3rd (and last) M-1 Carbine rebuilt by Fulton Armory - 1911Forum
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  #1  
Old 01-17-2020, 04:56 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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3rd (and last) M-1 Carbine rebuilt by Fulton Armory





This is the 3rd Carbine I've had reworked by Fulton Armory. This particular rifle is a "Howa" Made in Japan model produced for the Royal Thai Police between 1960's and imported into the US in the 90's. Howa's are considered "commercial" grade Carbines by collectors but of high quality.

Howa made their own receivers for the Thai order but evidently also used leftover USGI receivers on the order. When I first purchased this rifle last year it was thought on the Carbine Collectors forum that this was a USGI Winchester made receiver.

Fulton Armory confirmed this when they started work on the Carbine. The receiver was refinished by Howa and the only markings on it were the Howa RTPD serial number and the NHM CO SAC CA import marking on the right side of the receiver under the rear sight. This is how FA had to enter it in their logs,

I had them install a new barrel, keeping the 1944 Inland barrel the importer installed on the carbine and having that recrowned. I also had a new production bolt installed and the Howa production bolt rebuilt.

FA replaced worn parts as needed. Since Howa used cast parts for the trigger group they replaced the hammer with a new one.

On to the range, 200 round test using PPU 110gn FMJ. 1st 50 rounds no issues. 2nd 50 rounds I had 1 FTF on round 58 but I believe that was me jiggling the mag while I was holding the rifle.

I swapped mags to be sure and ran the next 100 rounds no problems



This is the last 100 rounds at 25 yards standing. I had to change lanes at the local indoor range I used because the target track cable broke (evidently the 2nd time this week for that lane).

I also tested the 1st mag I had problems with again and had no issues.

Last edited by Don Flynn; 01-17-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:22 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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Congrats. Your M-1s are all super nice. It's cool to see someone so committed to a particular type of firearm.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:25 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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P.S. Fulton Armory rebuilt my M-1 Garand and did a beautiful job. They are top-notch!
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:40 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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I have to admit that M1 Carbines are extremely fun to shoot. I just wish I could find cheaper ammo. Locally it's always about $30 a box and I don't shoot mine enough to justify buying an entire case of it online.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:10 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I have a couple of clean all original ones, (as near as I can tell.)

An IBM and an Inland. I am tempted to send one of them to Fulton just to see what they say. But I do not see much in the way of wear on either one of them. I shoot mine fairly often. I usually keep a thirty or a fifty five gallon drum up in the back pasture filled with scrap lumber. Chopping those babies up is great fun.

Buy a case dsk, you will not regret it.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle...0-carbine-ammo
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:14 AM
bmcgilvray bmcgilvray is offline
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Great Carbine(s)! Thanks for the photos.

Didn't know that Howa made some use of U. S. contract receivers with markings removed.

I like the M1 Carbine and think more highly of it for most purposes than I do the AR 15 I have around here. Two Carbines live here, an unmolested all-original Quality Hardware & Machine Company (top) and an Underwood with a wartime Type 2 rear sight upgrade (bottom).



I hand load for .30 Carbine and shoot the hooey out of the Underwood and have for probably 40 years now. Shot the hooey out of the Quality HMC when I was a kid. Vacuumed up all my dad's ammo any time they left me home alone, shooting it around our home place and later as an older teen, borrowed it for trips out to the old family place on the lake. The M1 Carbine was the first gun I ever "shot." I was six years old and my dad helped me hold the rifle.
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:36 AM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
An IBM and an Inland. I am tempted to send one of them to Fulton just to see what they say. But I do not see much in the way of wear on either one of them. I shoot mine fairly often. I usually keep a thirty or a fifty five gallon drum up in the back pasture filled with scrap lumber. Chopping those babies up is great fun.

Buy a case dsk, you will not regret it.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle...0-carbine-ammo
Fulton's tech inspections are worth it IMO. The funny thing is of the 3 I've had them work on the 1st, a Blue Sky import marked one, was the best of the ones I had before I had work done on it.

That barrel gauged a "1.5" on the crown. The only reason I replaced the barrel was the import mark bugged me.

The 2nd, the CMP Inland I thought was in the best shape of the 3 ended up having the worst barrel, it gauged "3+" and was shot out.

The 1944 Inland barrel the Howa had on it gauged "2", acceptable but I figured by this time I might as well get a new barrel on it and have 4 new build condition Carbines.

FA will check your carbines over and a recommendation. It takes 12-14 weeks to process but after they call you you'll have the guns back ASAP.

Ammoseek is also good for finding bulk .30 Carbine, I found a good deal on 250 round bulk pack Armscor before Xmas I stocked for $73 a box. I'm rotating the PPU I was using as stash ammo out and snagged 4 cases of that cheap
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:42 AM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
Great Carbine(s)! Thanks for the photos.

Didn't know that Howa made some use of U. S. contract receivers with markings removed.

I like the M1 Carbine and think more highly of it for most purposes than I do the AR 15 I have around here. Two Carbines live here, an unmolested all-original Quality Hardware & Machine Company (top) and an Underwood with a wartime Type 2 rear sight upgrade (bottom).



I hand load for .30 Carbine and shoot the hooey out of the Underwood and have for probably 40 years now. Shot the hooey out of the Quality HMC when I was a kid. Vacuumed up all my dad's ammo any time they left me home alone, shooting it around our home place and later as an older teen, borrowed it for trips out to the old family place on the lake. The M1 Carbine was the first gun I ever "shot." I was six years old and my dad helped me hold the rifle.
Howa using USGI receivers was a surprise to the admins at Carbine Collectors also, but when I first bought the Howa last year it didn't match the known shape of their forgings.

FA confirming it was a Winchester just makes mine a oddball I guess. I might hit the range again Sunday and run another 100 rounds to check that iffy mag again, have to see what I need to do tomorrow
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:12 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Thanks for another great post, Don.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:28 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Man.....I long for the days when you could buy these at a gun show for $99. I'm sure they could have been bought for less than that, but that's the price I remember on them as a broke college student.

$99 might as well have been $1M.

At a show last weekend you couldn't touch one for less than $1K. And it looked like it had been used to drive fence posts.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:52 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Man.....I long for the days when you could buy these at a gun show for $99........
or from the Sears catalog
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:21 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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According to an older friend of mine.

You could get them from the CMP back in the sixties for 12.95$. Don you likely did the right thing getting that Blue sky barrel changed out. The word in the street is that they got pretty ambitious when stamping the import mark on the barrels. To the point where they made them go out of round.

My 44 IBM I bought back in the late eighties for 400$. My 43 Inland, clean as a pin I bought about three years ago for a grand. I am glad that neither of mine has the bayonet lug as I think that it ruins the look of the gun. If I saw another clean one for a decent price, I would likely buy that one as well. There are only so many of them out there, originals anyway. I have actually been toying with the idea of getting one of the new manufactured Fultons just because.

One thing that I made out well on was that some years ago a guy had a bunch of the original GI magazines for sale in the original waxed paper at a flea market. At ten bucks apiece, I bought a bunch of them.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:28 PM
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Mine is a 1943 Inland with a matching barrel, but obviously reworked after the war. I have no idea what the barrel gauges at, but since it's nothing but a safe queen and occasional plinker I don't really care as I wouldn't replace it anyway.

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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:39 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post

I have actually been toying with the idea of getting one of the new manufactured Fultons just because.
.

The new production Fulton I bought last year was as nice or better than 90% of any USGI made one I've handled over the decades. It's to USGI spec plus I upgraded the barrel to the chrome lined option, not something USGI ones had.

It's like being issued a new production USGI Carbine
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:39 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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It sure is tempting!

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Originally Posted by Don Flynn View Post
The new production Fulton I bought last year was as nice or better than 90% of any USGI made one I've handled over the decades. It's to USGI spec plus I upgraded the barrel to the chrome lined option, not something USGI ones had.

It's like being issued a new production USGI Carbine
We will see going forward. Right now my big concern is whether or not we will even be able to legally own these guns going forward. Here in Virginia, things are tense right now.

I have actually considered even getting an M-2 carbine once in a while. You still see them come up for sale once in a while for 10 or 12 Gs.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:19 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
We will see going forward. Right now my big concern is whether or not we will even be able to legally own these guns going forward. Here in Virginia, things are tense right now.

I have actually considered even getting an M-2 carbine once in a while. You still see them come up for sale once in a while for 10 or 12 Gs.
I wish you guys luck
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:30 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Ok, made the range again today, 250 rounds testing mags



1st 100 rounds 25 yards, again using PPU 110 gn. 1st mag tested is the one I had issues with Friday, it ran fine (headshots) 50 rounds loading 10 rounds at a time so I figure it's ok for range work.

Bottom 50 I test a new Korean mag from a stash I bought from AIM Surplus. 2 10 round checks and 2 15 round checks no problems, I figure it goes in the "good" pile for future testing.



2nd 100 rounds checking mags. Top target I check a 2nd new Korean mag with no issues, same deal as the 1st...marked for farther use.

Bottom 50 rounds I try a USGI mag and run into my 1st problems. FTF on round 25 and stovepipe on 45 out of 50, this mag goes into the "problem" pile and gets worked on down the road.



Last 50 rounds using the mag that came with my Fulton Armory Carbine. 1 FTE on this one on loading 15 rounds. I check the mag and try again loading 15 rounds no problems but run out of ammo to run another check.

I think next range session this rifle I'll try a different brand ammo. I seem to have more problems with PPU than I do other brands, plus I'll test some more Korean mags. My USGI ones are getting long on the tooth and so far the KCI Korean mags seem like they run well in every Carbine I test them on
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:32 PM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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The price of Garand and m1 carbine ammo alone is enough to justify buying a lee turret kit to reload them.
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:16 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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The price of Garand and m1 carbine ammo alone is enough to justify buying a lee turret kit to reload them.
Actually Carbine ammo prices ain't bad right now. You have to hunt around and buy 1000 round bulk packs but I can get good ammo for around $300 plus shipping for 1000 rounds, not much more than I pay for 5.56
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:56 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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This is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Flynn View Post
Actually Carbine ammo prices ain't bad right now. You have to hunt around and buy 1000 round bulk packs but I can get good ammo for around $300 plus shipping for 1000 rounds, not much more than I pay for 5.56
I am still waiting for sgammo.com to get those 300$ thousand round cases of Fiochi back in stock. I am glad that I grabbed a few of them when I did. If I do not see them back in stock anytime soon. I may have to bump up tp the 339$ cases of Aguila that they currently have in sock.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:05 AM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
I am still waiting for sgammo.com to get those 300$ thousand round cases of Fiochi back in stock. I am glad that I grabbed a few of them when I did. If I do not see them back in stock anytime soon. I may have to bump up tp the 339$ cases of Aguila that they currently have in sock.

I might have to do the same
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:39 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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Always had a thing for the carbine since I found the Garand (ROTC) and the M14 (basic training) too heavy for my tastes. Finally decided it was time to own one and picked up a nice beater Underwood from 1944. At first I thought it was too nice, but the sales person said it had been restored hence it was much less desirable than a mint unmolested historically correct one they also had for sale. So I'm going to have to get use to scuffing this one up and enjoying it...no safe queen, just a good shooter. It certainly isn't the latest trend in a close quarters combat rifles, but its simplicity makes it something I can train my wife to be able to use. And in a SHTF scenario it will be good for getting food and also not bad protection. Slinging it over my shoulder (muzzle down) I could feel the history of it running through my body. I'm sourcing mags from different suppliers and after the 10 day waiting period I'll begin working my way through them. I figure taping two 10 rounders together will have to do for now in California.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:35 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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It makes me glad to hear.

That you can still have them in the golden state. In my mind they are excellent little carbines. A lot of people Poo Poo the round, but you can do a lot worse. And talk about handy. At +/- 5lb you can carry one around all day if need be and you can shoot it one handed if need be.

I can hit a torso sized target all day long from a standing position at 150 yards with the original irons. What is not to like about that?
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:57 PM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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That you can still have them in the golden state. In my mind they are excellent little carbines. A lot of people Poo Poo the round, but you can do a lot worse. And talk about handy. At +/- 5lb you can carry one around all day if need be and you can shoot it one handed if need be.

I can hit a torso sized target all day long from a standing position at 150 yards with the original irons. What is not to like about that?
I would not feel outgunned if the only long rifle I had to carry SHTF was a Carbine, as long as I knew it was reliable and I had a decent supply of ammo and mags.

21st Century the only issue I would have is ammo supply. .30 Carbine ammo has become more of a collector caliber vs. more common rounds like .223/5.56. When I 1st started shooting them in the 80's surplus ammo was cheap. Nowadays not so much
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:38 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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For me the ammo issue will be straight forward...bite the bullet cost wise (very very sorry about the pun)...buy a thousand rounds and hold that as your end of days stockpile. The next step is to talk to my brother about storing some of this at his place. If we're lucky, we'll be doing all our shooting at a range. At least I hope so. But if stuff happens, we'll all do the best we can.
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