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  #1  
Old 02-24-2019, 04:02 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Nazi Hi Power with Eagle Grips

Hello,
This is my Nazi Hi Power and wonder if anyone here might know something about the grips on it. The gun is a First Sub-variant, all matching serial number 187982. Plus it has the Wa140 marked magazine.

Any information about the grips would be appreciated.
Thanks!



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  #2  
Old 02-24-2019, 05:29 PM
Mazz Mazz is offline
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Not something I would have on any gun.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2019, 05:35 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Okay Mazz?? Guess I should grind off the the Nazi marks on the gun too. It's history, not my political views.

BTW, the grips are wood, not plastic. Just wondered if anyone else has seen this grip before and if they're period correct.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:18 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Interesting. Such grips would have been only seen on a special gun presented to a high officer, war hero, high official or such. Or, they could have been made anywhere at any time. There would have to be some research to first prove authenticity and then try to determine who it was for. They certainly have the look of being on there for a long time. The first thing I would do is remove the grips to see if there is anything on the back sides.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:43 PM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is offline
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There were "party leader" grips on presentation Walther PPK's that had the NSDAP eagle on each side, but I have never seen a Hi-Power with such grips.

Very interesting, as stated above check the insides of each grip for any tell-tale markings.

They appear to be quality inletting, not a bubba job. It is possible that it was commissioned work once the FN factory came under German control.

Your Hi-Power represents history, those that don't learn from history and want to destroy it are only doomed to repeat it.
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:43 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Thanks 1saxman. Took them off and nothing stamped or written on them. The wear on them is consistent with the guns condition. The emblems appears to be silver and they also have consistent wear with the gun. The emblems had to be put on at the time the grips were made due to the border on the checkering. I've never seen these before and can't find anything on the internet about them.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:54 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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"Your Hi-Power represents history, those that don't learn from history and want to destroy it are only doomed to repeat it." Never truer words spoken!!

"Party Leader" grips. At least I can name them. :-) Your correct on the inletting, perfect work. The border on the checking was made to allow the emblem inlay. Here's a closeup picture.



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  #8  
Old 02-24-2019, 10:39 PM
KDKSAIL KDKSAIL is offline
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I'm pretty sure that whomever said that these grips are Nazi party leader grips....similar to the ones occasionally seen on Walther and Luger pistols....is spot on...but I thought that the 'eagle & swasitka' was a metal insert (??). These appear to have been routed/carved into the wood (??) Are you sure that the grips are wood....and not Bakelite ??
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2019, 11:05 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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The insert may be metal instead of silver. Not sure. They are no doubt wood grips. And the grips had to made for the emblem due to solid border around the checkering under swastika and eagle wings. They certainly weren't added to a standard pair of grips. I've searched all night and can't find a thing about them. ugh.....
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2019, 11:53 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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I'm second guessing myself now. They appear to be wood to me and tapping them lightly together, it sounds like wood. The imperfections appear to be wood. But I don't know anything about bakelite. Here's a picture of the backside of the grips.

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  #11  
Old 02-25-2019, 10:30 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Wow - those are very interesting. I had a friend who described some silver inlaid grips like that on a Luger. He was quite older than me and I asked if I could see them, but that never happened. He has since died and I never was never able to see them. Don’t know what happened to the pistol either.

It would be interesting to know more about that pistol. If that pistol was in fact carried during WWII. My thoughts are this:

1 - It was owned by a real Nazi. With some means. It is unique.

2 - he was likely a gun guy... the Luftwaffe had High Powers - I am pretty sure they where the only branch of the German Army to have them issued. They had graduated tangent sights. Yours does not have a tangent sight, so this leads me to believe that it was a special pistol. The Luger was prized by many Germans... but not because it was a superior shooter. If you have ever shot one... you would know why. The P38 would not be revered by a “real gun guy” as the most desired gun of the day. The guy who owned this pistol went out of his way to get a BHP (without tangent). I believe he would have also gone way out of his way to get the silver/steel inlay.

Curious... do the frame or barrel have any swasitaka proof marks?
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2019, 10:42 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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I don’t know that much about making grips / checkering. But it appears to me that the grips where made originally to accept the inlay. See the raised portion of the circle around the swastika... same hight as the highest diamonds of the checkering. I also noticed that the eagle is taller than wider than most Nazi Eagle Swastika Embelems. It looks more like US Army O6 Eagle rank insignia in prpotions - of course, minus the shield and olive branches.

Good luck on discovering the history... I hope you will keep us informed
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2019, 10:58 AM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Thanks for the reply HarryO45, The germans stop making the Hi Powers with tangent sights in 1942. There were several sub-variant models after that. This is the first fix sighted sub-variant model after the tangent sights. It was produced from December, 1942 - April, 1943. These have standard serial numbers. The second sub-variant models have an "a" suffix added to the serial number.

I know a little bit about Hi Powers due to Anthony Vanderlinden's book of "FN Browning Pistols". It's a great reference book for anyone interested in FN Browning pistols.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2019, 12:40 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Sent Mr. Vanderlinden an email without pictures last night about the High Power and had a chance to visit with him on the phone a little bit ago. He warned me GI's were notorious for adding NSDAP Eagles to captured High Powers. After describing the grips to him about how they were made for the eagle, he seemed very interested and wanted pictures. Also said if the grips were made for the eagle, they would be ultra rare and would like to have pictures of my gun for his next book. Needless to say, I'm very excited about this gun.

BTW, the estate auction I went to had some very high end Winchesters too. Had a deluxe 1876, deluxe 1886 with 7 leaf express sights, deluxe 1873, deluxe 1894, deluxe 1895 and a deluxe 1892. All were in at least 60-70 percent condition with some in the 80-90 percent range. The 1876 hammered at $15,000. This was a local estate auction in a Texas panhandle town of about 8,000 people and wasn't available for internet bidding. You had to be there. It wasn't even advertised in the paper in Amarillo until Thursday before the Saturday sale. That's how I found out about it.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2019, 01:25 PM
KDKSAIL KDKSAIL is offline
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'..Bakelite..' was a phenolic resin compound that could be '..molded..' to take a wide variety of shapes. Think of heavy, old telephones....they were formed from Bakelite resin.

The reason I suspected Bakelite is that the raised/rolled '..bordering..' around the insignia emblem would be much more easily '..molded..' than carved/routed and was remarkably durable. Bakelite was ubiquitous worldwide, for a broad ranging variety of products and applications, during WWII. I know that some FN Hi Power grips where molded from Bakelite back in the day.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2019, 01:54 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Appreciate the lesson on Bakelite. Learn something new every day. The grips are for sure wood on my High Power.

Side note from Mr. Vandelinden for those that didn't know, like me: Learned something else new today.
If the slide says Browning, it's a Hi Power.
If the slide says Fabrique Nationale, it's a High Power.
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2019, 02:44 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xitnet View Post
Thanks for the reply HarryO45, The germans stop making the Hi Powers with tangent sights in 1942. There were several sub-variant models after that. This is the first fix sighted sub-variant model after the tangent sights. It was produced from December, 1942 - April, 1943. These have standard serial numbers. The second sub-variant models have an "a" suffix added to the serial number.

I know a little bit about Hi Powers due to Anthony Vanderlinden's book of "FN Browning Pistols". It's a great reference book for anyone interested in FN Browning pistols.
Wow, thanks for the info... sounds like you know a lot more about the German HiPowers than me. Who was issued the HiPowers beside the Luftwaffe after 42? I hardly see them in photos of the period. I was told long ago that the air forces only had the HP as a standard issue. But I know that exceptions always exist. Do you know how many HPs the Germans issued?
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2019, 03:01 PM
Mazz Mazz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xitnet View Post
Okay Mazz?? Guess I should grind off the the Nazi marks on the gun too. It's history, not my political views.

BTW, the grips are wood, not plastic. Just wondered if anyone else has seen this grip before and if they're period correct.
Pardon my ignorance. My first thought was you had the grips made by the company Eagle Grips. Thus my initial post. Now that I realize these are original to the gun, my initial post was out of line. I do apologize.
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:52 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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Thank you for the reply Mazz. No problem. :-)

Harry,
I never heard that only the Luftwaffe received them. I've seen pictures of regular troops with them. Also have no idea about total production but it was a lot through all the phases of the war. The Germans weren't concerned about keeping accurate production records during the war. Sabotaged guns by Belgium workers is also well noted during German occupation.

The Germans wanted to streamline production so elimited the tangent sight so they could produce more guns. My gun is the first sub-variant of that process and was in the run of the first fixed sighted guns. They continued to stamp the mags at the beginning of this run with WA140 but dropped it early on. My mag has the correct early WA140 stamp.

PS. This not my knowledge but things I repeat from Mr Vanderlinden's book called "FN Browning Pistols".

Last edited by xitnet; 02-25-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:24 PM
oO_Rogue_Oo oO_Rogue_Oo is offline
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Really nice piece of history you've got there.
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  #21  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:48 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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The German military generally did not embellish weapons as such. The ones made for high party members were done much more lavishly and higher quality. Not many were done mid-late war anyway.
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:56 PM
xitnet xitnet is offline
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The gun was mfg. in late 42 or early 43. You would think if they went through the effort to make special grips, the would have embellished the gun a little. I'm really curious what Mr. Vanderlinden has to say about them. I'll let you guys know when he gets back to me.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:58 PM
153 153 is offline
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I’m of the opinion these are post war and not original.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2019, 05:06 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xitnet View Post
Thank you for the reply Mazz. No problem. :-)

Harry,
I never heard that only the Luftwaffe received them. I've seen pictures of regular troops with them. Also have no idea about total production but it was a lot through all the phases of the war. The Germans weren't concerned about keeping accurate production records during the war. Sabotaged guns by Belgium workers is also well noted during German occupation.
Yea, I had heard of the sabotage by Belgium workers. Really interesting to read about the German Army in WWII. I looked for my source of “only the Luftwaffe were given the tangent sighted HP” but I can’t find it. Sorry, I wish I could have shared that. I remember it because it said, that the tangent sight was needed by Airmen because of the potential of longer ranged shots... pretty crazy I always thought, but it stuck in my mind. I inherited one of those, another reason why it stuck in my mind. Incidentally the Luftwaffe had a pretty large Infantry and Armored force. Gorring’s creation early in the war.
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  #25  
Old 02-25-2019, 05:09 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Originally Posted by 153 View Post
I’m of the opinion these are post war and not original.
Why do you believe that?
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