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  #1  
Old 06-16-2017, 04:14 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Officer in Castile shooting cleared of wrongdoing

There has to be something here that the mainstream news media hasn't told us. Everything I read said that Mr. Castile was shot seconds after informing the officer that he was carrying a firearm and that he had a carry permit. The jury apparently believed the officer's claim that he was attempting to draw his pistol. If anyone has a link to the actual facts of the case I'd like to see it, because what I know about it so far is a bit disconcerting regarding getting pulled over while having your CCW on you.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-stil...050536597.html
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:36 PM
45'r 45'r is offline
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One of the better writeup using the defense experts testimony.

http://www.brainerddispatch.com/news...ooting-castile

Will update after speaking with a S/A in MN.
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Last edited by 45'r; 06-16-2017 at 04:39 PM.
  #3  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:07 PM
barksdale barksdale is offline
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Acquitted on ALL counts? Not even "intentional discharge of firearm that endangers safety"???

C'mon now.

No matter what you think of the man who was shot, how do you justify pumping 7 shots into a car with a 4 year old girl in the back seat? Even the LEOs on here would have "words" with the shooting officer if that was your neice or daughter back there. BTW he only hit 5/7 so 2 of those shots went somewhere else.
 
  #4  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:09 PM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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I found most of the stories following the incident to use the girlfriend as a source of information. It took a little time after the incident, plus some digging, to find info about the officers side of the story. I haven't followed it closely since. It turned out pretty much like I suspected it would but that was based mostly on a hunch as I never got a good handle on this one from the media reports. Seemed like a lot of one sided reporting ... even more than most.
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:09 PM
Cannibul Cannibul is offline
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Castile was pulling the pistol out of his pocket. This came up during the trial and wasn't well covered.

I'm sorry but if you start pulling a pistol you're going to get shot.
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:31 PM
barksdale barksdale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannibul View Post
Castile was pulling the pistol out of his pocket. This came up during the trial and wasn't well covered.

I'm sorry but if you start pulling a pistol you're going to get shot.
You mean if the officer thinks you are pulling it out, you will get shot. I dont think a person who completed the required safety course, informed the officer he was carrying, reffered to the weapon as a "firearm" not gun and had his girlfriend and daughter in the car, would have pulled the weapon out in a manner that would make a reasonable officer pull the trigger - 7 times.

Question, was the officer "scared for his life" when he decided to pull him over for the broken taillight, or just when he informed him he had a gun? Why should he be afraid, in a CCW state (not like NJ where I'm located)? I expect it would not be that unusual to come across. This gives me the impression that he was never fit to be an officer to begin with.

I was not in the court room and did not hear the same evidence the jury did, but this one is hard to accept, with the information I'm aware of so far.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:37 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannibul View Post
Castile was pulling the pistol out of his pocket. This came up during the trial and wasn't well covered.
Source...? I know thats what the officers claimed, but was actual evidence that he touched his gun presented? He was also ordered to produce ID...
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:54 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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I would think that you'd have to examine all of the evidence presented at trial in order to make a conclusion one way or the other.

I have and will maintain that I wouldn't want to be "Tried" via the Media.

They just flat get it wrong way too often.

And when they do get it wrong, if you factually point out the flaws in their story, they most often refuse to acknowledge that they are in fact WRONG.
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:46 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
I would think that you'd have to examine all of the evidence presented at trial in order to make a conclusion one way or the other.

I have and will maintain that I wouldn't want to be "Tried" via the Media.

They just flat get it wrong way too often.

And when they do get it wrong, if you factually point out the flaws in their story, they most often refuse to acknowledge that they are in fact WRONG.
Is not this the case where the decedent, GF and vehicle matched a BOLO for armed robbers from a nearby heist? Then the GF's statements mismatched physical evidence?

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  #10  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:25 PM
Taxman Taxman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barksdale View Post
Question, was the officer "scared for his life" when he decided to pull him over for the broken taillight, or just when he informed him he had a gun?
He didn't think he was pulling over a guy for a busted taillight, he was pulling over a potential robbery suspect, so he was thinking 'felony stop' while the victim was thinking 'everyday traffic stop'.

Officer Jeronimo Yanez pulled Castile’s car over in Falcon Heights, a suburb near Minneapolis and St. Paul, and the officer later said he thought Castile matched the description of a suspect in a robbery. The stop quickly escalated.

Quote:
I was not in the court room and did not hear the same evidence the jury did, but this one is hard to accept, with the information I'm aware of so far.
See "paid witness" testimony linked earlier.
  #11  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:47 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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The entire incident, and now the jury verdict, leaves me with a number of doubts. I'm far from confident that the police officer's actions were warranted, and thus have similar sentiments about the jury's verdict.

But I only know what I've seen on mainstream media. If there's a backstage element/fact known to the jury, but not to me, well, that's that. If I knew it, I think I would get it.

I do "get" the risks a police officer faces when stopping an individual. That's something that I sure wouldn't wish to do. But that citizen who's been stopped also has some rights to return home alive. Following instructions to get out a drivers license shouldn't be punishable by death. Yes, of course, most of us know it's best to have the license in hand right away, but should a failure to do this result in death? Heaven help us non-LEOs if the law becomes that the officer shoots the citizen/CHL holder dead anytime he/she feels fear.

The deceased individual's ethnicity will register with certain segments. That's a different subject (from my perceptions as a fellow CHL holder) of the incident and the verdict... but I fear that there might be some wrongful actions taken somewhere, by some misguided individual, regardless of how wrong it may be. More divisive wedges in U.S. society.

I'm also keenly aware of the media's agenda ... they put out whatever is likely to persuade viewers to "come around" to their narrative. I have no doubts of this.

In this situation, I hope I'm wrong with most of these sentiments. Sometimes, it can be good to be wrong.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 06-16-2017 at 08:27 PM.
  #12  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:20 PM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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I remembered it being a black guy while in girlfriend filmed it. This must be a different one I hadn't heard about.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:47 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
The entire incident, and now the jury verdict, leaves me with a number of doubts. I'm far from confident that the police officer's actions were warranted, and thus have similar sentiments about the jury's verdict.
I feel the same way.

It's because at criminal trial, everything gets boiled down to a couple of very narrow legal issues that are presented to the jury. Did the cop have a reasonable belief that his life was endangered after he was informed that the man was armed, especially after BOLO was issued for a robber fitting his description?

Keep in mind that this was a criminal case and all the defense has to do is raise that reasonable doubt that it was a criminal act.

But I am sure there will be a lawsuit for wrongful death and in that venue, the burden of proof is only the preponderance of the evidence that the cop acted wrongfully leading to the death of Castile.
  #14  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:01 PM
SDT SDT is offline
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Reasonable doubt torpedoed this one. Also the prosecutors probably weren't trying too hard to convict so as to not establish any legal precedent. They had to have the trial, but since it was a Hispanic officer shooting a black concealed carry holder, the uproar over an acquittal would be manageable or negligible.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:21 PM
The Earl o Sammich The Earl o Sammich is offline
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Bottom line is an innocent man is dead because the cop made a mistake. Isn't that manslaughter? I kind of agree with SDT,
Quote:
....the prosecutors probably weren't trying too hard to convict ....
.... one of their own????
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:21 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgt_usa View Post
Is not this the case where the decedent, GF and vehicle matched a BOLO for armed robbers from a nearby heist? Then the GF's statements mismatched physical evidence?

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I'd have to go back through and read up on it from a number of different sources before I could comment on that.

And that's my point.

The Media often gets things wrong, sometimes intentionally, sometimes through ignorance and sometimes through stupidity. Regardless, they're wrong often enough, and quit presenting just the facts so long ago, that you cannot take anything published by "The Media" as the Gospel Truth.

In matters such as this, I'd have to have three independent verifiable sources before I could comment with any thought of being accurate.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:25 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Originally Posted by The Earl o Sammich View Post
Bottom line is an innocent man is dead because the cop made a mistake. Isn't that manslaughter? I kind of agree with SDT, .... one of their own????
I remember seeing the stat in Newsweek from 2004 that:

Quote:
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606)(25). And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."(26).............
So it's entirely possible that this was one of those "11 percent".
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:01 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Although admittedly from CNN's oftentimes slanted reporting, the following sticks in my mind:

"He did nothing but comply with Officer Yanez's instructions to get his driver's license. He was seat belted and doing as he was told, when he was shot by Officer Yanez who fired seven shots into the vehicle "

"Castile's fully loaded gun was found in his shorts pocket" (i.e., it had not been removed).

"The City of St. Anthony has concluded that the public will be best served if Officer Yanez is no longer a police officer in our city,"

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...ict/index.html
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:44 PM
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As a former defense attorney, I can say that all the speculation here is just that, speculation. If you weren't present at the trial to hear all the testimony and see the exhibits, then you are just armchair quarterbacking. It really frosts a certain posterior part of my anatomy to hear people comment on criminal trials without firsthand knowledge of the facts. Don't fall into the libby trap of forming opinions based on biased, incomplete and oftentimes inaccurate info.
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BHP940 View Post
As a former defense attorney, I can say that all the speculation here is just that, speculation. If you weren't present at the trial to hear all the testimony and see the exhibits, then you are just armchair quarterbacking. It really frosts a certain posterior part of my anatomy to hear people comment on criminal trials without firsthand knowledge of the facts. Don't fall into the libby trap of forming opinions based on biased, incomplete and oftentimes inaccurate info.
This is exactly why I wanted to know if anyone had a link to somewhere that posted the transcripts or other factual data from the trial. I find it hard to believe the jury would have simply let this guy off if he truly lit up a motorist just because he dutifully informed him he had a firearm and was reaching for his ID instead.
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  #21  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:00 PM
elderberry elderberry is offline
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Yup... What both of you said....
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:33 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is online now
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Source...? I know thats what the officers claimed, but was actual evidence that he touched his gun presented? He was also ordered to produce ID...
Look at the transcripts... ID had already been provided (not the CCW)... He absolutely and without a doubt was NOT reaching for ID.

This incident, while occurring very quickly, is extremely complex and though I'd love to say I think he's innocent, or I think he's guilty, I simply don't know.

The one thing I do know is that the incident was reported as typical, which means in a way to get ratings and views on the web page. That again could go both ways. We all bring our personal bias into these stories, and coupled with the fact we don't have all the information leads to some errant views. I fully admit that applies to me as well... Particularly since I've been in a very similar situation (except the person didn't have a gun at all) and I was very close to shooting him. So yes, I heard the officer's voice on the facebook video... I read the transcript, and I can understand the officer's position. At the same time, I feel bad for everyone in the car, and especially if the deceased wasn't actually trying to hurt the officer it makes it even more of a tragedy.

Since within the last couple weeks a bad guy shot another member of my department while two women sat in the car, and then got shot and killed (both women were uninjured)... I find those who focus on the other members in the car as some sort of reason why a lethal threat couldn't be present to be simply ignorant. That said, I think it's a valid question, not only for this particular incident, but for law enforcement tactics in general, to ask whether other options could have been used, or better tactics could be used to prevent things like this in the future.

Unfortunately, rather than actually address problems, people would rather argue politics and positions... to crucify one man rather than address problems inherent in society or law enforcement.
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:03 AM
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  #24  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:14 AM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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Several of the posts seem to echo mine, above. This one just seemed harder than most to get information on that one can be sure is not biased.

I tend to believe that Castile was reaching down by his waist and that the officer did indeed order Castile to get his hands up. But I don't know either to be fact and I don't pretend to know Castile's intent. Nor do I know what was in the officers head. Whatever the case, the jury had access to enough information to reach their verdict. Personally, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one as they certainly had more info than I did.

Only opinion that I have that I am "comfortable" with (for myself) is that this LEO did not simply shoot Castile because he was black or because he wanted to shoot someone. In other words, I'm fairly certain that this cop is not evil. That doesn't help the dead guy or his family. But that's about all I got.
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  #25  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:29 AM
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I think it went the officers way. the court sees all the evidence, etc. The media on the other hand will sensationalize the parts they want to sell more of their product. Thus one can be guilty in the media's eye but innocent in a court of law where the real evidence is shown. it is very likely the fellow actually appeared to start to draw out his gun, when he should have kept his hands on the steering wheel and move very little. What we read in the news was not what was shown in the court.

I remember many years ago when I was doing police work, we had a fellow officer who just out of the academy was quite paranoid on traffic stops. He would draw his sidearm and have it at the ready when approaching the vehicle he stopped. Scary stuff. He got in trouble for that and they let him go. A while later while working for a different police department, he actually shot someone doing that. In that case he got upset with a traffic violator and tried to stop the guy while off duty in a different city no less. He went away for it and that is the last I heard about of him.
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