Latest AR project - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-29-2020, 08:28 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,780
Latest AR project

I finally finished my second AR pistol build, so now I have two. Both have similar components but are set up differently. The first was a .300 Blackout with a PSA 7.5" barrel and BCG, upper and parts kit, Midwest MLOK handguard, MOE grip, A2 flash hider, SBA3 brace, Anderson lower, Magpul BUIS, Romeo4 optic, and Monstrum light. The second one I just finished is similar but it is a 5.56 PSA 8.5" w/flash can and a Tailhook Mod2 brace, and currently just a cheap Chinese optic.



I had a chance to fire both of them side-by-side last weekend and have formed a few thoughts...

1. In such a short barrel, definitely go .300 Blackout. Even with a flash can the 5.56 out of a short barrel is LOUD and the flash considerable. It was nowhere as fun to shoot as the .300 Blackout pistol, which despite being more powerful and having slightly greater recoil was much more pleasant on the ears and every bit as controllable.

2. As braces go, the SBA3 may be more popular but the Tailhook definitely is a lot more effective and practical when you use it like you're actually supposed to. All you have to do is fold the rear piece down and cradle your forearm in it, and it has all the support you need to fire one-handed. The SBA3 requires you to strap yourself in, and not only is it awkward but it makes it hard to safely handle the weapon when you're literally stuck to it. But of course if you're not going to use them as advertised it's a moot point, as they feel and function exactly the same. Shooting while using the cheek as a point of contact felt the same with either one.

3. Both currently have standard carbine buffers in them. The harshness of the 5.56 tells me I need an H1 or H2 buffer, which I have on order. So far my experience with subsonic .300BLK ammo in the other one has been mixed. The bolt was not locking back all the time, and a borrowed H1 buffer only made it worse. I will continue to tweak it to get subsonics to run better, but with the current ammo shortage I will have to wait for awhile.

4. Using older PMags in the .300BLK was jam city, so I bought some of the dedicated .300 PMags and it ran 100% with those. And yes I have both the weapon and the mags clearly marked so I don't do something stupid and blow myself up with a .300 round inside the 5.56 pistol.

5. As fun as the shorter pistol is to shoot, there is next to nothing to grab onto up front so it's really important to watch where the hand and fingers go. I have a forward stop on it so that I instantly know how close the muzzle is.

6. PSA's uppers, barrels and small parts are okay, but in my opinion their BCG's are sub-par... at least their non-premium ones are. Despite being marked as MPI, Carpenter 158 and all that jazz, the holes and edges are not even deburred meaning there are potential stress risers that can crack in the future. There's a sharp edge all around the cam pin hole in the bolt, where bolts typically fail. Even getting the cotter key back in to secure the firing pin is a challenge because the holes are sharp and not chamfered. I intend to replace the BCGs in both of these at the earliest opportunity with something better. Both pistols have their "enhanced trigger", which isn't any lighter than USGI but certianly feels smoother.

7. I couldn't test intrinsic accuracy from a rest, but both were easy to sight in and they shoot just as well from my hands offhand at 25 yards as my 16" rifles. I have every reason to believe that practical accuracy is about the same out to any reasonable range when using an optic. Accuracy with the "irons" was noticeably worse, but that's was expected due to the shorter sight radius. Also Magpul's plastic BIUS aren't exactly the most precise sights out there.

Anyway, just my initial thoughts on the first two pistols I ever pieced together. Like with most of my other ARs they will likely morph into different setups as time goes on.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 06-29-2020 at 10:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:49 PM
19eleven84 19eleven84 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Western US
Posts: 387
Thanks for sharing, great info about pistol AR of different calibers.

I'm still on a planning stage of my pistol AR build and I'm currently working with my nephew which already built his 5.56, 7.5" barrel, we are just tweaking it with the buffer weights.

Also I'm going to help him build his second upper half a 7.62X39, he's just waiting for the parts to be delivered.

My nephew's AR have an Anderson lower receiver, FosTecH Echo (binary) trigger, KAK original Shockwave brace, Diamondhead folding BUIS set, upper, barrel and aluminum handguard are just the mid to lower value components, his current buffer is the standard carbine weight.

I suggested to him to get a H3 buffer and we could just use the heavy tungsten weights one at a time to fine tune his pistol.

His BCG have a fancy coating which makes cleaning easy but I told him we don't know the long term quality of it and he might upgrade it later on.

So far his binary trigger works fine but his muzzle brake of three ports each side makes it super loud, nobody wants to shoot beside him.

I had been building mine, family and friends AR for about 15 years now, but I'm still learning new things every time I have a new build.
__________________
Colt AR-15 carbine X4, Colt MT6601 with USGI M16A2 Colt upper half 20" rifle, RRA A4 9mm 16" carbine, Steyr AUG A1 16" carbine, IMI Galil AR 16" carbine, PolyTech AKS-762 X3, Chinese SKS and USGI DCM M1 Garand, Colt 1911 Gov't Model X3, Colt Officers Lightweight, HK USP full, Sig P220 .45, Sig P226 9mm & Glock 19
NRA Life Member since 1970 * AR-15 owner since 1971
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:02 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,957
LMT makes a great BCG and isn't too expensive. The 556's do better with 10" barrels and longer. According to a young Marine, the current issue 556 SBR carbine has a 10.5" barrel.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:44 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
LMT makes a great BCG and isn't too expensive. The 556's do better with 10" barrels and longer. According to a young Marine, the current issue 556 SBR carbine has a 10.5" barrel.
This is more to produce terminal effects rather than a matter of weapon function. Using M855, a 10.5" M4 CQBR is a 50m gun. A 14.5" stretches that to 120m. Going with a 7.5" reduces it to <20m....
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:56 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
This is more to produce terminal effects rather than a matter of weapon function. Using M855, a 10.5" M4 CQBR is a 50m gun. A 14.5" stretches that to 120m. Going with a 7.5" reduces it to <20m....
Whatever. The 556 was originally designed to go with a 20" barrel M-16. To go significantly shorter, the result is more problems and reduced effectiveness. But I'm sure you'll tell us all otherwise.

Last edited by bradsvette; 06-30-2020 at 08:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:08 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Whatever. The 556 was originally designed to go with a 20" barrel M-16. To go significantly shorter, the result is more problems and reduced effectiveness. But I'm sure you'll tell us all otherwise.
Somebody's in a nasty mood this morning.....
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:20 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Home of the Infantry
Posts: 4,938
Those are great looking pistols.

Be safe with your non firing hand, I made mine a little longer just because I was worried about blowing my hand off. Turns out at almost 12Ē my hand is safe and the Ferfans CRD tames the blast a lot.

Before I got into AR pistols, I thought it was a ridiculous idea. Then I shot them and quickly figuared out how handy they are. Lightweight, powerful, accurate and easy to get in and out of the truck. I travel with mine almost always, no worries about state lines. A big deal for me.

A nice little add-on that I recommend is the https://magpul.com/ms1-ms3-qd-adapter.html I use it for hanging on a hook at home. You can shoot with it on, but I would take it off, if time permits. But it really allows for a handy way to keep the weapon stored in hidden away locations.

Adding the sling mount kit also allows for a single point sling... that stays in the truck. A practical add on.
Attached Thumbnails
93A2A123-8AD9-4AA1-8F47-54F84EC35AA9.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:27 AM
tray burge tray burge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 59
Posts: 986
Will eventually do a 300 suppressed for HD. My .556 7.5" pistol is waaay too loud for a safe house gun, but the 300 suppressed is just a "whisper"
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0447.JPG  
__________________
"Real men carry steel guns, plastic is for squirt guns" - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-30-2020, 10:01 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bullhead City, AZ, USA
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Whatever. The 556 was originally designed to go with a 20" barrel M-16. To go significantly shorter, the result is more problems and reduced effectiveness. But I'm sure you'll tell us all otherwise.
Not everyone is worried about wound/fatality effectiveness. We all aren't commandos and soldiers. Some of us just want cool looking toys that go bang at the range.

One thing for damn sure, my 7.5" barrel AR pistol may have reduced effectiveness, but I doubt that any bad guys would want to receive a hot lead or two from its chopped down muzzle.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-30-2020, 10:59 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Not everyone is worried about wound/fatality effectiveness. We all aren't commandos and soldiers. Some of us just want cool looking toys that go bang at the range.

One thing for damn sure, my 7.5" barrel AR pistol may have reduced effectiveness, but I doubt that any bad guys would want to receive a hot lead or two from its chopped down muzzle.
Lighten up Francis. I said effectiveness, not wound/fatality effectiveness. So you add words that weren't there and then make an issue of it.

Last edited by bradsvette; 06-30-2020 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:06 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Somebody's in a nasty mood this morning.....
Sorry if I was crusty.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:22 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Sorry if I was crusty.
No worries.
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:30 AM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by tray burge View Post
Will eventually do a 300 suppressed for HD. My .556 7.5" pistol is waaay too loud for a safe house gun, but the 300 suppressed is just a "whisper"
I knew that a short 5.56 was loud, but I was surprised by just HOW loud even with a flash can. Definitely not an indoors CQB weapon. Having realized that now I may swap the barrel for a 10.5" or 11.5" at a later date. Fortunately it already has a 10.5" handguard on it so it's just a matter of replacing the barrel and gas tube. It's super handy the way it's currently set up, but that's no good if I can't fire it anywhere without hearing protection.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:41 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bullhead City, AZ, USA
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Lighten up Francis. I said effectiveness, not wound/fatality effectiveness. So you add words that weren't there and then make an issue of it.
Alright then, Sir Self-righteous.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:46 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,957
I hope I'm not that way. I did chuckle when I read your post. Honestly, I think a 7.5" 556 AR pistol would be cool. I was just theorizing that the short barrel may have been causing the issue DSK mentioned, or I thought was mentioned.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:05 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 22,270
I have considered those AR pistols a time or two.

But when I keep hearing about reduced velocity/performance, high muzzle blast, watch out where you put your left hand, awkward braces. I have just kind of lost interest. In the interim I have some other options that work well for this type of weapon.

In particular for a short gun with some serious firepower, I am particularly fond of my VZ-2000. Just a hair over two feet long when folded, fold out stock there if needed. Muzzle blast is quite manageable. Plenty or reach out and slap them with the 7.62X39 round, and still legally a rifle with a 16" barrel.

Granted it is heavier than most AR pistols and will get tiresome shooting it one handed fairly quick. But I think that the pros outweigh the cons. If I ever do decide to go with something like an AR pistol. I think that I will just put in for a couple of stamps and get a suppressed SBR.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0175.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:15 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,467
Even the longer 5.56 barrels with the modern-day equivalent of 'Tiger tank' breaks on them are obnoxiously loud - at least for the guy holding the timer: me! The shorter barreled ones, while certainly popular, well, they're just not for me.

By the way, bradsvette, congratulations on the knighthood!!!! I had no idea.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:29 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,780
I built the .300BLK pistol first, as at the time I didn't want to bother with a short 5.56. Then I had all the teething issues with it at first, plus the cost of .300BLK ammo was quickly going to put me in the poor house. And so I decided to build my second lower into a 5.56 pistol just to have something I can afford the ammo for, if nothing else. Now that I have both... the .300 is far more practical in short guns like this. There isn't as much velocity loss with the .300 out of a short barrel since that's what it was designed for, plus the blast is definitely milder than a 5.56. I just wish the cost of the ammo would go down more. Of course in the current panic situation I actually found it to be the same price as 5.56mm at my LGS last weekend, although that wasn't saying much considering what they were selling the 5.56 ammo for.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 06-30-2020 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:57 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 22,270
Not trying to go off topic.

But ammo in general is up thirty to forty percent across the board according to what I am seeing.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-30-2020, 01:14 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Home of the Infantry
Posts: 4,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I knew that a short 5.56 was loud, but I was surprised by just HOW loud even with a flash can.
My experiances with AR pistols led me to FERFANS Concusive Reduction Device (CRD). I believe it is the best product of its kind. It is still loud, but it is nowhere near as loud as when you remove it. I donít see any muzzle blast in daylight. It cost me a fortune several years ago, but I have seen them recently at a more reasonable prices. I use the it on my 16Ē barrel too, the brake was rated as one of the best several years ago. When I shoot in the prone I slide it on - no dust, signature or debris... it adds some weight, so I donít use it often on my Carbine, but nice to have if I am not moving.
Attached Thumbnails
73F6DA6E-C52D-487A-99FA-82FE18364C35.jpeg   C75EC767-177A-4338-8745-80E3C9E3C582.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:26 PM
Ricky T's Avatar
Ricky T Ricky T is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Age: 57
Posts: 13,196
Does the flash can device really help redirect the muzzle blasts of the short barrel considerably?

P.S. A couple of you (maybe just one that started it) should consider calming down, think twice before you type and call another member cutesy name, right in front of an admin in his post.
__________________
Liking a Glock is a Version of Stockholm Syndrome. Nobody likes it but they get used to it in time.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:41 PM
VoceNoctum VoceNoctum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Fla
Posts: 1,271
Obviously you should just put a silencer on everything, but assuming that's not the path you want to go...

Since my ARX100 in 10.5" is dirty with a silencer, I decided to shoot it with a regular a2 hider. Blast was obnoxious, as it should be, so I got a vortex flash hider and while it's still loud, it cuts the blast (flash for sure, concussion maybe) way down and doesn't feel as obnoxious when I shoot it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:46 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bullhead City, AZ, USA
Posts: 739
PWS has this flash suppressor designed primarily for super short barrels in .223 and .30 calibers. It supposed helps with the muzzle blast. I shoot with both earplugs and earmuffs so the noise isn’t an issue but this flash suppressor does seem to attenuate the fireball a bit.

https://www.primaryweapons.com/product-url-5232
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-30-2020, 04:29 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,780
The PSA flash can is nothing but a non-vented 3" long cylinder that fits on the muzzle. It looks more like a deep socket for an air impact wrench than something that belongs on a firearm. I'm definitely not going to take it off though just to see how much difference it makes.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:40 PM
Ricky T's Avatar
Ricky T Ricky T is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Age: 57
Posts: 13,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The PSA flash can is nothing but a non-vented 3" long cylinder that fits on the muzzle. It looks more like a deep socket for an air impact wrench than something that belongs on a firearm. I'm definitely not going to take it off though just to see how much difference it makes.
What do you think of the clone flash hider that duplicate the look of the XM177E2 moderator? It's pretty much a 5" tube but it does have the flash slots. Do you think they are better at keeping the blast down more so than the A2 device?
__________________
Liking a Glock is a Version of Stockholm Syndrome. Nobody likes it but they get used to it in time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved