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  #1  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:04 PM
dinho75 dinho75 is offline
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Failure to eject problem

I recently acquired a C series that I got a chance to shoot today. I am having a failure to eject every fourth round. I am using a mecgar 10 rd mag and it happens when I load 5 rds as well as when I fully load the mag. Is this due to the mag or the pistol?
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:29 PM
Patrick Kelly Patrick Kelly is offline
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I'd start with the extractor first. Failures to eject are *usually* related to the extractor or ejector. Remove the extractor and check the condition of its hook, give it a good cleaning and while you're at it, replace the extractor spring.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:31 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Agreed.
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2012, 08:08 PM
dinho75 dinho75 is offline
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Agreed.
Thanks fellas.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:32 PM
CWarner CWarner is offline
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..........
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:01 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Dinho75,

You only have one mag?
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:15 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Whenever CW does the " ........... " thing, I always wonder if that's good or bad.
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2012, 04:30 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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I think it means he drove as fast as he could and was late to the party.
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
iim1awh iim1awh is offline
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Fighting the same problem with my dads FM 90, eliminated mags as the issue, just received a new set of wolf springs for it so we will start with replacing the extractor spring to see it that corrects the issue, if not the. I am leaning towards replacing the extractor.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
boba fett boba fett is offline
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Are you using factory ammo?
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:22 AM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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iim1ahw,

Start with the extractor spring first if you have to. In my Hi Powers and in those of several of my friends, Wolf recoil springs caused problems with feeding and ejecting and made working HPs inoperable. I would avoid Wolf springs altogether and stick to Browning springs, which are a known quantity. It looks to me that the Wolf HP springs are either outright bad, or they are putting the wrong springs in the bags.
I also had the same problem with Wolf springs in my CZ-75.

If you insist on using Wolf springs, I'd try the extractor repair first to see if that works, because if you introduce bad springs into the equation, you're likely to end up with a pistol with multiple issues that need fixing instead of just whatever you have now.

Good Luck!
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:44 AM
CWarner CWarner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
I think it means he drove as fast as he could and was late to the party.
Yep...lmao. I dont care to be one of those that has to repeat good advice when given. Dilutes the original responders advice.
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:46 AM
CWarner CWarner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Whenever CW does the " ........... " thing, I always wonder if that's good or bad.
Its usually a sign that I uselessly repeated something and failed to have something to add....lol
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:00 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Did you detail-strip, clean, inspect and lube the pistol before attempting to fire it? If not, do so and see if you still have a problem. I'll never forget when my father-in-law gave me a 1925 Woodsman with the caveat that 'It doesn't always extract'. I guess not, with 75 years of lead and firing residues caked in the extractor cut. Obviously the HP won't have the exact same problem, but it could be simply a dirty extractor spring bore.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2012, 06:37 PM
iim1awh iim1awh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
iim1ahw,

Start with the extractor spring first if you have to. In my Hi Powers and in those of several of my friends, Wolf recoil springs caused problems with feeding and ejecting and made working HPs inoperable. I would avoid Wolf springs altogether and stick to Browning springs, which are a known quantity. It looks to me that the Wolf HP springs are either outright bad, or they are putting the wrong springs in the bags.
I also had the same problem with Wolf springs in my CZ-75.

If you insist on using Wolf springs, I'd try the extractor repair first to see if that works, because if you introduce bad springs into the equation, you're likely to end up with a pistol with multiple issues that need fixing instead of just whatever you have now.

Good Luck!
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. Heading to the range in the morning.

Andy
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2012, 06:52 PM
dinho75 dinho75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Dinho75,

You only have one mag?
No, I have several 15 rd mags also, but I only brought the 10rd mag to the range that day. I'm not sure when I'll make it to the range again with the pistol as I am going to send it off to APW Cogan to have a beaver tail welded on as this pistol bites me somethin' fierce.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2012, 02:07 PM
1911inMaine 1911inMaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinho75 View Post
No, I have several 15 rd mags also, but I only brought the 10rd mag to the range that day. I'm not sure when I'll make it to the range again with the pistol as I am going to send it off to APW Cogan to have a beaver tail welded on as this pistol bites me somethin' fierce.
You can do that? If you could post more info or a link that would be awesome.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2012, 03:17 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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I do not want to take food from the mouth of Mr. Coogan. Heaven knows he is missing lots of meals. However....

Normally, with the original rowel hammer of a C series, it is pinch between the shank of the hammer and the frame of some user's flesh and this is certainly just as uncomfortable as bite.

Now, if you look at the geometry of the factory ring hammer at over cock, you can get an idea how much of a low ride beaver tail you are going to get to keep the hammer from bouncing off the welded up extension. Just a note that rubber grips will make the pinch feel even worse.

Another solution is try a spur hammer from the factory, which may be even made smaller if needed by abbreviating the spur, or a c and s, a Garthwaite, or a Chuck Warner abbreviated ring hammer. This is a reversible mod, cheaper than an add on weld up beavertail, does not require a refinish and lets your hand get a higher purchase on the back strap than a beavertail with a factory round hammer.

Then if you still have some concerns about Mr Coogan and his diet you can send a gift card for any number of restaurant chains or grocery stores. All kidding aside, with nice c series and t series getting fewer and farther between I like to throw some alternatives out to get the same benefit for less money and in some cases may also be a superior alternative in terms of shooter comfort and weapon appearance.

Soon, I will have a beavertail on a hi power. Not so much cause it is needed but because it is part of the package. It is being done to a 2003 hi power and with an abbreviated round hammer to keep the high purchase there and older hi powers that might be around the same.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:10 AM
dinho75 dinho75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
I do not want to take food from the mouth of Mr. Coogan. Heaven knows he is missing lots of meals. However....

Normally, with the original rowel hammer of a C series, it is pinch between the shank of the hammer and the frame of some user's flesh and this is certainly just as uncomfortable as bite.

Now, if you look at the geometry of the factory ring hammer at over cock, you can get an idea how much of a low ride beaver tail you are going to get to keep the hammer from bouncing off the welded up extension. Just a note that rubber grips will make the pinch feel even worse.

Another solution is try a spur hammer from the factory, which may be even made smaller if needed by abbreviating the spur, or a c and s, a Garthwaite, or a Chuck Warner abbreviated ring hammer. This is a reversible mod, cheaper than an add on weld up beavertail, does not require a refinish and lets your hand get a higher purchase on the back strap than a beavertail with a factory round hammer.

Then if you still have some concerns about Mr Coogan and his diet you can send a gift card for any number of restaurant chains or grocery stores. All kidding aside, with nice c series and t series getting fewer and farther between I like to throw some alternatives out to get the same benefit for less money and in some cases may also be a superior alternative in terms of shooter comfort and weapon appearance.

Soon, I will have a beavertail on a hi power. Not so much cause it is needed but because it is part of the package. It is being done to a 2003 hi power and with an abbreviated round hammer to keep the high purchase there and older hi powers that might be around the same.
Thanks for the suggestion, but actually it is the lower rear of the ring of the hammer that is zinging my hand (as a result of the slide moving back from the recoil impulse). Complicating matters is the fact that pistol already had a fantastic trigger job (3.5 lbs) performed by Mr. Coogan's shop using a C&S standard ring hammer. I'm guessing that swapping the hammer would probably mess up the trigger job.

I've never been bitten by the spur hammer on my Mk III. Maybe the trigger job had nothing to do with the hammer hooks and everything to do with the sear angle. Now if I could only find a chrome spur hammer without having to wait forever for it...

Last edited by dinho75; 11-02-2012 at 01:13 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2012, 07:32 AM
1911inMaine 1911inMaine is offline
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I have a pre mk ii kareen with a spur hammer that bites while racking slide. I'll put a mess of rounds through it before I make a decision but I'm guessing I'm gonna end up bobbing the spur. Is it possible to remove enough spur to make the hammer to light to fully engage the firing pin or does the spring on the hammer strut provide all the energy needed. Kinda wanna avoid what could be a costly mistake.
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2012, 07:53 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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There is plenty of extra mass in factory 1935 hammer. This is mostly due to leaving plenty of meat for cocking and uncocking without slipping. I have seen a hi power hammer or two abbreviated all the way down to flush with the rear of the slide. Yes that does limit your cocking and uncocking options but you get the idea. There was one done in the fashion on the Novak website in the guns for sale area.
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:20 PM
dinho75 dinho75 is offline
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Do you think the problem would be solved by installing a Type II commander style hammer (the 1911 looking one)?
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:39 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Novak does a no bite mod for spur hammers. Basically gring a semi circular dished are in the back of the hammer below the spur that eliminates the material where the web of the hand might get pinched. A search for good pics of the back side of a Novak done gun will show the mod to good effect.

Edit - Links to pics
http://novaksights.com/assets/images...p00142_jpg.htm
http://novaksights.com/assets/images...42808R_jpg.htm
http://novaksights.com/assets/images...ps94Rw_jpg.htm

Last edited by BBBBill; 11-02-2012 at 01:59 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:00 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Of the c and s hammers out there, I am given to understand the type ll is the one most associated with pain. I have used the type l and it gives me no trouble. The factory spur gives me no trouble. The factory rowel is problematic for me and more so with rubber grips. The easiest hammer to improve the geometry of is the spur. That may still be problematic for you if an abbreviated commander type gives difficulties. Maybe in a few days I can do something of a pictorial but that would not take into account anatomical variables associated with various users.
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Patrick Kelly Patrick Kelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Novak does a no bite mod for spur hammers. Basically gring a semi circular dished are in the back of the hammer below the spur that eliminates the material where the web of the hand might get pinched. A search for good pics of the back side of a Novak done gun will show the mod to good effect.
I've performed this modification on factory spur hammers with a dremel tool. If one has a modicum of mechanical ability it's very easy to do. This solves the hammer bite issue for me with the BHP. The rowel hammer chews up my hand worse than anything I've ever experienced, no hop[e there for me regardless of the modification.
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