1911Forum banner

Cabot

8K views 54 replies 30 participants last post by  UpperMW 
#1 ·
Does anyone on this forum own or have handled a Cabot. Just wondering if it lives up to the hype.
 
#3 ·
I had a chance to handle a few at the nra convention. Honestly I wasn't impressed. Sure they look neat, have pimp styling if that is your thing, and the matched set is cool, but they just didn't have that 1911 heft I have grown so fond of. But some looked neat, though in my opinion they were over the top. My wife didn't like any of the examples they had. Also with their asking price there is a ton of options. I know that the 2 Republic Forge 1911s I have run like tops and are built like tanks. I am looking now into getting a longslide damascus gun, possibly in 10mm, which is about as far over the top as I want to go
 
#4 ·
Cabot pistols seem to elicit a lot of strong feelings from 1911 fans. Most folks who look at them seem to feel they're hideously overpriced for what they are, yet the list of rich & famous people who own one (or a matched pair) is constantly growing. They're becoming a name unto themselves, like saying you own a Rolex watch. The fact that a Casio does the job just as well is probably a moot point if you're trying to impress a potential employer or girlfriend.
 
#5 ·
Rob B. and Mike H. have a very unique vision for Cabot Guns. It has really taken me a while to "get it", but I think that I am there now.

Cabot Guns are for the guy that says "I want to be different". They are for the guy that doesn't want to own the same gun everyone else in the neighborhood has. Are you that guy, or are you just a follower?
 
#6 · (Edited)
What's different about them besides claiming superior machine work and an inflated price tag?

That's a serious question Rob. Is there more to Cabot than them proving the saying "If you want to sell more in the custom market, just charge more".

Please give a little more detail on their build philosophy and what they offer that any custom gun maker can't provide. Again, serious questions. I'm genuinely curious.

Cabot will be one of my first stops at SHOT if they have a booth.
 
#7 ·
It's mostly the move away from traditional styling cues. Either you like it or you don't. Things that aren't popular with the 1911 "purist" are the things that they go for. Star trigger...different cocking serrations...the way they dovetail their front sight...just some styling cues off the top of my head.

They are trying to take the platform in a 21st century direction as opposed to simply repeating what everyone else has already done. It's evolving and changing every single day. We have discussed a completely new idea in double stack 1911's that will definitely drop some jaws.

They will definitely be at SHOT. I am polishing a gun that's going to be displayed right now.
 
#9 ·
Everyone has an opinion, but you have to realize that they are not trying to appeal to the typical 1911 buyer at all. When you finally come to grips with that, it will start to make a bit more sense. They are still a "toddler" as a company and are growing up fast. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I had much negativity early on like most others. Once I realized that they are not merely in it to make money, that's when I started to come around. They're very passionate about being different. There's something to be said for having conviction and staying with it.
 
#10 ·
It's not a very original angle but it's a great business model as long as it lasts. For this particular market it's probably a long time. And the best part of it is that you never have to warranty anything. All these are going to be safe queens for spoiled rich people who want to show them to their scotch drinking, Maserati driving buddies. It's just another manhood extension for top end "clients".
 
#13 ·
Metaphor-
noun | met·a·phor
: a word or phrase for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar
: an object, activity, or idea that is used as a symbol of something else
 
#16 ·
Last time I checked, Wilson sells pistols north of $6k. Stan Chen's guns start even higher than that. It's a "whatever the market bears" situation. You don't determine that via your internet gun forum education. The buyer determines that.

If you think they're no good, I have one of their Bullseye pistols on my desk that I can send you for a test drive that I'm sure will change your mind. Here's the procedure for their Bullseye gun. This is simplified, but I know of no one in the business that keeps these kind of records.

Step 1.) Put barrel in test fixture.
Step 2.) Fire 10 rounds at 50 yards.
Step 3.) Record group results. If barrel fails, it goes back to the supplier.
Step 4.) Laser etch barrel with numeric code that goes w/test data (only passing barrels)
Step 5.) Build pistol using the barrel. (bushing is hand fit 100%)
Step 6.) Ransom Rest Pistol at 50 yards.
Step 7.) If pistol fails 1.5" 10 shot group test, it's not sold. If it passes, it gets shipped.

Fixtured barrels as well as complete pistols are tested with ASYM N.M. 185gr JHP's.

I'm about to Ransom Rest this gun to see what I get with Federal 185 grain Gold Medal Match JSWC's.
 
#41 ·
Last time I checked, Wilson sells pistols north of $6k. Stan Chen's guns start even higher than that. It's a "whatever the market bears" situation. You don't determine that via your internet gun forum education. The buyer determines that.

If you think they're no good, I have one of their Bullseye pistols on my desk that I can send you for a test drive that I'm sure will change your mind. Here's the procedure for their Bullseye gun. This is simplified, but I know of no one in the business that keeps these kind of records.

Step 1.) Put barrel in test fixture.
Step 2.) Fire 10 rounds at 50 yards.
Step 3.) Record group results. If barrel fails, it goes back to the supplier.
Step 4.) Laser etch barrel with numeric code that goes w/test data (only passing barrels)
Step 5.) Build pistol using the barrel. (bushing is hand fit 100%)
Step 6.) Ransom Rest Pistol at 50 yards.
Step 7.) If pistol fails 1.5" 10 shot group test, it's not sold. If it passes, it gets shipped.

Fixtured barrels as well as complete pistols are tested with ASYM N.M. 185gr JHP's.

I'm about to Ransom Rest this gun to see what I get with Federal 185 grain Gold Medal Match JSWC's.

I don't think they are worth the money. Better send it to me so I can prove myself wrong......:rolleyes:
 
#17 ·
No pistol is worth 6k regardless of what it can do or who makes it. That is bragging rights only territory as far as I am concerned.

It's nothing against them or anyone else. Like I said it's a old business model and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just my opinion.
 
#18 ·
I totally understand where you're coming from. I come from the same place, really.

Holland & Holland sells shotguns and bolt action rifles. Not only do they sell guns, they sell a lifestyle. That's the key. You want to sell an emotion not just a lifeless hunk of metal. That's what Harley Davidson did in the 1990's. They started selling a lifestyle, not just a motorcycle. Their sales went off the charts and they continue to do a great business today. Once you transcend your product, it becomes something much more.
 
#21 ·
Cabot guns really do not appeal to the typical 1911 customer. I believe that the typical 1911 customer is buying a pistol to achieve the best performance for the $1 spent. That goes in an order roughly: low cost production $300-$700; mid class production $700-$1300; high end production $1300-$2200; semi-custom $2200-$4100; full custom $2000-$7000ish.

As you see, the 1911 buyer begins to value the precision craftsmanship of hand built and fitting around $1500 and wants every dollar over that to work towards some ideal in their mind that only a hand crafted gun for them can achieve.

Cabot is working off what I call the Japanese model that say the finest things in life are produced on a near zero tolerance machine and assembled more to confirm fit and function than to do any fitting. Again, the idea is to deliver the highest quality machined piece that need no fitting, polishing, etc.

I think they are trying to combine that with lifestyle sales too...as in Rolex, Lamborghini, Harley perhaps, H&H or Westley Richards. What is weird, is that these all follow the hand fitted model.

So, to me, their message is confusing. Also, what does the Cabot owner do that I don't?? That story probably gets told at the Scottsdale Gun Club after the guns are put back in storage and the scotch starts flowing. I probably don't get it because I shoot outside, wear my DW home from the range loaded and I sip on bourbon after the guns are put away in my home!

Alchemy,
I respect your work and would imagine you are the best gun polisher in the world, but Cabots get hand polished? I would imagine them under cut with a specific CNC controlled process to polish to a final dimension. Something highly controlled by fixturing with feeds and pressures tightly controlled, no? Hand polishing kind of breaks their every part is perfect recipe, doesn't it?
 
#22 ·
.
there's "a guy" on every forum - you know, the one that buys used pick-em-up trucks and touts the beauty of his double wide trailer..and at the same time begrudges anyone who is able to afford a new vehicle or a real, honest to goodness, home - thinks a corvette is the world's best sports car (tho he'll never be able to buy one - a "credit" problem, dontcha know..)

a used (new to him) computer 5 years ago and loves to see his words on the internet

yep, one on every forum
 
#29 ·
Now hold on just a second. Tell me about your sports car that's better than my 2015 ZO6. Gee, let me guess, a Porsche? So what do you drive, a freaking 215 horsepower Boxter or some other woman-mobile? Not only will I blow your doors off in a drag-race, I guarantee that I can go around any corner faster than you can, whatever kind of Porsche you have.
 
#23 ·
A couple manufacturers are trying the "lifestyle" approach so I can see the marketing aspect of it. Sig's "Legion" series of guns comes to mind.

It's all about branding. Although, 11.5K for their flagship 1911 is a little tough to choke down :) They must be doing something right though. They are accepting wait list orders for 2016 for them.

Kudos to them for trying something different.
 
#24 ·
I agree with Nathan's last paragraph.
Why are Cabot outsourcing hand polishing?
Why do they need to hand fit a bushing?

Why do they offer the S series where "Each pistol’s frame and slide receive a personal hand fitting in the final stages of assembly, ensuring that your S class is unlike any other" after so loudly touting the virtues of "clone technology" to make their main line guns interchangeable?
And why do these conventionally assembled guns cost less than the "clones?"
I have been reading for decades that "modern manufacturing technology" was going to make high quality guns "affordable." Ken Waters is probably still looking for that production line double express rifle he predicted in 1957.

Everybody focuses on the flashy styling, but I am interested in the guns as guns and how they differ from other brands besides the advertising.
Is Brian Zins still shooting a Cabot?
 
#25 ·
The S Class costs less because they are built in a different facility on different CNC equipment.

They don't outsource polishing. I am polishing a one off engraved piece for Shot Show. The polishing can be more tricky due to the engraving. It's actually a touch up on the original polish.
 
#32 ·
Yes, a lot of "us folks" do like them. And I'm sure your characterization wasn't meant to be condescending, right? Have you read any articles about sports cars lately? The ZO6 has destroyed every other sports car on road courses all over the country in every single comparison test. By "road courses" I mean racing venues composed of numerous turns in a closed course, like Road Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, Barber Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. Heck, it even beat the million dollar Porsche 918 around VIR (Virginia International Raceway). The term "muscle car" doesn't apply to the Corvette anymore, but Porsche owners can't be swayed by the facts.
 
#33 ·
Steering (ha!) this conversation back onto the topic of Cabot Guns...

I guess like a lot of guys who have already commented on this thread, I'm not so much against Cabot as I am confused by them. 7 large buys anyone a whole lot of custom, hand-fitted 1911 from any of the top shelf custom guys currently alive. When they came out I thought to myself; "Wow, 7 grand for a 1911? That had better be a very well made, hand fitted, hand finished pistol." And the company basically replied, "No, you plebeian! These aren't hand fitted and finished guns, they're machine fitted and finished guns made using the absolute state-of-the-art aerospace level CNC equipment, because our machines produce results even better than hand fitting!" To which I said, "Sounds great, so then if they're being made mostly by machine they should sell for less than a hand fitted gun, right?" And Cabot said, "No, that's the best part; they cost way MORE!" I hope my confusion is understandable. :scratch:
 
#35 ·
Steering (ha!) this conversation back onto the topic of Cabot Guns...
an excellent idea

of course there are those that appreciate Cabot's workmanship but I simply don't care for the bling (that I've seen while perusing their website)

I don't like rollmarks and cocking serrations - don't care for the "stars" in the triggers

just my personal taste
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top