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Opinion on sights?

2K views 21 replies 16 participants last post by  blindshooter 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a Kahr PM9 that I bought new in 2006. It's 100% reliable and has been my EDC for years. The problem is the night sights have died.

I contacted Trijicon and they'll replace the vials for $19 each with a 6-8 week turnaround time. Not bad for new sights but I'm not convinced I need them.

I can get Dawson's for $89 with a plain black rear and combo night/fiber optic front. I'd prefer this setup but I'd have to install it myself.

Or I could just leave them alone and have a three dot setup.

What do you all think?
 
#2 ·
Depends on how well you shoot on index alone.

Next time you're at the range, put up an 8" bullseye and set it at 25'. Lock your eyes on the center of the bullseye then close your eyes, draw and fire a double tap. Then open your eyes. Did you put both shots on target? If so you can do without the tritiums. If you missed by a mile, call Trijicon and have the vials replaced. You'll need them in the dark.
 
#4 ·
Shooting in the dark.....

It is important to know your target and what might be around and behind it in a self defense situation, so shooting in complete darkness is not a good idea.

As Mayhem mentioned, if you practice so that you can index the gun properly each time you raise the gun to eye level, you may not need "night sights" if you can hit a target at roughly 7 yards....

When I was a firearms instructor, I showed the importance of indexing the gun by firing a 1911 without a front sight at a 7 yard target...… I mentioned that by properly indexing the gun, you basically align the sides of the slide so the back of the slide is perpendicular to the target.....which is more or less point shooting. Point shooting can be very fast and accurate at close distances.....but beyond 7-10 yards, proper sight alignment to make an effective shot on a target is often needed for most shooters.....
 
#14 ·
It is important to know your target and what might be around and behind it in a self defense situation, so shooting in complete darkness is not a good idea.

As Mayhem mentioned, if you practice so that you can index the gun properly each time you raise the gun to eye level, you may not need "night sights" if you can hit a target at roughly 7 yards....

When I was a firearms instructor, I showed the importance of indexing the gun by firing a 1911 without a front sight at a 7 yard target...… I mentioned that by properly indexing the gun, you basically align the sides of the slide so the back of the slide is perpendicular to the target.....which is more or less point shooting. Point shooting can be very fast and accurate at close distances.....but beyond 7-10 yards, proper sight alignment to make an effective shot on a target is often needed for most shooters.....
That's pretty close to my thinking. Basic'ly if you practice enough, sticking to one platform, you get so used to how the gun feels in your hand when it's aimed properly that it goes there automatically. There are those that say that's impossible, but look at all the impossible things you do every day. Do you have to "think" about where to place your feet when going up or down a flight of stairs? When you go to the cupboard, get a coffee cup and pour coffee into it, how much do you have to focus on it. You drive a car every day without calculating how much to turn the wheel to navigate a street corner or off ramp.

These are things just as complex, and more so, as aiming and firing a pistol and yet so many instructors will tell to focus and concentrate on this and that. You KNOW how to do it. Let your body do it. If you can point your finger accurately you can do the same with a pistol.

The practice drill I used to hone that skill is this. Put a target paster on the wall and draw your pistol to it. Pay attention to how the pistol feels when it's aimed correctly. Now holster the pistol, focus on the paster, close your eyes and draw to the target. DO NOT SECOND GUESS IT. When the pistol stops, open your eyes. Are you on target? No? Then what and how do you need to adjust. Keep doing it until you can hit that paster every time from 7 ft. Then 10 ft. Then 20 ft. and so on. Do it until you can't miss. At that point your sights are almost irrelevant.
 
#5 ·
Night sight dots are not aiming points. If you’re using dots to aim, you’re not using your sights properly. Top of the front sight lined up with the top of the rear sight with equal light around the front sight. Not 3 dots lined up.

Dots are there to be able to get your gun into a relative aiming point, not for precision aiming. And in a self defense situation, the front sight will be what you want to see.

I prefer a blank rear sight on any type of gun so a blank rear and a fiber optic front might work out great for you in direct light. In my opinion it can’t be beat....except at night :)
 
#18 ·
Night sight dots are not aiming points. If you’re using dots to aim, you’re not using your sights properly. Top of the front sight lined up with the top of the rear sight with equal light around the front sight. Not 3 dots lined up.

Dots are there to be able to get your gun into a relative aiming point, not for precision aiming. And in a self defense situation, the front sight will be what you want to see.

...
With a full size, all black B27 silhouette target at 7 yds, 3 dots can certainly be proper aiming points. And accurate enough to keep everything within the ten ring.

For an attacker at that distance, precision aiming is not required.

-
 
#6 ·
Appreciate the input! Basically I'm trying to decide if night sights are worth upgrading and if they're really necessary. When I bought this pistol they were the hot setup, but I'm not convinced I'll need them anymore. I think if you needed to rely in them it might slow you down.
 
#8 ·
If you have night sights because you don’t have a light, then the dot alignment is “close enough” at room distance to neutralize a threat. My opinion, FWIW, is that if you choose to go with no WML, then either new sights or tritium vial replacement is the way to go, especially if a threat presents itself in a low light/no light environment AND you don’t point/index shoot well. Point index shooting takes practice and continued work. I feel, with my old eyes, the tritium allows me to get on target effectively in low light/no light environment. I don’t practice point index shooting enough to be effective. That said, I have recently converted to WML and feel tritium night sights are no longer needed for my personal situation. However...I choose to keep the night sights because if my light fails to operate, I can still be effective at room distance. I know I threw a lot of back and forth in there, but I’ve thought about it for some time. Hope this helps with your decision. Good luck!


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#7 ·
One of my 1911 9's came with night sights. I've never fired it in the dark so I can't make any meaningful comment about how helpful/effective NS's may be. But Ive played around with them in my dark house and my opinion is that the NS's allow you to (roughly) align your front & rear sights in the dark. But, if you can't see your target the sights aren't much help. All of my other handguns have F.O. fronts with plain black rears. Learning proper flashlight technique is essential for shooting in the dark.
 
#9 ·
I tend to agree, I'm 67 so I'm not sure it's worth the money. I don't go into dangerous places after dark and this isn't my house gun. It's just for up close and personal. I'll probably just leave them alone.

Thanks again for all your input!
 
#13 · (Edited)
In my experience and eyesight,I found that in, low light conditions the top metal edge will not be readily detected. Low ambient include natural light at dusk or dawn or ambient street lights at night.
Painted sights will also not be readily detected under some conditions.
Full spectrum of possible ambient light conditions I settled on night sights with painted rings. This combo work best for me.
First noticed in hunting years ago that black sights were nearly impossible to pick up under different lighting,shade in woods or small dark game. Brass beads were better. Later fiber optic was possible.
For me black target type sights really are not very good for hunting so do not use them inself defense situations applications.
Other option, but not for everybody.
On some handguns such as a S&W 60 with factory black front sight or integral front sight, I use a crimpson trace boot grip red laser.
Never needed to modify the revolver and only need new batteries every year or two. Otherwise use the existing sight.
That's my opinion.
 
#16 ·
Been carrying a PM9 since 2010. It came with OEM dot the i, swapped for Trigicons. Over a year ago installed TFX PRO. I prefer the TFX. The PM9 is a SD not target pistol. Fast acquisition with the fiber and orange front dot. Liked them so much installed them on three Kahrs and three CZ. May add them to the 1911.
 
#17 ·
Simpleton question here. How did you initiate the conversation with Trijicon about getting your tridium viles replaced? I’m in the same boat (but different gun) where my sights are really dim. I’ve sent two service request forms from their website but have yet to hear back. It’s going on two weeks. Not a big deal, since I know things are a bit crazy for most businesses at the moment with the state of things. I was just curious. Thought I’d give them a call next if I don’t hear anything within the next couple of days.
 
#19 ·
I emailed their customer service and asked what the process was to have them repaired/replaced. Took about three days for their reply. I have to call and get a return authorization number, send the slide in and they then determine if it's warranty or repair. Turnaround is 6-8 weeks @ $19 per vial.
 
#22 ·
I had cataracts fixed first of this year, distance fixed nothing up close without glasses. For my SD gun (Ed Brown commander) The trijicons were useless without the glasses in the dark or light. I could see my bullseye gun sights pretty good (I use a bit wider notch than most) so after some hunting around I used a wide U notch rear with a gold bead front. I can see these well enough without glasses so if I get caught without them I'll be ok. Still practice natural POA, that's a smart use of time for any type of shooting IMO.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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