Is 2000 fps possible with a .357 magnum? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:33 AM
Charlie-AKA Charlie-AKA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
Posts: 191
Is 2000 fps possible with a .357 magnum?

Just like the title says. The IMR/Hodgdon load data on their web site claims a velocity of 2,078 fps using a 110 grain XTP and 23 grains of W296. Now granted, they didn't say how long a barrel they were using or what the other conditions were, or if the gun blew up afterward. That's well past the max loads listed in other manuals I have.

I'm just wondering if I'm chasing an impossible dream by considering trying to reach a velocity in that neighborhood with a conventional firearm like a SW with a 6" barrel. Has anyone here ever pushed light bullets to speeds resembling that number in a 357? Or is Hodgdon full of hooey?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:39 AM
stillwater's Avatar
stillwater stillwater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,968
Yep

It's been done. Good idea to pay close attention to your loads when doing it, I'm thinkin'.
__________________
"Rely not on the likelihood of the enemies not coming but on our own readiness to receive him" -SunTsu
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:44 AM
AndyC's Avatar
AndyC AndyC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 55
Posts: 6,440
Is 2000 fps possible with a .357 magnum?

Sure it is - ever used a THV bullet? It's a light, hollow-based brass bullet turned on a lathe - designed to penetrate hard materials; originally a French design ("Tres Haute Vitesse" = Very High Velocity), a guy in South Africa started manufacturing them in various calibers in the late 80s. A lot of fun - very loud, huge muzzle-flash, unbelievable velocities, etc.

If you mean specifically using a 110 grain XTP, I couldn't say.
__________________
My Iraq Pics

Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:51 AM
Entropic86 Entropic86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,866
I've seen this posted many times on the web... Hodgdon uses a 10" barrel to test pistol loads in. A 125gr with something in the 21-22gr range of H110/W296 is clocked in at almost 1900fps according to Hodgdon... from reading multiple guys tests online in 6" wheel guns, this is closer to 1600fps range.

I would ask "why" are you chasing such an extreme load. There is plenty of evidence that show such loads (lot of slow burning powder + light bullets) erodes the hell out of the force cone.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:57 AM
stillwater's Avatar
stillwater stillwater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,968
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
If you mean specifically using a 110 grain XTP, I couldn't say.
It's been done with a standard bullet. Using 2400 and I'm sure that's not the only case but that's the only one I easily found load data for.

The others I looked at were using something like you mentioned at something like 60gr (bullet weight).

All three of the ones I looked at were slightly over 2k (like 2070 I think was highest).

Also agree likely using longer tubes (barrels)
__________________
"Rely not on the likelihood of the enemies not coming but on our own readiness to receive him" -SunTsu
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-23-2013, 07:29 AM
azlou66 azlou66 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,443
A 357 carbine should get you there with room to spare.
__________________
USAF 7/85 - 10/94 31st ARRS "That Others May Live"
LAR Grizzly .45 Win Mag Anything less than over kill is under achievement.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-23-2013, 07:49 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,926
Unless you're deer or hog hunting with a rifle, or, unless your seriously afflicted with Clarkitis, then what's the point?
__________________
Shoot to kill! They'll stop when they're dead!

Not a Glock armorer!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-23-2013, 08:14 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,323
There a few production loads that can do that from a rifle barrel.
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

I never loaded lighter hot loads but a 170gr sp at 1450fps with 16gr of 2400 from a 8" barrel. 2000fps in a carbine should be doable too.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-23-2013, 08:56 AM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The South
Posts: 8,648
Charlie-

If you click on the "print" tab on the Hodgdon web-based reloading data they list the primer, case trim length and barrel used in the tests-in this case it was a 10" bbl.

I don't think I'll build any of those for the M-66, I like it too much and I don't have a Blackhawk any more...
__________________
The Second Amendment-America's Homeland Security!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:40 AM
Lastwagen Lastwagen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 290
I might try it in my Rossi but surely not my Python. But then I can't think of a good reason why I would want to.
__________________
DW
NRA Life Member 1995
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."
~ James D. Miles
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-23-2013, 11:10 AM
ddstuder ddstuder is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Texas
Posts: 472
In my loading notes, I have some data from some everyday Remington 125g JHP from walmart. When shot out of my 6" revolver, it topped out at around 1600 fps.

The same loads measured an impressive 2100 fps through my Winchester 1892 with a 16" barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:18 AM
Charlie-AKA Charlie-AKA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
Unless you're deer or hog hunting with a rifle, or, unless your seriously afflicted with Clarkitis, then what's the point?
It's all just for fun! No Clarkitis here!
Well maybe a little bit. But since I only have occasional access to a chronograph, I generally just load what the manual suggests, and see how accurate I am with it. So I'm really just wondering how authentic the various load manual's velocities are.

I like long distance handgun shooting and hot 357 mag is cool because of the potential for flat trajectory.

125 grain jacketed bullets are impossible to find right now, so if I want to load hot and light then 110 grain is all there is.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-24-2013, 02:21 AM
kinnison kinnison is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 887
in a carbine maybe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-24-2013, 07:24 AM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,309
I have seen some pretty smoking fast velocities from Freedom Arms revolvers. However most of us shoot heavy bullets to knock over steel IHMSA silhouette targets.
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that humpů
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-24-2013, 07:58 AM
buck460XVR buck460XVR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 'ell if I know
Posts: 962
That short, light for caliber bullet along with the slow burning powder required to drive it that fast will be hard on forcing cones and top straps. I would not make it a regular diet outta any of my revolvers.
__________________
Guns are like Harleys and Women. You can never have too many.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:22 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,940
Keep in mind that the original .357 factory load was a 158 gr. LSWC at a listed velocity of 1500 fps. That was in 1935. It was rather quickly 'detuned' because it shot the revolver of the time loose in short order.

2000 fps can be done in a .357 lever gun, but I would hesitate to try it in a revolver -- even a Ruger Blackhawk -- which is probably the strongest revolver out there, and certainly not with a light bullet like that. Pressures needed to accelerate that light a bullet to that velocity have to be approaching nuclear fission levels.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:59 PM
Entropic86 Entropic86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,866
When you consider that Blackhawks are chambered in 480 Ruger and 475 Linebaugh, which are pushing 50,000psi, I'm pretty sure a stupid hot 357 mag isn't going to hurt the frame. Heck, they even chambered Blackhawks at one point in time for 357 Max which was a almost 50k psi cartridge.

Linebaugh has articles where he tells about blowing up 44mag Blackhawks, and it took over twice the SAAMI pressure to do so, and the cylinder was the first to go.... you have a lot more meat on a 357mag cylinder than you do on a 44mag.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-24-2013, 06:41 PM
buck460XVR buck460XVR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 'ell if I know
Posts: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic86 View Post

Linebaugh has articles where he tells about blowing up 44mag Blackhawks, and it took over twice the SAAMI pressure to do so, and the cylinder was the first to go.... you have a lot more meat on a 357mag cylinder than you do on a 44mag.

With the volume needed for the slow burning powders to drive a 125 in the vicinity of 2000 fps outta a revolver, you could not stuff enough of it in a .357 case to blow up any modern .357 revolver. What it will do is eat up the forcing cone with gas and particle blow by because of the short bullet. Now stuff the case full of a fast burning powder intended for plinkin' velocities and you could have a problem.
__________________
Guns are like Harleys and Women. You can never have too many.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-24-2013, 10:24 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,009
You should work up a load for this.

And then come back and report your results so that we will have the benefit of your experience.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-25-2013, 07:13 AM
forrest r forrest r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 284
Alliant list a mp-300 load with a compressed powder charge & 125gr bullet in a 357 doing 2000fps.

Their data is normally done/tested with real world bbl lengths.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-25-2013, 10:52 AM
azlou66 azlou66 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic86 View Post
Heck, they even chambered Blackhawks at one point in time for 357 Max which was a almost 50k psi cartridge.
I have been told the reason Ruger discontinued this chambering was Backstrap and Forcing cone problems as others have mentioned.

I can probably get 2000 out of my 357 Grizzly, I have a 125 gr load at over 1700 and it isn't a top end charge.
__________________
USAF 7/85 - 10/94 31st ARRS "That Others May Live"
LAR Grizzly .45 Win Mag Anything less than over kill is under achievement.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-25-2013, 11:30 AM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic86 View Post
When you consider that Blackhawks are chambered in 480 Ruger and 475 Linebaugh, which are pushing 50,000psi, I'm pretty sure a stupid hot 357 mag isn't going to hurt the frame. Heck, they even chambered Blackhawks at one point in time for 357 Max which was a almost 50k psi cartridge.

Linebaugh has articles where he tells about blowing up 44mag Blackhawks, and it took over twice the SAAMI pressure to do so, and the cylinder was the first to go.... you have a lot more meat on a 357mag cylinder than you do on a 44mag.

You sure you don't mean Redhawks? The cylinder on a Blackhawk isn't beefy enough to fit 6 of those big buggers into it, let alone contain pressures that high. It takes some work to blow up a .44 Super Blackhawk; while it can be done, but the cylinder on a Redhawk is quite a bit beefier.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:31 PM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Vermont (Caspian country)
Age: 65
Posts: 15,321
I have this 7.5" 357 Redhawk, see, and a big box of R-P 110g JHPs, see, and I can make them vaporize when they exit the muzzle and hit the air........but I see no point.
At 1500--1800fps they're still launching pretty hard, ay?



__________________
'
"all my ammo is mostly-retired factory ammo"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:46 PM
azlou66 azlou66 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,443
If you are truly dedicated to launching a 38 caliber pill at 2000+ fps I would suggest a Contender chambered in 357/44 Bain and Davis.
That will get ya there plus!
__________________
USAF 7/85 - 10/94 31st ARRS "That Others May Live"
LAR Grizzly .45 Win Mag Anything less than over kill is under achievement.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:55 PM
jupiter7 jupiter7 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: West, TN
Posts: 2,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by azlou66 View Post
If you are truly dedicated to launching a 38 caliber pill at 2000+ fps I would suggest a Contender chambered in 357/44 Bain and Davis.
That will get ya there plus!
I have a 357 Remington Maximum that started life as a H&R handi rifle in .270 Winchester, rebored by JES Rebore. It'll throw much heavier bullets than 110grs at 2k. And a plus is it will chamber and fire 38spl and 357mag. Downside is Remington is only brass manufacturer and only every few years and it has a reputation for destroying forcing cones and top strap of the limited number of Dan wesson and rugers made. But lives on in contenders and encores, etc....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved