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Well this was a bunch of bad ideas rolled into one

16K views 215 replies 61 participants last post by  BHPower 
#1 ·
#8 ·
He's lucky he wasn't charged w/something.
Charge him with what? He did what he KNEW was legal. That's why they let him go and no charges will be filed.

From the article:
"Under Montana Code, a private person may arrest another when there is probable cause to believe that the person is committing or has committed an offense and the existing circumstances require the person's immediate arrest. The private person may use reasonable force to detain the arrested person."

They used to hang horse thieves. And stealing is stealing. I for one support him.
Wanna bet on whether or not those two scumbags will think twice the next time they try to steal something?
 
#22 ·
Agree 100%. A private citizen engaging shoplifters is stupid enough, but shooting at tires is even dumber. This guy must have watched too many TV shows. Depending on the angle of impact and the tires rolling, the bullet can just as easily bounce off instead of penetrate a tire. Either way, you've now got stray bullets flying looking for a home, each of which this knucklehead is responsible for. I live in the Chicago area. It's not the bullet with my name on it that I worry about. It's all those bullets labeled "To whom it may concern".
 
#6 · (Edited)
This might offend some, but guys like this need to live in New Jersey for a while. Where you learn gun laws are hard to come by and that carrying is a real priviledge (and unfortunately not a right to bear arms) to protect ones self and family that we lack. Not a license to play cop, dumb ass.

In other words, if your state observes the 2A, then be grateful you have the oppertunity and means to protect yourself and loved ones and use your ****'n brain.
 
#69 ·
It is a felony if what they stole was over $50.00, at least that's what the amount use to be, now days it has been bumped up to $500.00 in some states.
 
#19 · (Edited)
As you can see we have our wanna be Police, SWAT, Special Forces members here who feel it is a good thing anytime you get a chance to pull your weapon and discharge it. In this case most reasonable people would determine his actions were not prudent some innocent onlooker could have been injured or killed.

The shooter should go back into active service or go to work as a LEO and get trained on when and when not to shoot out tires in a parking lot with no regard for ricochet's which LEO's do not generally do for shoplifting lol.

7.62Kolector does not see anything wrong with doing this. Indeed a scary position to take is the spray and pray method......
 
#79 · (Edited)
The criminal driver was moving into the legally armed citizen, thus potentially causing bodily harm in his/her attempt to flee from the scene of the crime they committed.
Not to defend the thieves, but......

Unless they were threatening death or serious bodily harm to someone, the shooter was wrong, and shoplifting is not a felony worthy of being killed over.

Willfully stepping in front of their car is his responsibility for putting his life in harms way, not theirs, (wrongful imprisonment) so in reality, him shooting at them is causing unneeded deadly force to be applied and if they shot back and killed him to protect their lives, it would be less wrong.

The issue of the theft is not the issue at hand, but unlawful use of deadly force is.

The shooter escalated every step of the confrontation so is wrong in every way.
He should have taken photos of them, the vehicle and the plate, nothing more.

If in doing so they were to steer at him and try to run him down, that would change everything.
 
#24 ·
Here are some other important words, "...circumstances require the person's immediate arrest." No way was a citizen's arrest "required". Specifically illegal here in Michigan. An idiot did just that at a mall here; shooting out tires. I haven't heard that she was charged with anything, but she ~did~ lose her CPL.
 
#25 ·
No..This moron is the one who needs to be arrested..Who is he to make a decision on whether these people are "shoplifting" or not? Did he consider these were all their belongings,and they were living in their car? I'd run to if some goofball was shooting at me.SERIOUSLY? The car is doing 60 MPH in mall parking lot,people all around,and this lunatic is still throwing wild shots when they're 100 yards away? I don't think so..If I was there,I might have shot HIM..Where does he think he is,Baghdad?? See what the judge says when he accidentally kills someone for shoplifting..
 
#28 ·
Use of lethal force to detain a person who "might" have shoplifted. When "they" refuse to be detained, "they" not knowing who is trying to detain them, actually employ lethal force to prevent them from leaving. For real? Apparently so. The only question I have is, what would this Marine do had he actually killed somebody?
 
#29 ·
I agree that shoplifting is not an excuse to use deadly force but that really isn't the issue here. In Montana shoplifting is a crime and reason for another law abiding citizen to arrest those doing the crime. He did not fire his gun because of shoplifting. The situation escalated and they resisted arrest and they tried to back over him. He said only then did he even draw his gun. If they tried to back over a cop they would be charged with attempted vehicular homicide.

I would not have done what he did but he stayed within the law.
 
#141 ·
I would not have done what he did but he stayed within the law.
Arizona law is very similar. Not very smart but within the law.

Right up until he kept firing at a fleeing vehicle. Every shot after that would be far from within the law.

Montana Code 45-3-102. Use of force in defense of person. A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the conduct is necessary for self-defense or the defense of another against the other person's imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm to the person or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
 
#39 ·
Done good, Done bad

I do not care what anyone thinks good or bad. However as a responsible gun owner I would not fire a weapon upon another over shop lifting. IMO a weapon is for self defense, only.

When you draw that gun you are putting your life on the line and presenting a major risk to the other party and everyone around you. I am not even going into the taking of a life.

Now come after my family or break in my home I hope and pray I can hit 6 center mass reload and find cover.
 
#42 ·
I do not care what anyone thinks good or bad. However as a responsible gun owner I would not fire a weapon upon another over shop lifting. IMO a weapon is for self defense, only.
Once again. He didn't fire his gun over shoplifting. He didn't even draw his gun over shoplifting. It was only when the female tried to back over him that he first drew his gun. A cop would have drawn his gun at that point too, if not before when she first started the engine.
 
#48 ·
In San Antonio, the Home Depot does not prosecute shoplifters. They won't try to stop them at the door, in the parking lot, or anywhere else. What it boils down to is if you need something and it is on sale at Home Depot, just walk in, pick it up, walk out - no harm, no foul. This was explained to me by a store manager.

As to the citizen firing at the vehicle, the statement was made that the car tried to roll back into him when he then pulled the gun and fired. Also no harm, no foul. Self defense and a fear of potential injury warrants deadly force most anywhere.
 
#49 ·
As to the citizen firing at the vehicle, the statement was made that the car tried to roll back into him when he then pulled the gun and fired. Also no harm, no foul. Self defense and a fear of potential injury warrants deadly force most anywhere.
From what I see, all shots were fired after the vehicle began to pull forward away from the shooter. Including one shot while the vehicle was at considerable distance driving away.

No matter how you slice it, I just cannot get passed a citizen bringing a gun into a shoplifting incident. He did not need to stand behind the vehicle endangering himself. If the law allows his actions in his state, I would be voting to change them there laws. :D
 
#50 ·
The narrative doesn't mesh with the film... the shooters arms appear extended in a shooting stance long BEFORE the vehicle moves, and the driver exits...

Too many seem to think that carrying a weapon somehow empowers them, gives them the authority of an LEO. If one wants to be an LEO, great. More power to you. If not, then don't introduce a gun into a non violent situation.

A citizen has no business introducing a gun into an event until just cause for killing someone exists, and not an instant before.

I've been hit by a car in a parking lot by a negligent and reckless driver, who then started cursing me and using racial insults... a gun didn't enter the equation- until she exited the vehicle with a weapon in hand and articulated intent to do me harm. It was discussed in depth here several months ago.
 
#55 ·
The narrative doesn't mesh with the film... the shooters arms appear extended in a shooting stance long BEFORE the vehicle moves, and the driver exits...
Yes, it does seem to mesh to me since that is what the article says.

I would guess he drew his gun at about the 10 second mark in the video.
The car was running.
The female criminal screamed "back up....back the car up".
The male criminal put the car in reverse but did not move.
The gun was drawn.
The citizen said if he hit him he would shoot him.
The male criminal put the car back in Park and took off on foot.
The female criminal moved to the drivers seat.
The female criminal backed up twice hitting the citizen.
The citizen shot at the tires only not at the criminals and the car drove away.
 
#57 ·
Guess he thought he was batman.

Stupid.

If someone was in danger, I'm always going to help, but stopping shoplifters?

Come on, stuff like this is bad for us.
 
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