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  #26  
Old 05-11-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
  1. Turn the up/down (UP ⤻) screw out. You can, but don't have to remove it completely.
  2. Turn the the right/left (R →) screw out.
  3. Remove the blade holding with your finger the spring.
PS: If you count the clicks, you will notice that they are going to stop before the screw is completely removed from the internal thread.


The other photos are for reference:
  • Up/down construction without screw, "click-nib"
  • Up/down construction open, two small springs
  • Up/down screw
  • Two blades: standard (serrated) and Battlesight, right/left screw with spring
Birdy, Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, this is very kind of you.

You are right, it is not hard - but I would have never known I had to loosen the top screw without your post (word was, just the side screw).

As always your pictures are terrific! And you have an awsome looking SG.

Anthony/Mod. - would it make sense to post this as a sticky somewhere. Small job, but knowing how to do it via Birdy's post is a +...Pehapes we can just take Birdy's several posts here and "stick-em"?
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2014, 08:56 AM
Birdy Birdy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Birdy, Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, this is very kind of you.
You're welcome CA!
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:26 AM
Birdy Birdy is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
...but I would have never known I had to loosen the top screw without your post (word was, just the side screw).
You can remove the right/left screw without loosening the up/down screw.
I just don't want to have a screwdriver tip near the polished metal of the slide.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:41 AM
LamarE LamarE is offline
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Smart thinking Birdy. Especially true w/ AT or blued slides I would think. Thanks very much for you great photos.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
You can remove the right/left screw without loosening the up/down screw.
I just don't want to have a screwdriver tip near the polished metal of the slide.
Savvy!
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  #31  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:50 AM
JimF4M1s JimF4M1s is offline
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Birdy,

As always, great shots. And instructions even I could follow. Good tip on the top screw, as we get older the hands might not be as steady. Especially if the spring goes flying and we get excited.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2014, 12:12 PM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Birdy, Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, this is very kind of you.

You are right, it is not hard - but I would have never known I had to loosen the top screw without your post (word was, just the side screw).

As always your pictures are terrific! And you have an awsome looking SG.

Anthony/Mod. - would it make sense to post this as a sticky somewhere. Small job, but knowing how to do it via Birdy's post is a +...Pehapes we can just take Birdy's several posts here and "stick-em"?
The sight blade usually has instructions with it. But you are free to ask a moderator buy using the moderator alert button. I am not a moderator..
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2014, 12:46 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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Incredible pics as usual birdy, thanks for taking the time.

Love the white background too, oh...
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  #34  
Old 05-11-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep View Post
The sight blade usually has instructions with it. But you are free to ask a moderator buy using the moderator alert button. I am not a moderator..
Yep, I know you are not a mod., I just included you as our kind of mentor of all things WC (and some other things too I might add) to see if you thought it was an OK idea...

Hitting the mod button now.
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  #35  
Old 05-11-2014, 04:43 PM
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Great support Birdy, and thanks for asking CA. This is helpful.
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  #36  
Old 05-13-2014, 05:51 PM
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All Good. Thanks again Birdy, it was indeed really easy, but your pics and step by step helped me see it first.

I counter 84 clicks in and out - going back in the first 25 or so clicks were by feel because they didn't make much of a click. I am expecting a minor adjustment to zero at 25Y. (I just took out the side screw).

Nice crisp site picture, easy on the eyes for those precision shots especially out at 50 yards. (Nice to be lucky enough to own 2 TEs one with a battle sight, and one with a "bullsye" sight.)
Attached Thumbnails
flate blade 004.JPG   flate blade 005.JPG   flate blade 007.JPG  
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Last edited by combat auto; 05-13-2014 at 06:09 PM.
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  #37  
Old 05-13-2014, 06:44 PM
Birdy Birdy is offline
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Good!

I would adjust the left/right screw at 5 yards (no need to go at 25 yards).
And at 15 yards for the up/down screw. Since the trajectory is a very flat parabola, it also works for ~20-25 yards.

Here's an excellent ballistics calculator (it needs the MS Silverlight Plug-in).
Try this:
- Cartridge: .45 ACP / FMJ / 230 grains
- Sight-in Range: 15 yards
- Max range: 30 yards
- No cross wind

The chart will show: zeroed at 15 yards and 0.1" drop at 25 yards.
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  #38  
Old 05-14-2014, 06:20 AM
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Bullet drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
Good!

I would adjust the left/right screw at 5 yards (no need to go at 25 yards).
And at 15 yards for the up/down screw. Since the trajectory is a very flat parabola, it also works for ~20-25 yards.

Here's an excellent ballistics calculator (it needs the MS Silverlight Plug-in).
Try this:
- Cartridge: .45 ACP / FMJ / 230 grains
- Sight-in Range: 15 yards
- Max range: 30 yards
- No cross wind

The chart will show: zeroed at 15 yards and 0.1" drop at 25 yards.
Birdy, that is the finest B.C. I've seen yet...

Yes, I am able to confirm a 15 yard zero essentially = a 25 yard zero (45 auto). (I use the double zero approach for rifle zeroing but didn't think of using it for pistol). You just made my task tomorrow much easier! Thanks again. (I will “confirm” it at 25y of course).

It didn't make much of a difference @25y but I used the "PDX1 Def" bullet type option, which showed 920 muzzle vel., which is just about = to the duty ammo I use for "precision" shooting. Where the duty ammo does yield an advantage is at 50 yards showing a -1.7" drop (vs -2.3" drop for FMJ), or 6/10ths of an inch. Theoretically, this is not much, even shooting at a small plate at 50. But I just feel I get more consistent results with duty vs. ball (maybe it is all in my head ;-)) ---Either way, when I shoot the 1/4 area IPSIC plate I have at 50 yards, in the past I pretty much aim center mass and when I am "fresh" (i.e. not at the end of a long shoot when the flitch starts to set in) the hits are spread around the plate. This tells me, even the small wobble in my two hand standing hold, "drowns-out" the 1.7" drop at 50y.

Very interesting stuff.

What kind of shooting do you do?
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  #39  
Old 05-14-2014, 09:35 AM
BayouSlide BayouSlide is offline
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For many years, I've never run a pistol in USPSA, IDPA, 3-Gun or steel challenge competition with anything but a Bomar-style rear sight similar to what you're looking at.

I'd say go for it.

My fastest acquisition sights are Bomar-style rears with thin Dawson FO red fronts. In my book, a perfect blend of both speed and accuracy. YMMV.
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  #40  
Old 05-14-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BayouSlide View Post
For many years, I've never run a pistol in USPSA, IDPA, 3-Gun or steel challenge competition with anything but a Bomar-style rear sight similar to what you're looking at.

I'd say go for it.

My fastest acquisition sights are Bomar-style rears with thin Dawson FO red fronts. In my book, a perfect blend of both speed and accuracy. YMMV.
That is interesting, and not something I doubt at all, because the bomar will "force" one (in a way) to make a more accurate shot. If one can do this with practice without taking to many extra "instants" it sure can work well.

My plan is to run combat on TE1 for shooting matches (the speed kind) and the "bomar-style" on TE2 for 50 yard. --However, I will try the bomars in speed matches and see how they do.

Just curious, have you ever tried a wilson combat rear sight at all? They are quite good for speed shooting, so I am wondering if this is one of the options the bomars beat out (in your case of course)?
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Last edited by combat auto; 05-14-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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  #41  
Old 05-14-2014, 11:04 AM
BayouSlide BayouSlide is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
That is interesting, and not something I doubt at all, because the bomar will "force" one (in a way) to make a more accurate shot. If one can do this with practice without taking to many extra "instants" it sure can work well.

My plan is to run combat on TE1 for shooting matches (the speed kind) and the "bomar-style" on TE2 for 50 yard. --However, I will try the bomars in speed matches and see how they do.

Just curious, have you ever tried a wilson combat rear sight at all? They are quite good for speed shooting, so I am wondering if this is one of the options the bomars beat out (in your case of course)?
Never have the opportunity to try the Wilsons. My competition pistols, whether 1911, 2011 or Glocks, always had either the original Bomars, STI variant of the Bomar or the Dawson variant of the Bomars so I've always stuck with them.

You may be surprised how well this type of sight works at speed, especially with the FO front pulling your focus onto the front sight. I'm so used to the squared off rear sight that once I dinged the edge of a Bomar and the irregularity kept drawing my attention so I ended up changing 'em out to a fresh new set. On a related note, I think the rear serrations killing any glare, tend to "darken" the rear sight picture and pull your vision quickly into the notch and, hence the front sight. To take advantage of the FO front I usually adjust the rear to provide POA/POI on the "dot"…about as fast as I could ask for in iron sights when working quickly through a stage.
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  #42  
Old 05-14-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BayouSlide View Post
Never have the opportunity to try the Wilsons. My competition pistols, whether 1911, 2011 or Glocks, always had either the original Bomars, STI variant of the Bomar or the Dawson variant of the Bomars so I've always stuck with them.

You may be surprised how well this type of sight works at speed, especially with the FO front pulling your focus onto the front sight. I'm so used to the squared off rear sight that once I dinged the edge of a Bomar and the irregularity kept drawing my attention so I ended up changing 'em out to a fresh new set. On a related note, I think the rear serrations killing any glare, tend to "darken" the rear sight picture and pull your vision quickly into the notch and, hence the front sight. To take advantage of the FO front I usually adjust the rear to provide POA/POI on the "dot"…about as fast as I could ask for in iron sights when working quickly through a stage.
I might not be so surprised, I can see what a crisp site picture it is with F.O. front on my wilson. Also, I have this arrangement on my XDM-Compettion, a fine, 13 R 45acp, 5.3" barrel, 1911 ergonomic-wana-be gun, but have never used it in a match....It is going to be a lot of fun shooting two Tactical elites - one with each type of rear-site. We will see if I can "disprove" some common myths ;-).
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  #43  
Old 05-19-2014, 01:20 AM
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Here are the results of following Birdy's sight installation and Zero instructions...I zeroed at 15 yards, confirmed with off-hand shooting (no rest) at 25 yards:
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TE2-FBS-f 001.JPG  
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  #44  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:32 AM
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I'm impressed.
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  #45  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:06 AM
LamarE LamarE is offline
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That'll do it!
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  #46  
Old 05-30-2014, 02:52 PM
Puddi_Nugget Puddi_Nugget is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
I might not be so surprised, I can see what a crisp site picture it is with F.O. front on my wilson. Also, I have this arrangement on my XDM-Compettion, a fine, 13 R 45acp, 5.3" barrel, 1911 ergonomic-wana-be gun, but have never used it in a match....It is going to be a lot of fun shooting two Tactical elites - one with each type of rear-site. We will see if I can "disprove" some common myths ;-).
Hey CA - awesome shooting!

As Bayou mentioned, to increase speed with the narrower notched rears (.115 to .125 or in Wilson's case .128), you may want to look into a narrower front to allow more light bars on the side. Also a thinner front sight would allow less coverage of targets out at 50 yards giving more precise shots.

My young eyes prefer a .115 front sight with a .125 rear for longer shots, but I've heard great things with a .100 front (which is what you will want with a .115 wide rear).

If you ever have to send your gun in again, I would ask if they are willing to file down the width of your front sight to a narrower front (if you wish to keep the FO) or have them install a plain black serrated front and file that down to about .110 or .115.

Best of luck!
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  #47  
Old 05-30-2014, 03:09 PM
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good shooting.
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  #48  
Old 05-31-2014, 12:03 PM
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good shooting.
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Originally Posted by Puddi_Nugget View Post
Hey CA - awesome shooting!

As Bayou mentioned, to increase speed with the narrower notched rears (.115 to .125 or in Wilson's case .128), you may want to look into a narrower front to allow more light bars on the side. Also a thinner front sight would allow less coverage of targets out at 50 yards giving more precise shots.

My young eyes prefer a .115 front sight with a .125 rear for longer shots, but I've heard great things with a .100 front (which is what you will want with a .115 wide rear).

If you ever have to send your gun in again, I would ask if they are willing to file down the width of your front sight to a narrower front (if you wish to keep the FO) or have them install a plain black serrated front and file that down to about .110 or .115.

Best of luck!
Thanks Guys!

Puddi, I'll keep this info in mind if I ever have to send it back. Hopefully I will never "have to" but who knows.

I used it in a Static Steel match last sunday and lost about a 1/2 second per stage vs the same gun when it had battle sights. Hard to say how much was the sight change or the New Match Director who decided to use many more smaller plates then his predicessor. Either way the match is a Hoot!
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  #49  
Old 02-27-2015, 03:02 PM
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Birdy,
I just noticed you have a super nice collection of pistols. Since we are talking about rear sights and accuracy I have to ask: If you used a Ransom Rest, which one of your pistols do you think would consistently shoot the tightest groups at 50 yards? I'm guessing all are extremely accurate. I'm just wondering if you had a standout on either end of the accuracy scale? Thank you for your time. Again, fantastic collection!
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  #50  
Old 02-28-2015, 02:27 PM
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Birdy,
I just noticed you have a super nice collection of pistols. Since we are talking about rear sights and accuracy I have to ask: If you used a Ransom Rest, which one of your pistols do you think would consistently shoot the tightest groups at 50 yards? I'm guessing all are extremely accurate. I'm just wondering if you had a standout on either end of the accuracy scale? Thank you for your time. Again, fantastic collection!
Hi, Until Birdy weighs-in, I can tell you that BLR, who visits us from time to time on the WCF did a lot of 50y ransom work. I believe he got his tightest-tightest groups (although all his WC guns shoot well) with the 38 Super. It is just an intrinsically more accurate load at those distances (flatter trajectory, etc.)...You can search on "BLR" if you want to see his targets.
C.A.
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