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  #1  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:55 PM
Hopknockious Hopknockious is offline
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Home gunsmithing....

Ok, maybe this is just my observation, but I cannot shake the fact that it makes sense.

I read these general posts in this subforum.
1. Is it hard to replace "X"? or Do I need to have a gunsmith fix "X"?

2. I'm stuck trying to fix "X". These are the things i have tried, etc.

3. Mostly done with awesome home Smith or professional work and want opinions,etc

Now, these are all fine. It seems like there has been a lot more type 1 posts of late. Not that this is bad, but a lot of those posts come from people who have no idea how the guns work (ok, learning) or who know just enough to be in over their heads. It's actually scary to think an overconfident file jocky has already done things to the gun and thinks they know what is wrong, etc.

Maybe it's just my impression, but if it's in fact right, it's rather disconcerting.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Hopknockious; 06-19-2017 at 07:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2017, 07:07 PM
Slow bullet guy Slow bullet guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopknockious View Post
Ok, maybe this of just me observation, but I cannot shake the fact that it makes sense.

I read these general posts in this subforum.
1. Is it hard to replace "X"? or Do I need to have a gunsmith fix "X"?

2. I'm stuck trying to fix "X". These are the things i have tried, etc.

3. Mostly done with awesome home Smith or professional work and want opinions,etc

Now, these are all fine. It seems like there has been a lot more type 1 posts of late. Not that this is bad, but a lot of those posts come from people who have no idea how the guns work (ok, learning) or who know just enough to be in over their heads. It's actually scary to think an overconfident file jocky has already done things to the gun and thinks they know what is wrong, etc.

Maybe it's just my impression, but if it's in fact right, it's rather disconcerting.

Thoughts?
Yeah, you are right. There is nothing wrong with asking "is it hard to do this?", but the questions happen more and more with each passing year. The problem is that folks want instant feedback without having to do the leg work. I see it in the handloading section all the time... "hey, I need load data for this bullet and this powder". I suppose it is the same thing.

God forbid the days when we actually have to go to the library and study the subject we are interested in. I'm sure that would be "hard" for a lot of people.

When I think of a project I want to do, I always wonder "will this be hard?", but at some point it isn't a matter of whether it is hard or not, "hard" might just be a small part of the big picture. "Hard" might just mean that you have to roll up your sleeves and adapt.

I just realized, the last two things I mentioned are dying qualities.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:04 PM
chaswaldo chaswaldo is offline
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Im older but it is so easy to research anything these days.I think people are lazy.
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:05 PM
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I've been doing a lot of my own gunsmithing for better than 50 years. Some of the early work was downright poor. Maybe even hazardous. I now know what I can do and what I should leave to someone else. Just because something is hard is no reason not to do it. If you don't want to spend the time, money, and patience to learn to do the job correctly, leave it to someone else.
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:05 PM
passx passx is offline
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I love the challenge of doing things that I've never done before and really appreciate the in[uts from here. Part of all this is researching how to do things properly and buying and reading material on the subject matter is all part of it plus the internet is a good resource but needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Doing a trigger job on several of my guns and having everything work perfectly and proper (triggers, safeties, etc, all needs to be checked for proper function) is deeply satisfying but think about the people that do no reasearch and just start filing and cutting things and they were setting next to you at the diner with their "customized" 1 1/2lb trigger gun sticking out of their pants,,,,,, scary !
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:42 PM
racoonbeast60 racoonbeast60 is offline
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Some things I can do. Some things I can't do. I have screwed some things up figuring out exactly which is which, but sometimes that has lead to me discovering that there is one more thing that I actually can do, if I try a second time. Then, of course, there are the ones that go the other way.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:49 PM
frogfurr frogfurr is online now
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I'm guilty of asking these types of questions. It helps with the research by giving me a place to start looking.
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:46 PM
Thomas Matthew Thomas Matthew is offline
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Ed, I'm in doubt you have ever done anything "downright poor". I have your sight pusher and it oozes quality and precision.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:30 AM
BruceM BruceM is offline
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Quote:
The problem is that folks want instant feedback without having to do the leg work. I see it in the handloading section all the time... "hey, I need load data for this bullet and this powder".
My emphasis added to the above quote.

Especially as it pertains to the handloading sub-forum, this is the absolute fact. Nobody wants to put in the time to learn the skill. They just want to throw some ammo together so they can continue their shooting hobby. Folks must feel that it's ok for somebody else to put in the time and effort, then pick their brain for the information they want and be on their merry way. Handloading in not a good field of endeavor for folks like that and you can see evidence of this fact in the problems that need a resolution in that forum. A lot of folks don't have even a basic understanding of what they're doing, why they're doing it, etc.. They just want to yank on the handle and have ammo appear.

Bruce
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:41 AM
BillTK7 BillTK7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaswaldo View Post
Im older but it is so easy to research anything these days.I think people are lazy.
Agree, and sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty and learn while working through it. The virtual world is nice for reference and research, but you need to lay your hands on it for the real action.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:03 AM
Hopknockious Hopknockious is offline
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Originally Posted by frogfurr View Post
I'm guilty of asking these types of questions. It helps with the research by giving me a place to start looking.
I really don't want you to feel guilty about asking questions, and I apologize if I made you feel that way.

My point was more clearly paraphrased in some of the other posts.

It's the fact that some people are trying to get a super light trigger (great example passx) or fitting a barrel, etc that have no idea how it actually works. Then they come asking if it's ok or safe.

In my mind asking these questions before starting is the key. This seems to not happen very often.

Conversely, if someone does not even bother to search for the basics of the guns operation before assuming they can fit a gun from parts.

It's just crazy to me.

Your posts (and I did search them) are very thoughtful and show not only understanding but the limits of your understanding. I'm sure I did not mean anyone like you when I wrote the opening post.

Last edited by Hopknockious; 06-19-2017 at 07:59 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:46 AM
RichG RichG is offline
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If I take your point, you're suggesting that those people with limited experience, who want to work on their own guns, ask questions before trying to fit something out of an abundance of safety, right? And that those people, whose pride may inhibit their better angels from stopping a bravado attempt to make a change to their gun(s) or do something that will result in an unsafe gun, might consider extra research and practice before fiddling. Having a thorough working knowledge of the gun will likely not happen in these cases.

I think you accomplished your worried message at the expense of publicly shaming some people, albeit anonymously, from posting questions as evidenced by some replies above. Your intentions, though, are well founded and will hopefully include more front-end questions rather than desperate pleas for help.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:24 PM
BradLH BradLH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopknockious View Post
I read these general posts in this subforum.
1. Is it hard to replace "X"? or Do I need to have a gunsmith fix "X"?
If you do need a competent gunsmith to fix "X" on a 1911, BHP, or revolver I wish you luck finding someone who doesn't have a months long waiting list.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:51 PM
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I think there is also the new generation of home "gunsmith" who has assembled an AR or three (refers to 1911 frame as "lower"), and thinks the next step is assembling a 1911, not realizing that it's like buying puzzles from ten different companies and expecting the pieces to swap.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:51 PM
BradLH BradLH is offline
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Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Folks must feel that it's ok for somebody else to put in the time and effort, then pick their brain for the information they want and be on their merry way.
Isn't that the preferred way to learn something if one is willing to share their knowledge? I've never felt a need to re-invent the wheel.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:54 PM
boatdoc boatdoc is offline
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since my past efforts to"repair" things in the home resulted in left over parts on occasion . I am very cautious about what I try to fix on my own( sink traps ok, plugged up drains ok, maybe a vacuum or clogged carberator)

I can field strip, detail strip to a point, replace a spring or 2 if needed. beyond that, unless I have proper instruction(really good youtube video, book, someone to help), I use a professional. peace of mind is worth a lot
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:02 PM
Hopknockious Hopknockious is offline
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I think there is also the new generation of home "gunsmith" who has assembled an AR or three (refers to 1911 frame as "lower"), and thinks the next step is assembling a 1911, not realizing that it's like buying puzzles from ten different companies and expecting the pieces to swap.
I was just thinking that... It's like you read my mind
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:08 PM
Hopknockious Hopknockious is offline
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Originally Posted by RichG View Post
If I take your point, you're suggesting that those people with limited experience, who want to work on their own guns, ask questions before trying to fit something out of an abundance of safety, right? And that those people, whose pride may inhibit their better angels from stopping a bravado attempt to make a change to their gun(s) or do something that will result in an unsafe gun, might consider extra research and practice before fiddling. Having a thorough working knowledge of the gun will likely not happen in these cases.

I think you accomplished your worried message at the expense of publicly shaming some people, albeit anonymously, from posting questions as evidenced by some replies above. Your intentions, though, are well founded and will hopefully include more front-end questions rather than desperate pleas for help.
I think you have the point well in hand. I happen to disagree that I am attempting to publicly or anonymously shame other users into not posting, considering I just apologized to someone in the post above yours.

I was hoping that my impressions were not my being crazy, and I feel vindicated.

We are still talking about guns and ammunition, so I will worry about hurt feelings well after I worry about physical safety. Maybe i could have phrased it better, but as you note, my hope is that people ask more questions first. I really love the 1911 and pistols in general. Anyone that wants to lean more about them will find a friend in me.
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:44 PM
RichG RichG is offline
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Originally Posted by Hopknockious View Post
I think you have the point well in hand. I happen to disagree that I am attempting to publicly or anonymously shame other users into not posting, considering I just apologized to someone in the post above yours.
I think we agree and, to clarify, I didn't think your intention was to shame, but my point was it was a byproduct, and an unintended one at that as evidenced by your thoughtful apology above. You're right that emotions are high because of pride, overconfidence and sometimes the sentiment attached to some of the guns we own.

Best... Rich
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  #20  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:01 PM
Slow bullet guy Slow bullet guy is offline
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Originally Posted by BradLH View Post
Isn't that the preferred way to learn something if one is willing to share their knowledge? I've never felt a need to re-invent the wheel.
It is in many things. In the world of firearms, tolerances mean everything. Most of the time when questions are asked (on the level of what the OP is saying), there are very few black and white answers. Things tend to stack a certain way when gunsmithing. What works easily on one 1911 might be a big PITA on another. These things are hard to predict much of the time.

In the world of handloading, I've seen where charges that should be small (according to data) produce max velocities and pressures. It all amounts to how things stack.

Many of these questions can only be answered by doing. Also, you can't be afraid to screw up. Hindsight is the best teacher I've ever had.
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  #21  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:02 PM
Hopknockious Hopknockious is offline
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Originally Posted by RichG View Post
I think we agree and, to clarify, I didn't think your intention was to shame, but my point was it was a byproduct, and an unintended one at that as evidenced by your thoughtful apology above. You're right that emotions are high because of pride, overconfidence and sometimes the sentiment attached to some of the guns we own.

Best... Rich
You are much more eloquent than I. Thank you for your posts.
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  #22  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:57 PM
BruceM BruceM is offline
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Isn't that the preferred way to learn something if one is willing to share their knowledge? I've never felt a need to re-invent the wheel.
It's not about re-inventing the wheel and if the there is a need to explain the difference; well, that speaks volumes.

Bruce
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:18 PM
BradLH BradLH is offline
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Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
It's not about re-inventing the wheel
Sure it is. Let's say you and I both have an XYZ 1911 and you have a proven load you're willing to share. There's no reason for me to waste the time, effort, and expense to work one up if I can just use yours.

Last edited by BradLH; 06-19-2017 at 10:58 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-20-2017, 12:09 AM
BBBBill BBBBill is online now
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Originally Posted by BradLH View Post
Sure it is. Let's say you and I both have an XYZ 1911 and you have a proven load you're willing to share. There's no reason for me to waste the time, effort, and expense to work one up if I can just use yours.
But what if the chamber on your barrel is cut to tighter tolerances than his? What if your throat/leade is shorter? What if your bore is smaller by .0005"?What if your headspace is tighter? What if two or more of the above is true? If so, what is a safe max load in his gun could wreck yours. Firearms and ammo are one place that assumptions can ruin your day at a minimum. I've witnessed that on more than one occasion.
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  #25  
Old 06-20-2017, 12:36 AM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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First thing in this post is there is no intent to offend.

I don't think it is the sharing of information, procedure or experience which is being criticized. It seems to be more the effort expended in performing the necessary background research and assimilation of that research. Many individuals want a rote process but fail to try and understand what they are doing. How anyone wants to work like that I have no idea. My favorite is fitting a full gs fit barrel...."I did x, y and z. Here is the problem... I am supposed to use this link...I'll just install the link then continue fitting the lugs". Huh?

Many of those individuals want answers but fail to be able to apply the information in any way except the rote manner in which it was sought out. As pointed out, that indicates learning was not the goal...the querie was meerly a way to an end. Much of the time the individual may not have ambition, strong aptitudes nor the intelligences needed in the realm they are working in. I am a life long auto technician and an educator and I can tell you there are differing intelligences. So the quest for the rote procedure goes on...
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Last edited by Magnumite; 06-20-2017 at 12:44 AM.
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