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  #1  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:36 AM
Mr. Lee Mr. Lee is offline
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45 acp over pressure with Accurate #7

Recently I switched from Unique/Universal to Accurate #7 because it meters more consistently in the autodisk I reload with, fills the case more, and I also use it for another round. In the past I have had pretty good luck just going with published starting loads and working up based on feedback from the gun and brass, but it was beating up my gun so I finally went out with the chrony to get some numbers. Based on the powely computer model I'm way over pressure. I'm not sure why my results are disparate , am I missing something?

all of my manuals list 45 acp 230gr lead bullet, 9.9gr accurate #7 with estimated 862fps and 19400psi

my load:
9.9gr Accurate #7
KVB-45 primer
oal 1.270 inches
bullet cast from lyman #2 lead alloy, lee 90350 mold, tumble lubed with liquid alox
weight is 230-232gr
bullet length .665 inches
bullet diameter .452 swedged

Para ordnance 14-45 limited, 5 inch barrel .450/.444 bore.

average velocity is 966fps which the powley computer comes out to 37000psi
it's not until I drop all the way down to 7.5gr with an average velocity of 712fps that I get a safe pressure of 19000psi, and that still is somewhat flattening primers and cycles the gun fine, which has a 23# spring right now. ???
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2020, 07:25 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Is that 9.9 on the very high end of loading recommendations? If so, it appears that the powder runs away on a pressure spike near that. Why in the world the 7.5 would still flatten a primer?? I donít have that data in front of me, but it sounds like something has perhaps been miscalculated?
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2020, 07:28 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
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How is the powder being measured ?
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2020, 07:38 AM
JBnTX JBnTX is offline
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Put away your fancy calculating computer, switch to a more suitable 45acp powder, and follow the load data in a good reputable load manual.

You're over thinking and over complicating your reloading.

There are far better powders for the 45acp than AA#7.
AA#7 is a slow powder and works best at or near maximum pressure.

Switch to a faster powder and start with a lower velocity and lower pressure load.


.

Last edited by JBnTX; 01-06-2020 at 07:42 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2020, 07:45 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I was going to bring that up after I looked at the Hornady and Lyman books next to me and neither list it. Doesnít mean much, but to the OP, what is your reference source. I have seen some real doozy misprints and crazy charge tables based on using ridiculous test fixtures.
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2020, 09:06 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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Better to research bullet and powder combos to try before buying or stay with ole standards . Run a Bing search n 45acp and accurate #7 and its easy to see that it has been one of those problem powders for many home loaders for many years when picking the wrong bullet . That's a warning for me in general to avoid it .
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2020, 09:29 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Accurate Powders shows abundant data for AA7 in .45 ACP. There is a lot of difference from bullet to bullet of the same weight. 9.9 gr is the starting load for their cast bullet but it is at or near the maximum for some jacketed or plated.

I think your Lee bullet has some characteristic that is building pressure and velocity more than the book says.

I think the Powley Computer is outside its calibration range for plugging in pistol calibers and powders.

My action would be to adjust the load to give 800 fps or so and motor on.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2020, 09:55 AM
Mr. Lee Mr. Lee is offline
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9.9gr is the starting load, 11gr max.

Powder is measured by volume with a lee auto disk, which I verify periodically with a scale.

My sources are Accutate powders online load data tables, a print booklet from Accurate, Modern Reloading 2nd edition, and powderthrough.com. my hornady manual doesn't list any cast lead loads and lyman cast bullet handbook doesn't list any accurate powders.

I'm trying to move to a spherical powder and probably just going to switch loads to cfe or 231, but I would like to know why my results with #7 for 45acp are so far off what is published? It has been working well and fairly predictably in cast lead 9mm loads: 9x19, 9x20 browning long, 38 acp, 38 super, and 9mm largo.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:03 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Beats me, it just is.

What are you loading 9mm Browning Long for? A 1903 FN or Husky that did not get mutilated to .380? Or something strange like a Webley or Le Francais?
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:37 AM
Mr. Lee Mr. Lee is offline
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Yep, FN 1903. The original barrel was ringed but I found a replacement in 9x20 that works great.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2020, 10:43 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Put away your fancy calculating computer, switch to a more suitable 45acp powder, and follow the load data in a good reputable load manual.

You're over thinking and over complicating your reloading.

There are far better powders for the 45acp than AA#7.
AA#7 is a slow powder and works best at or near maximum pressure.

Switch to a faster powder and start with a lower velocity and lower pressure load...
This. There are a bazillion better powders than what you've chosen.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:16 PM
AZ Desertrat AZ Desertrat is offline
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I like AA#7 too....but it is more suitable to higher pressure cartridges like 9mm, 357 Sig etc....It will work...BUT start at the low end is my recommendation.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:48 PM
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RickB RickB is offline
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966fps with a 230 is definitely hot, +P, but nowhere near .45 Super levels of velocity, which runs at only 28k psi.

I was running over 13 grains of #7 in .45 Super, was getting 200+fps more velocity than you are, with zero pressure signs.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:59 PM
july19 july19 is offline
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Accurate recommends #7 for: 357 Sig; 38 Super and .40 S&W. I would stick with what the manufacturer knows.
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2020, 07:36 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by july19 View Post
Accurate recommends #7 for: 357 Sig; 38 Super and .40 S&W. I would stick with what the manufacturer knows.
Thatís just it, their website shows tons of loads for the 45. It also shows a bunch of +P. I was looking to see if they said not recommended for the ACP but they donít.
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  #16  
Old 01-10-2020, 01:14 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by july19 View Post
Accurate recommends #7 for: 357 Sig; 38 Super and .40 S&W. I would stick with what the manufacturer knows.
Powder manufacturers are in the business to make MONEY!

It cracks me up how "we" as reloaders think we can outsmart their recommendations by "trying stuff" to make it better!

If we don't see a recipe it is because the manufacturer has run laboratory tests and the powder/cartridge combination does not meet satisfactory performance or is just plain unsafe.

Looking at loading data across several manuals can vary greatly because of slight variations in components and environmental conditions.

Reloading is a much an art as a science. Follow manufacturers recommendations but be aware that "your mileage may vary"!

All the best in 2020,
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Last edited by jjfitch; 01-10-2020 at 10:51 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2020, 01:21 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Accurate shows 9.9 gr as the starting load with the harder than #2 alloy 230gr RN from Laser Cast with a 1.230" COL. I'm not sure what is going on with your program-perhaps if you have the bullet set out so far you don't have a jump to the lands?

Regardless, while Western Powders lists #7 for the .45 ACP I haven't bothered even buying any for that application. There is no doubting that the Accurate powders meter better than Unique and I understand wanting to use something different.

Give the Accurate #5 a try in .45 ACP. For upper end loads it is my favorite in that round and it does well in middle loads for .357 Mag also.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:45 PM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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I run AA 7 in the 400 corbon to hot rod 155 jhp.
In 45 ACP I run bullseye
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2020, 04:54 PM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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I use lots of AA#7 for 9mm and .40. For .45 I use AA#5 or #2.. #2 seems to shoot softer.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:52 PM
CT911 CT911 is offline
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I've never understood whats wrong with Bullseye unless you want to splurge on VV 310. You can't do any better than those two.

Last edited by CT911; 01-10-2020 at 07:17 PM. Reason: tiippo
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:38 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT911 View Post
I've never understood whats wrong with Bullseye unless you want to splurge on VV 310. You can't do any better than those two.
Accurate #2 and #5 meter better and are cleaner in their upper ranges than the nitro and coal mixture known as BE and cost far less than any of the VV offerings. I don't have a ransom rest and I can't shoot my recycled wheel weights rapid fire in small enough groups to be sure of the difference. Minute of Malefactor is plenty accurate for me and the velocity edge offered by #5 may be the extra energy to make that XTP perform as advertised.

Sure, Bullseye still makes accurate ammo and it is after all what Noah used when he paced the deck of the Ark with his 1911 but what the heck...give something sorta new a chance!
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Last edited by Capt. Methane; 01-10-2020 at 08:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:12 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Not to diss anything the Capt has said, but there are still a gazillion of us that routinely fall back to Bullseye and 231 for our pet loads. Some of these are pretty darn hard to beat from a result standpoint. Yup, Iíll give anything a try, but I have too damn much of the before mentioned powder to consider changing over. Plus, I donít want to!
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2020, 12:05 PM
wv109323 wv109323 is offline
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I shoot NRA bullseye pistol. I would guess that 50% of the shooters I know still use Bullseye powder in their 1911's. Our loads are 750-800 fps with mostly 200 g. SWC bullets. If Noah packed a1911 on the Ark, the powder was Bullseye. Both the 1911 pistol and Bullseye powder are good choices today.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:51 PM
glider glider is offline
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Bullseye, Unique, 231 and 2400 and I'm set for about anything !
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:50 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider View Post
Bullseye, Unique, 231 and 2400 and I'm set for about anything !
Those four powders will do just about anything in the normal handgun world (not sure the rifle pressure X-frame cartridges qualify as normal!) and do it very well and if I didn't have any other choices I would be happy with them. I've used all four to good effect and have some of each around actually.

But I found the Accurate powders and I like them a bit better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro .45
Not to diss anything the Capt has said, but there are still a gazillion of us that routinely fall back to Bullseye and 231 for our pet loads. Some of these are pretty darn hard to beat from a result standpoint. Yup, I’ll give anything a try, but I have too damn much of the before mentioned powder to consider changing over. Plus, I don’t want to!
No worries-in fact, if I could still get the Sierra .41 220gr FPJ bullet I may never have dabbled with H-110 or Accurate #9 because for magnum loads in .41 Mag I had a superbly accurate load with 2400 that worked well in both the Marlin and the -57. I'm kind of late to the .45ACP party so I didn't have time to get settled on any of the "traditional" powders-though I do have a large jug of HP-38 to back my cast 200gr lswc's in the 1911's and light loads in .38Spl because yeah, it's very good.

Pet loads are great-I'll bet there are lots of folks out there still backing 148gr hbwc's with about 2.7gr of Red Dot for .38spl target loads!
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Last edited by Capt. Methane; 01-14-2020 at 09:03 PM.
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