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  #1  
Old 11-08-2015, 02:06 AM
reach147 reach147 is offline
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Would appreciate some opinions on this 1911

Hi,

I would appreciate some opinions on this 1911, the LGS has it for sale for $1200.

Would care to hear if you think the price is acceptable and if so, is there anything that could be done to clean it up or restore it or should I even try?

The gun appears to be all original and is mechanically fine. I didn't disassemble it but looks like internally is cleaner than external, probably due to how it was stored by the original owners.

I believe it is the same series gun as listed in "US Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 by J.C. Harrison" page 42-43.

Thanks much,
Jim
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2015, 02:15 AM
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stillwater stillwater is offline
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Thoughts

There are loads of actual experts I'm sure you will hear from soon but my first thought was "Holy cats, is that baby ever pitted!" but my second thought was...where did that slide stop come from?

I wonder how many other non-stock parts are in there...

It may be worth 7-800 bucks to someone but I would not bite at it myself.

Please stand by for more thoughtful and accurate commentary but that's my 2 cents worth.
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Last edited by stillwater; 11-08-2015 at 02:16 AM. Reason: grammar!!
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2015, 04:41 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
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reach147

I'm not an expert but a gun should be seen properly which to me means "disassembled".
Just from the pictures of its external part as a "1911 enthusiast" it hurts me to see a gun in such a bad state.
I don't know if it's beyond restoration, but I dont think anybody can say that it "appears to be all original and is mechanically fine" unless you disassemble it completely.
I've been using Harrison's booklet really a lot, mine is all scribbled and full of notes/corrections, but take my advice and look for Clawson's books they are a lot more expensive but worth every penny.
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Anything with a FLGR is fluff, if JMB didn't put it on the 1911 you don't need it.
If you are going to collect, don't be 'drawn' to an example that is not original, nor correct. Instant gratification is more expensive than a good education.
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2015, 08:11 AM
the.batman the.batman is offline
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I had a 1918 mfg date 1911 and the slide stop on mine looked just like the one on that gun, it was checkered. From the serial number it looks like that gun was made by Colt in 1918- I'm no expert either, but I think that slide stop is OK. I would pull the firing pin stop out and be sure the slide has the last 6 of the frame's serial number stamped into the slide. That is definitely a 1911 (not an A1), and the slides were hand serialized behind the firing pin stop to match them to the frame.

Some of the guys/gals that know much more than I can also chime in on how to be sure it has the right barrel/etc.

Last edited by the.batman; 11-08-2015 at 08:33 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2015, 09:06 AM
BigW BigW is offline
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A 1918 pistol won't have a numbered slide. Colt didn't start doing that until after the A1 was introduced. The slide stop does look a little odd, as the serrations appear to extend up above the shelf. But it is the undercut style, which would be correct for a M1911.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2015, 10:09 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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The parts inside the gun that are not pitted may be worth $400. The rest of it would have to be sand-blasted and Parkerized to have any chance of hiding as much of the pitting as possible. So it's basically a $500 pistol.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2015, 12:44 PM
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It looks to me like somebody steel wooled all the finish off of it, then left it to rust afterwards. I really hate to see this kind of abuse to an old pistol. It might be a good project gun for someone to try and resurrect, but no way is it worth $1200 in that kind of shape. Maybe half that, if the pitting isn't as bad as the photos seem to indicate.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2015, 08:09 PM
reach147 reach147 is offline
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Thanks I agree, I wanted to take it apart, but human nature being what it is, the more time I spent looking at it the better the dealer thought his price was. Time was also a factor as it was the end of the day and there was concern on my part if something like the grips cracked or broke I would be on the hook for the weapon. I have a couple books on 1911's but not the Clawson as I can't find it (yet) at a decent price. I use the Harrison book to bring with me in case I find something interesting as it has the pictures on one page and the details on the other. Anyway,,,
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:40 PM
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Throw away the Harrison's book and pick up Joe Poyer's instead. The format of Harrison's book was a great idea but there are way too many factual errors inside.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2015, 04:44 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
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reach147

Since you were the buyer why didn't you ask the seller to disassemble it? He could at least field strip it for you!
If I were you I think I would have walked away from that gun, unless I wanted it only for a few bucks just for practical experience and learn how to disassemble it.
If you're waiting to find one of Clawson's books at a decent price you'll never get it.
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Anything with a FLGR is fluff, if JMB didn't put it on the 1911 you don't need it.
If you are going to collect, don't be 'drawn' to an example that is not original, nor correct. Instant gratification is more expensive than a good education.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2015, 07:00 PM
reach147 reach147 is offline
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Hi,

I agree, normally I would have asked to take it apart or had him do it.

Let me explain the time factor again so I am more clear; the LGS closes at 5PM and I didn't look at the gun until the owner showed it to me around 4:47PM, I frankly missed it when I was looking at other things.

So its not getting taken apart then by him or me as I don't want to keep him there showing it to me and dissembling it, when I don't intend to purchase it without some thoughts on restoring it and what overall value is in that condition. Also, I don't want to mess with it and break anything/

That is how I got to this posting and the quick pictures from my phone. In my mind its a $400 to $500 gun at best, although at the risk of confusing everyone, here is the last $500 Colt I purchased about 18 months ago at a gun show. Of course not much original with it but shoots great.

You are also correct about the Clawson book, the price seems to remain really high which means its in limited numbers. But I do have the Poyer book, which is very comprehensive, I just don't carry that one with me and my eyes need reading glasses more for that one or else a magnifying glass :-)

Anyway, thanks again, appreciate everyone's input.

Regards,
Jim
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2015, 11:05 PM
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Clawson's books are required reading for anyone who intends to build up a collection of nice specimens. However if you're just looking for a single gun to purchase because you want a USGI pistol then his books are probably not worth the investment. Only a small number of each were printed, and there has never been any talk of re-printing them (now that Chuck has passed we may never see them printed again). As a result prices for even the little condensed book released in 1998 is into the hundreds now. As for the original big book, it'll cost you at least as much as an actual GI mixmaster pistol will. Within a few years I wouldn't be surprised if some folks ask into the four figures for one.

As for Poyer's book, in my opinion the worst thing about it is that the information contained inside is poorly organized and very difficult to find. At least I'll be damned if I can ever find a particular fact that I'm trying to look up in order to answer a question on this forum. There isn't even an index in back, and the table of contents doesn't help much either. However whatever answer you're looking for is usually in there, just good luck finding it without having to read it from cover to cover.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2015, 11:36 PM
BigW BigW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigW View Post
A 1918 pistol won't have a numbered slide. Colt didn't start doing that until after the A1 was introduced. The slide stop does look a little odd, as the serrations appear to extend up above the shelf. But it is the undercut style, which would be correct for a M1911.
I think the slide stop on the pistol in the photos is from an Argentine Sistema, maybe the safety too, which would explain why the condition doesn't match the rest of the gun.
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2015, 01:34 AM
reach147 reach147 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigW View Post
I think the slide stop on the pistol in the photos is from an Argentine Sistema, maybe the safety too, which would explain why the condition doesn't match the rest of the gun.
Very interesting, I will try to get back there on Saturday when I am off again and take another look at it. Maybe see if he will let me take it apart and look at the parts better, get some more pictures with a better camera. I assume he will still have it as the price is so high.
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2015, 02:15 AM
airwing8404 airwing8404 is offline
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oops

Last edited by airwing8404; 11-12-2015 at 02:22 AM.
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2015, 01:56 PM
green papaya green papaya is offline
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I wouldnt bother going back to have closer look, the price is way too much for the condition

save your money for a better one
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