Dan Wesson Guardian extractor? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:23 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
Dan Wesson Guardian extractor?

Please bare with me on this one. This is a 9mm Guardian with some pretty weak ejections (in my opinion). I have 900 rounds through it as of yesterday. Since day one the casings have been ejecting anywhere from about the 1:00 to maybe 2:30 position and about only a couple feet away. At times they even just kinda plop out and land either right next to my right foot or just in front of it. Been using Remington 115 FMJ and some Federal 124 FMJ. I noticed today that the Federal casings especially have a deep gouge in the casing. Did a tension test with a spent casing and if I press the casing against the breach face I can definitely see the extractor hook hitting up into the taper which is where the gouge is. Not sure if the picture will show up focused enough but will try. First picture is obviously the casing sitting in a national rested position and does not fall out when shaken. Second picture is of the gouge left in casing. Hopefully they are clear enough.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_20200517_163258743_1589750346162.jpg   IMG_20200517_163441800_1589750478753.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:02 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
Oh geez, sorry I forgotten to ask if this could mean perhaps the extractor could be just a bit too long and causing the casings to lightly bind up while ejecting causing the weak ejections?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:41 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
You should be able to push the case flat against the breechface and have it stay that way. If not, the front of the extractor is contacting the case bevel which you do not want. Your one picture shows this contact. You can carefully file the front of the extractor to minimize or eliminate the contact but if you remove too much metal the extractor will be weakened and it's possible that the hook will break off at some point in the future.

You might take a look at the extractor fitting sticky above. I added a section on fitting 9mm extractors not long ago.

As for weak ejection, you may have to do what I did. I replaced the mainspring with an 18lb, replaced the recoil spring with a 9lb, and fit a firing pin stop with a radically rounded one.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:50 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
Thank you Steve I will go to that sticky now.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:01 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
That sticky was just what I needed. Thank you Steve! I hit the extractor a couple times with a jeweler's file I have and readjusted ever so slightly. Hopefully if the rain holds off here tomorrow I'll be able to get out back and see how much difference this made in at least removing the gouges. I appreciate your direction. Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:26 AM
Dave Hoback Dave Hoback is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 359
Yup! Steve hit the nail on the head. I didn’t even notice until he mentioned the pic. Good eye!

I have another idea for thrown brass. Roll your own with 147grain hard casts and some +P pressure. That’ll kick them puppies plenty far I suspect! LOL. (Yes, I’m just kidding).
__________________
Tried to help, but few deserve it. And the bias from mods is thick! So Iím out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:04 PM
NoExpert NoExpert is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS1911 View Post
That sticky was just what I needed. Thank you Steve! I hit the extractor a couple times with a jeweler's file I have and readjusted ever so slightly. Hopefully if the rain holds off here tomorrow I'll be able to get out back and see how much difference this made in at least removing the gouges. I appreciate your direction. Thanks again
Be sure that the ejector will pop over the rim of a chambered cartridge so that the slide will go to battery even if the cartridge gets ahead of the extractor.
__________________
"If socialists understood economics they wouldn't be socialists."

- Friedrich Hayek
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:27 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExpert View Post
Be sure that the ejector will pop over the rim of a chambered cartridge so that the slide will go to battery even if the cartridge gets ahead of the extractor.
Completely agree but . . .

When I fit an extractor I won't fiddle with it to ensure the snap over function until after I've put lots of rounds down range. I want to know if I'm getting inertia feeds first and address that problem. Once that's squared away I'l work on the geometry at the front of the hook to get the snap over.

This was the key to being able to identify an extractor that had improper hook-to-breechface clearance. If I had first set up the extractor to snap over, I never would have found this problem.

Just a suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:32 PM
NoExpert NoExpert is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Completely agree but . . .

When I fit an extractor I won't fiddle with it to ensure the snap over function until after I've put lots of rounds down range. I want to know if I'm getting inertia feeds first and address that problem. Once that's squared away I'l work on the geometry at the front of the hook to get the snap over.

This was the key to being able to identify an extractor that had improper hook-to-breechface clearance. If I had first set up the extractor to snap over, I never would have found this problem.

Just a suggestion.
Sorry, I just really cracked up over your post Steve

You are right, of course.

What struck me as so funny was that you said you wouldn't have known you had a problem if the extractor snapped over while my point was to fix the extractor so the pistol would work even if it had a similar problem! Guess it doesn't sound so funny when it's in writing, but I think you know what I mean!
__________________
"If socialists understood economics they wouldn't be socialists."

- Friedrich Hayek
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:43 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExpert View Post
Sorry, I just really cracked up over your post Steve
I'm just naturally funny - although my wife might disagree.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-18-2020, 04:43 PM
sawman556 sawman556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
My Guardian 9mm has weak ejection. My brass lands at 3:30 about 16 inches from me. I performed and passed Steve's test. Ran 2 9 round mags with dropping the mag for each shot. None of the brass went down the mag well. All ejected. I just rolled 1542 rounds on the DW in 3 weeks and zero malfs. Should I be worried about the weak ejection? I thought about replacing the extractor with a EGW HD over the Practical I have in it, but I need to do more research to learn how to do it. Or should I just leave it alone. I'd feel a little better with a little more umph behind it. It will come in handy on the indoor range with the divider to my right. It won't be bouncing brass back at me.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-18-2020, 05:10 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawman556 View Post
Or should I just leave it alone.
How about my experience with springs in Post #3 above and fitting a radically curved firing pin stop?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-18-2020, 06:36 PM
sawman556 sawman556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
How about my experience with springs in Post #3 above and fitting a radically curved firing pin stop?
I'd rather not change the firing pin stop. I'll check and see how the extractor holds the brass when I clean it tomorrow. I'll post a pic. The gun has been 100% at 1500 rounds. Can't even say that for a couple of Glocks I own.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:09 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
Thanks for all the advice from everyone. Rained all freeking day today so didn't get a chance to step out back. As soon as I can I'll put that test from Steve to work. Then start looking for different springs. I'm one of those baby step guys at this point.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:14 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alabama and Florida, US
Posts: 11,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawman556 View Post
I'd rather not change the firing pin stopÖ
Firing pin stops are inexpensive. Just buy a good oversized one (9mm S70 specific) to allow precise fitting. Then modify until you get good function.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:29 PM
sawman556 sawman556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Firing pin stops are inexpensive. Just buy a good oversized one (9mm S70 specific) to allow precise fitting. Then modify until you get good function.
I have an extra. There is no reason to change it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-20-2020, 10:18 AM
sawman556 sawman556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
Hows this look?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-20-2020, 10:31 AM
NoExpert NoExpert is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,788
Now, put a radius on the nose of the extractor. Something like this:

__________________
"If socialists understood economics they wouldn't be socialists."

- Friedrich Hayek
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-20-2020, 10:40 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawman556 View Post
Hows this look?
Wow! Like NoExpert suggested, a slight radius on the front of the claw would make it perfect.

Fitting a 9mm extractor like a .45 extractor is a feat. If the deflection, hook-to-breechface distance, and everything else are good, you should have a perfectly running pistol for a very, very long time.

Nicely done.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-20-2020, 11:43 AM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
So how would the casing stay in place without instantly falling out when trying to test?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:44 PM
sawman556 sawman556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExpert View Post
Now, put a radius on the nose of the extractor. Something like this:

So just hit it with a small file or sandpaper?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-20-2020, 01:04 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawman556 View Post
So just hit it with a small file or sandpaper?
Yup. What you're doing is making sure there's no contact with the case bevel and shaping the extractor so that it will snap over the rim of a cartridge that has been push fed into the chamber.

I recommend clearing the bevel by the smallest possible amount to maintain the structural integrity of the claw.

Further, I recommend not rounding the front of the claw until test firing shows no push feed / inertia feeding problems.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-20-2020, 01:15 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 207
The problem I seem to be having is if tune the extractor to say a Remington round in either 115 or 224 they fit nicely, no marring of the casings. Then insert a Federal or Blazer round in 224 the casings are just big enough to scrape against the hook and dent the ramp. This causes the casing to be pulled away from the breach face and wedged in too tightly.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-20-2020, 01:59 PM
BrokenGrunt's Avatar
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: East of Dallas
Posts: 232
I have two Dan Wesson 1911 pistols. Both from 2007, both in 10mm.

Both of them had flat extractors. No tension at all.

I've seen the same problem with other DW 1911 pistols. It seems to be something that they don't pay enough attention to.
__________________
Semper Fi till the day I die.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-20-2020, 02:54 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS1911 View Post
The problem I seem to be having is if tune the extractor to say a Remington round in either 115 or 224 they fit nicely, no marring of the casings.
Showing my ignorance but what does the "224" refer to?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved