2020 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 08-16-2020, 12:54 AM
vette vette is offline
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[QUOTE=67GT390FBVA;13241506]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan2 View Post
(What,---No Pictures Displayed in this Thread ? )

67GT390FBVA,

"does the USMC add any value?" Some collectors think so ! Most likely, most Surviving Original Condition M1911 USMC Pistols are 1917 vintage. Some believe, most existing USMC Pistols have been re-finished at least once. ? To find a 1914 USMC M1911 with any original finish (metal prep and bluing) is not that common. (IIRC, have Not examined an original finish 1914 USMC Pistol.) If 84382 has an original finish and is correct,...most collectors would "snag it" !

Some believe, a typical metal finish (the metal preparation),...before the bluing, is important.

Here's an early 1914 in decent shape: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=964570

And, below is 887XX,...it is one of 350 (88601 - 88950) shipped 3 July 1914 to Brig. General Thomas J. Stewart, Harrisburg, PA. (Lots of digital information when fully enlarged. 887XX is all Original, except for possibly the Stocks and the Magazine. Sure would be nice to have a 1914 USMC that Looked Like This ! 84382 should have the 1913 Patent Date. )

Best Regards,


Thanks, to all of you for the pics and the links i'm getting a better idea of what the worn finish should look like and what near perfect should be. the LGS doesn't want you taking pictures of stuff so i just roll with it. I do know the barrel is the right one and the slide has teh 1913 patent date. so i'll go back and go over it better armed with what you guys have helped me with. I knew the possibility was that it was a good one based on the serial number so i stuck it on layaway knowing i could come here and learn more about the 1914 specifics and if it wasnt what i thought no harm no foul i'd put the les baer i took off layaway back on(stupid scratch on the muzzle end of the slide and all)

from what i am seeing the gun should have a 2 tone lanyard loop mag, currently the mag in the gun is a 2 tone no lanyard mag. i'll go spend some quality time with it this weekend during visiting hours.

Sounds like you may have made a great find. Hope it all works out. You can find a mag but kinda pricey. Please post pics when you get it.

My parents had a 66 GTA 390. In 69 with my new DL, I totaled it hitting a huge oak with the roof leveling the roof with the door. I feel between the bucket seats fortunately and came to about 20 minutes later in an ambulance. Youth is not so smart and I probably would have shot that without hesitation at that time, not now. My foot still gets heavy at times though.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:13 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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[QUOTE=vette;13243510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67GT390FBVA View Post


Sounds like you may have made a great find. Hope it all works out. You can find a mag but kinda pricey. Please post pics when you get it.

My parents had a 66 GTA 390. In 69 with my new DL, I totaled it hitting a huge oak with the roof leveling the roof with the door. I feel between the bucket seats fortunately and came to about 20 minutes later in an ambulance. Youth is not so smart and I probably would have shot that without hesitation at that time, not now. My foot still gets heavy at times though.
so does mine the 67 mustang fastback is gone but am on the hunt for a 69 fairlane cobra 428cj car, but i did go buy the lgs and get pics and will be adding them as i can
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:23 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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first two pics, best i could do with the phone in the store, and yes i know the lower rh grip screw bushing is wrong
Attached Thumbnails
20200815_152941.jpg   20200815_152955.jpg  

Last edited by 67GT390FBVA; 08-17-2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:29 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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second batch of pics
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jpg1.jpg   20200815_153044.jpg   20200815_153030.jpg   jpg2.jpg   jpg4.jpg   jpg5.jpg  

jpg6.jpg  
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:39 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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3rd set
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20200815_153200.jpg   20200815_153228.jpg   20200815_153301.jpg   jpg8.jpg   20200815_153949.jpg   20200815_153313.jpg  

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Old 08-17-2020, 01:42 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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pics of the mag, no markings on mag sorry for poor image of base
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20200815_154013.jpg   20200815_154005.jpg   20200815_154001.jpg   20200815_153958.jpg  
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:59 PM
Ibmikey Ibmikey is offline
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My 1911 is in really nice shape for its years (1917) and the magazine is the type three lanyard loop mag that would be proper for your pistol but not mine. Anyway it looks cool in my 1911.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:07 PM
vette vette is offline
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That looks pretty promising. Can not be sure but good chance it has original finish. Great score.

Good luck on the 68. Saw one at a Mustang specialty shop near Statesville, NC a few years back.
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Old 08-18-2020, 12:35 PM
67GT390FBVA 67GT390FBVA is offline
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Originally Posted by vette View Post
That looks pretty promising. Can not be sure but good chance it has original finish. Great score.

Good luck on the 68. Saw one at a Mustang specialty shop near Statesville, NC a few years back.
Thanks Vette, hopefully now that I have posted pictures i'll get some more opinions on the finish, after looking at some of the other examples I am leaning towards the finish being original like you, but hope to hear from some of the other guys on here.
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