Need some input on 3 1911's - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:03 AM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 12,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by swe123 View Post
None of the above.
And this is helpful to the OP, how?
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:38 PM
Golly Gee Golly Gee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by D1340 View Post
Just did it as well Kimber -> Search About 280,000 results (0.14 seconds

Springfield -> Search About 1,930,000 results (0.16 seconds

Ruger -> About 1,420,000 results (0.23 seconds

Seems we all have our problems



* I used the search terms, kimber 1911 issues, Springfield 1911 issues, ruger 1911 issues


Interesting! I also saw a similar post on another forum where the word "problem" was substituted for "issues" and it was done for many more 1911 producers. Oddly enough, with the substitution, the numbes for Kimber, Springfield & Ruger increased by 3 fold. Also, high end manufacturers, Night Hawk, Ed Brown & Les Baer, were up in the 500K range along with Kimber & Wilson was 1 million +. Very surprising. Of course, I'm sure these numbers included imagined problems, owner induced problems & magazine problems, so not really conclusive.
__________________
Think green------Recycle Congress!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:43 PM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 12,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golly Gee View Post
Interesting! I also saw a similar post on another forum where the word "problem" was substituted for "issues" and it was done for many more 1911 producers. Oddly enough, with the substitution, the numbes for Kimber, Springfield & Ruger increased by 3 fold. Also, high end manufacturers, Night Hawk, Ed Brown & Les Baer, were up in the 500K range along with Kimber & Wilson was 1 million +. Very surprising. Of course, I'm sure these numbers included imagined problems, owner induced problems & magazine problems, so not really conclusive.
All this tells us is how many hits particular search terms generated, not necessarily any data on actual statistics of problems for any brand available.

For example, Wilson sells, what, 50k guns a year, and kimber 2+ million?

What percentage of those guns have failures? What is the return rate?

None of that searching tells us this.

However, looking at various online forums and scanning the types and numbers of issues brought up in posts gives one a good feel of the types and numbers of issues coming up.

At the end of the day, the only thing that's really going to matter is what happens with the firearm you buy. Buy the one that fits you best, looks the best, feels the best, and works the best FOR YOU.

Test the snot out of it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, get it fixed so it does work.

The rest is mental masturbation.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:49 PM
mallard mallard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: nc
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshallb View Post
in that price range you should consider kimber. the custom stainless 2 seems to be right up your alley. i think you get better quality with the kimber. you'll get a match grade barrel and bushing, the frame and slide are mated to each other ( gives a nice tight fit) that you dont get with the others. plus its completely made in yonkers ny.... U.S.A. i think its just a much better made pistol than the others you've mentioned. msrp is about 960 i think... the pistols you did mention are all perfectly serviceable and probably wont give you a problem. good luck!!!
+1 i would go with kimber
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by mallard View Post
+1 i would go with kimber
-1 I owned four and no more.........

In that price range I would look at an STI Trojan, lot of gun for 1k.
__________________
"Shooter are you ready"....."Standby"......
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:05 PM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,276
Many here will not like my answer to this posting.

1. Some here will say buy Brand XXX because that is what they have and it works for them and therefore must be the better gun.

2. Most here have not shot all three and do not own but one of them but they will say it is the best to buy.

3. I own two of the guns in the selection and several of other brands. The S&W is far better than the Ruger or the Springfield. I have over 15,000 rounds through one of my S&W 1911 without a problem and the grouping is much tighter than with a Springer.

4. How would you feel if someone from another country took your job? Most would take offense to it but Springfield relocated their plants to another country in the name of profit and put Americans out of work in favor of hiring foreign workers for less than half what the labor cost in the US is. Even foreign car companies have their cars assembled in the US but Springfield is not that nice. They want profit.

5. Got a defective Springer? Send it back under warranty and it will be gone for months. Been there done that. Got a defective S&W? Send it back and it comes back in 7-10 days. Read the warranties of each. S&W has the better warranty.

6. I have a couple of customs. The S&W shoots as good as either of them.

7. Learning to shoot is easy. Learning to shoot a 1911 properly takes perfect practice. Which ever gun you decide to get, take the time to learn the gun. I was in the US Army in the early 60's and we had to field strip our 1911 sidearms in total darkness by feel and then reassemble them only by feel. We would shoot day and night using sights and point shooting. The more we learned about the gun, the better we shot. The same holds true today. I carry a 1911 all day. My life depends on that gun. Those I deal with do not value life and will kill for a dollar. Often times I am in a project alone without backup and I depend on my 1911 like I cannot any other gun. I trust the gun and know both the potential of the gun and myself.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:06 PM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 12,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenringx2 View Post
-1 I owned four and no more.........

In that price range I would look at an STI Trojan, lot of gun for 1k.
Or the ruger, springfield, or Sig.

Colt's are nice, but they're too loosely fitted for my taste.

I've owned 5 kimbers, and all of them have been junk that never worked despite multiple trips and lots of money to the gunsmith.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:07 PM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 12,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
Many here will not like my answer to this posting.

1. Some here will say buy Brand XXX because that is what they have and it works for them and therefore must be the better gun.

2. Most here have not shot all three and do not own but one of them but they will say it is the best to buy.

3. I own two of the guns in the selection and several of other brands. The S&W is far better than the Ruger or the Springfield. I have over 15,000 rounds through one of my S&W 1911 without a problem and the grouping is much tighter than with a Springer.

4. How would you feel if someone from another country took your job? Most would take offense to it but Springfield relocated their plants to another country in the name of profit and put Americans out of work in favor of hiring foreign workers for less than half what the labor cost in the US is. Even foreign car companies have their cars assembled in the US but Springfield is not that nice. They want profit.

5. Got a defective Springer? Send it back under warranty and it will be gone for months. Been there done that. Got a defective S&W? Send it back and it comes back in 7-10 days. Read the warranties of each. S&W has the better warranty.

6. I have a couple of customs. The S&W shoots as good as either of them.

7. Learning to shoot is easy. Learning to shoot a 1911 properly takes perfect practice. Which ever gun you decide to get, take the time to learn the gun. I was in the US Army in the early 60's and we had to field strip our 1911 sidearms in total darkness by feel and then reassemble them only by feel. We would shoot day and night using sights and point shooting. The more we learned about the gun, the better we shot. The same holds true today. I carry a 1911 all day. My life depends on that gun. Those I deal with do not value life and will kill for a dollar. Often times I am in a project alone without backup and I depend on my 1911 like I cannot any other gun. I trust the gun and know both the potential of the gun and myself.
Good to know on the Smith. I'll have to add an E-series 1911 to the stable.

I would point out that Springfield never HAD major US production, they started up pretty much with importing brazillian 1911s and had a custom shop/higher-end production facility here in the US, same as they do now. IIRC, they've increased their production of in-the-US 1911s over brazillian imports, but the low-cost guns they import are their bread and butter because they cannot make them as cheaply. Even RIA is cheap because they come from a low-labor-cost country.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ

Last edited by DeltaKilo; 10-31-2011 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:46 PM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
I've owned 5 kimbers, and all of them have been junk that never worked despite multiple trips and lots of money to the gunsmith.
Looks like it took you one more Kimber than it took me to figure it out.

I feel your pain on the smith fees trying to get them to work, I will not sell a gun that will not function properly. I was so discussed with them that even though the smith got them working ( as best he could) I sold them anyway!

A friend of mine has the Ruger and has no complaints. Springfield makes a nice gun and thoroughly backs it with their warranty.

Still for the cost STI.

Only Sig's I would buy are the X-5, 220 and 226. Although I and thinking about a 232 for the wifee.
__________________
"Shooter are you ready"....."Standby"......
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:54 PM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 12,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenringx2 View Post
Looks like it took you one more Kimber than it took me to figure it out.

I feel your pain on the smith fees trying to get them to work, I will not sell a gun that will not function properly. I was so discussed with them that even though the smith got them working ( as best he could) I sold them anyway!

A friend of mine has the Ruger and has no complaints. Springfield makes a nice gun and thoroughly backs it with their warranty.

Still for the cost STI.

Only Sig's I would buy are the X-5, 220 and 226. Although I and thinking about a 232 for the wifee.
Their 1911s are nice. Now-days the only 1911s I buy are Ed Brown 1911s.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:58 PM
GKC GKC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Age: 69
Posts: 2,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenringx2 View Post
I owned four and no more.........
I owned three and no more. Third time was the charm (bad luck charm, that is) for me and Kimber!

I've never owned an STI...since they are made in Texas, I need to give them a shot!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-31-2011, 10:20 PM
jtq jtq is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW Florida
Age: 61
Posts: 10,985
My only observation is the Springfield has adjustable sights. The slide is cut differently for adjustable sights. If you find they don't work for your needs, you are really limited with your aftermarket options. Fixed sights will typically be more durable and will give you more aftermarket options.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-31-2011, 10:52 PM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
Their 1911s are nice. Now-days the only 1911s I buy are Ed Brown 1911s.
I am with you on that one, Ed Brown was one of my last 1911 purchase's and will also be my next.
__________________
"Shooter are you ready"....."Standby"......
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:06 PM
TheTinMan TheTinMan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,506
You all aren't really helping the OP much. My first suggestion is to go to each manufacturer's site and get the detailed specs directly. Who knows, there may be another model that you like more.

Honestly, you'll learn more using the Search function than you will with open-ended questions that result in "Kimber stinks" "No, Springfield bites" and "I just love my Glock". Check out the manufacturer specific sub-forums here, go to the M1911 forum and search there too.

What is the purchaser's experience level with the 1911 platform? It's a wonderful pistol, but today's production guns may not be for someone who wants to take a gun home and expect it to work perfectly with any ammo, every time, right out of the box. Many new 1911s are trouble-free, but every manufacturer has some percentage of problem products. The really important question is how well does the manufacturer handle the problems?

Also, it helps if you have a modicum of mechanical ability and like to tinker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D1340 View Post
Just did it as well Kimber -> Search About 280,000 results (0.14 seconds

Springfield -> Search About 1,930,000 results (0.16 seconds

Ruger -> About 1,420,000 results (0.23 seconds

Seems we all have our problems

* I used the search terms, kimber 1911 issues, Springfield 1911 issues, ruger 1911 issues
Garbage in, garbage out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
All this tells us is how many hits particular search terms generated, not necessarily any data on actual statistics of problems for any brand available.

For example, Wilson sells, what, 50k guns a year, and kimber 2+ million?

What percentage of those guns have failures? What is the return rate?

None of that searching tells us this.

However, looking at various online forums and scanning the types and numbers of issues brought up in posts gives one a good feel of the types and numbers of issues coming up.

At the end of the day, the only thing that's really going to matter is what happens with the firearm you buy. Buy the one that fits you best, looks the best, feels the best, and works the best FOR YOU.

Test the snot out of it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, get it fixed so it does work.

The rest is mental masturbation.
+1 on the second post. My guess is that the 2 most important variables missing from the "total number of search results" analysis are (1) number of pistols sold, cumulative over however many years/decades, and (2) expectation levels of buyers.

When someone buys a Wilson or has the Springfield Custom Shop build them a 1911, their expectations are very high. My Springfield from the Custom Shop was not perfect. It should have been... but they fixed it and fast.

Here's some hard data to look at: how many of Brand-X 1911s are for sale used at your local gun shops with very little wear? I know which brand I seem see the most and it's not one of the three in the first post.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:02 AM
OnTarget1911 OnTarget1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
Wisdom

"Here's some hard data to look at: how many of Brand-X 1911s are for sale used at your local gun shops with very little wear? I know which brand I seem see the most and it's not one of the three in the first post."
Wisdom.

Jess
__________________
"Whenever a strong man, fully armed and equipped, is guarding his own castle, he enjoys peaceful possession of his property" Luke 11:21
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
OnTarget LLC Custom Gunworks
http://www.ontargetcgw.com
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:39 AM
USMC Snakedriver USMC Snakedriver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshallb View Post
in that price range you should consider kimber. the custom stainless 2 seems to be right up your alley. i think you get better quality with the kimber. you'll get a match grade barrel and bushing, the frame and slide are mated to each other ( gives a nice tight fit) that you dont get with the others. plus its completely made in yonkers ny.... U.S.A. i think its just a much better made pistol than the others you've mentioned. msrp is about 960 i think... the pistols you did mention are all perfectly serviceable and probably wont give you a problem. good luck!!!
I agree. Having a dozen of them, I've found them to generally be a good quality, reliable, accurate handgun.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-01-2011, 07:47 AM
COLD COLD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTarget1911 View Post
"Here's some hard data to look at: how many of Brand-X 1911s are for sale used at your local gun shops with very little wear? I know which brand I seem see the most and it's not one of the three in the first post."
Wisdom.

Jess
+1 If we could retrieve the numbers, percentage of units sold compared to actual issues with the weapon,I doubt that there would be very little difference in any of the 1911s produced in the USA.I have had excellent service with Kimbers not so much with Colts,so experiences vary.I have not owned a Springfield because I prefer USA made,plus the fact that almost every post praising Springfield includes "great customer service" which most reasonable intelligent people would conclude that the service was needed by the poster.Buy whatever YOU like there is a very high probability you will never have an issue unless it is self induced.Good luck on your choice and good shooting.COLD.
__________________
Kentucky Colonel.NRA Member.CCDW Instructor.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:01 AM
trapshooter trapshooter is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Wa State
Posts: 37
Springfield would be my pick out of those, all of mine have been trouble free.

good luck with your choice!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:42 PM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Western Washington (Not Seattle)
Posts: 3,502
Thank You for all your reply's everyone. I like all three models, but may get one sometime down the road. One thing...I've heard some dislikes about S&W's external extractor on their E-Series. Some have said it's a silly design, but I don't know...I haven't heard of it not working properly.
__________________
7in1911
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:59 PM
Skwerly Skwerly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Yucaipa, CA
Posts: 309
Iíve personally never owned a Springfield, but Iíd go with that one of the ones listed, likely. I wouldnít listen to the nay sayers about Kimber, though; I own one and it has never as much as hiccupped on me.

Canít go wrong with the SA, though.
__________________
Arm yourself: The Zombies are coming.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:09 AM
OnTarget1911 OnTarget1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 615
Well now

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7in1911 View Post
Thank You for all your reply's everyone. I like all three models, but may get one sometime down the road. One thing...I've heard some dislikes about S&W's external extractor on their E-Series. Some have said it's a silly design, but I don't know...I haven't heard of it not working properly.
I have "built" dozens of S&W bobtails and fired hundreds of rounds through them and NEVER had the extractor fail me. I think that people are silly for thinking it is silly. Now the 80 series safety, that is silly.

Jess
__________________
"Whenever a strong man, fully armed and equipped, is guarding his own castle, he enjoys peaceful possession of his property" Luke 11:21
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
OnTarget LLC Custom Gunworks
http://www.ontargetcgw.com
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:15 AM
BruceM BruceM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,913
"I have "built" dozens of S&W bobtails and fired hundreds of rounds through them and NEVER had the extractor fail me."

Roger that!!

The dislike for Smith & Wesson and it's external extractor is a bunch of donkey dung. They have forgotten more about building guns with external extractors than most people know to begin with. Their previous autoloaders, including 1911's have proven utterly reliable. You may not care for how they look and that's one thing but there is absolutely nothing wrong there reliability wise. Now external extractors on other brands may be a different story.



Bruce
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:13 PM
swe123 swe123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mason, TEXAS
Posts: 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
And this is helpful to the OP, how?
It sugests he might expand his options.
__________________
GUNSITE SHEEPDOG
COTEP-CBOB 414
Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen. - Jeff Cooper
Life Member NRA, SCI, ATA, NSCA
If you can list them, you aint got enough!!!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:05 PM
ronsmith2 ronsmith2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 76
Recommend you find a nice used Colt 70 or 80 series or look at the Sig 1911 series
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:16 AM
baccusboy baccusboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 1,047
A gunsmith I know of likes S&W because he rarely sees problems with them. I just purchased a new E-Series Bobtail, but can't get back to try it out for quite a while (I live overseas part of the year).

There is a post in this very forum about LEO's and 1911's. Not many S&W's in the bunch, but I read at least a post or two stating that the officers start with 1911's in the Kimber and Springfield mid-range, but end up with too many problems and upgrade to more expensive guns (like Les Baer, etc).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved