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Testing your defense gun

5K views 57 replies 40 participants last post by  Chowser 
#1 ·
I often hear of people who only shoot a few familiarization rounds through a defensive gun then no longer shoot it. A gentleman on another forum remarked that his Ruger LCP has proven reliable over the 200 or so rounds that he's fired it, and that he will only shoot maybe another 100 rounds in any given year. I used to own a Kahr P9 that was my main CCW for awhile... until the day I decided to shoot up the carry ammo that was in it at the range, and it immediately had a double-feed after the first shot! My confidence in it was immediately shaken, and even though it never jammed again after that I didn't want to trust it so I sold it.

Fast forward to the past couple of years, my pocket carry (another Kahr, this time a P380) started having light-strike issues which quickly got worse, and I stopped carrying it until it could be sorted out. I changed to my Kel-Tec P-32 in the meantime, which I'd fired off and on in the past and had proven reliable. Well, I decided to practice with it the other week, and it started to spontaneously disassemble on me! The takedown pin kept walking out and would jam the gun. So I had to give up on carrying that as well until I could get it fixed.

It just goes to show, you can't simply fam-fire a gun and then do nothing but carry it all the time. You need to let it take its turn at the range every so often just to be sure everything is still working properly. Don't assume that just because you haven't been shooting it that it's still fine. And definitely don't let your carry ammo get too stale or beat up from repeated chambering. Any equipment that hasn't been double-checked or recently proven shouldn't be trusted.
 
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#34 ·
You will not catch me carrying a gun.

That I do not have confidence in.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Guns used for concealed carry......

Right or wrong, everyone may have their own ideas about "the best" carry gun, "the best caliber choice" how often they need to practice, etc.

Since the idea of a self defense weapon is to save yourself or others when needed, I have "my own rules" about an EDC gun:

1) The gun must be accurate and reliable... I like a gun that will shoot at least a sub two inch 5 shot group at 25 yards or less. All of my EDC guns shoot 1.5"-2" 5 shot groups at 25 yards, and close to 3"-4" 5-shot groups at 50 yards....just my preference. I know "most self defense encounters are under 10 yds.....but one never knows....

2) I strive to use the same JHP ammo, and I prefer a powerful caliber that provides roughly 450-500 ft. lbs. of energy from the muzzle, regardless of the caliber choice. I like a `125 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP that leaves the muzzle of my 1911 Commander .38 super at approximately 1350 ft. per sec. This provides just over 500 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle with excellent penetration. I am a reloader and have found that AA#7 with a Speer 125gr. Gold Dot works very well in my gun. I had to use a 25 lb. main spring and slightly heavy recoil spring to slow down the slide velocity for reliable functioning, but it works very well and kicks the brass out about 3-4 ft from the gun. The recoil is stout, but not excessive, since I use an all steel gun that is heavier than the plastic/polymer guns. IMHO, the heavier the gun, the better it reduces felt recoil and muzzle flip with powerful ammo. A good holster can mitigate the weight of a heavier gun......

3) I use the same OWB holster position when I practice and when I carry concealed.....this allows a very natural draw. I also carry at least one ten round mag in the same position on my opposite hip, so if a reload is ever needed, it is in the same position as when I practice at the range.......

4) I most often wear a "one size larger" and loose fitting golf shirt that remains untucked.....this conceals my gun very well with very little printing.
I often practice lifting the shirt with my weak hand and conducting one shot draws. I also practice Speed Rock draws.....

5) My choice for a concealed carry weapon is not a pocket gun, but one that is 9mm or larger, that allows a good grip on the gun. I have no use for a small .380, which IMHO is not a good choice from a ballistics standpoint. If I ever felt the need for a BUG, which I seldom do, I would use a Kel Tec PF-9 or Ruger LC 9mm in an ankle holster.......

My thoughts on self defense carry may be entirely different than others, but that is OK..... However, the best way to become confident with your concealed carry gun choice is to shoot it..... If you shoot it too much and worry about wearing it out, good for you...... just buy another gun!!!
 
#37 ·
Here's my outlook on proving the reliability of your carry gun/ammo combo.

Would you drive your car if the brakes only worked some of the time? Of course not. Same logic should apply to the gun/ammo combo you may have to bet your life on.
 
#38 ·
Your post made me question my own logic....... if I depended on one car to get me to work, was absolutely dependent on that job for my family's meals, and risked termination if I was late...... would I take my Ford Focus to track days twice per week? I wonder if I'm taking my PPS to track days as I'm now shooting the snot out of it.
 
#39 ·
I have shot the snot out of many 1911s over the past 40+ years. I wish my cars and trucks held up as well as the guns. I don't know how round count and mileage might equate, but I have perfectly serviceable 1911's (with zillions of rounds thru them) that were built 40 or more years ago. I have no 40 year old vehicles.
FWIW, my desk gun in the gun room is a 1944 GI Colt. If need be, I'd bet my life on it and I can only imagine how many rounds that gun has digested.
 
#40 ·
I've run my shield 9mm through four 8 hour defensive shooting courses.

Probably have over 3,000 rounds through it. I don't shoot it as often now but it does see one BUG match and a few range trips a year.

The only thing it really hates is remanufactured ammo from summit and freedom munitions.

Factory new ammo is flawless.
 
#42 ·
Any gun revolver out there can all of a sudden not fire for any number of reasons when you pull the trigger! They are mechanical items that can and do fail!!!!!

I guess I am lucky. I don't shoot as much as I would like to, but I do take my carry gun with me when ever I go to shoot every time. I always fire off at least 50 rounds of my carry ammo and some practice ammo each time.

So far, no gun that I have chosen to carry has given me a reason to doubt it! My main carry gun for 7 years was a Walther PPS in 9mm. That thing never failed once! I am now carrying a S&W Shield in .45 as my main daily carry and so far, it's flawless too!

I carry other larger guns as weather and clothing allows. But none of those have given me a single failure either!
 
#43 ·
It's interesting how many posts here involve guns that worked last time, but didn't work this time.

I was shooting a gun an IDPA match, and I keep my "barney mag" in my hip pocket. After sitting at lunch, every round from that mag nose-dived.

After a chrono session with my then-new Delta Elite, it was cleaned and put away, and the next time I was at the range I discovered that the firing pin had broken on the last round fired at the previous session.

I had bought three or four blued Shooting Star mags, used them weekly for a year, then two of them started stovepiping on the same day.

All are instances of the gun not working BECAUSE it had been used, when what we seem to be more worried about is the gun not working because it hasn't been shot enough to be a proven performer?
 
#44 ·
Yup. Murphy's law is a B. Had my gen 4 G19 slide stop spring fly out at a USPSA event on the last shot of the 3rd stage. Bricked my gun. A competitor loaned me his glock for the rest of the day.

That's why it's important to practice malfunction drills and train in unarmed combat sports for a well rounded self defense arsenal.
 
#45 ·
I was at a IDPA match in Va. last month when a shooter lost the front sight off his Glock. He said that was his second gun in a week that that happened to. Go figure. You just have to hope the S+%# doesn't happen when it counts I guess.
 
#46 ·
Had two shotguns lock up today.

One was the greenhouse Mossberg pump. It had not been fired in months. The stink bugs had moved in and just locked up everything. The trigger would not even pull. The other was a century old double gun that did not like some hot slugs.

I say run them, Good bad or ugly. If they are going to fail, better now then when it matters. And you can learn along the way.
 
#47 ·
I usually consider that if a gun has had a couple of hundred rounds through it without failure that it is trustworthy enough to carry. But, I try to make it to the range once a week. I don't always make it every week like clockwork, but I don't let too many weeks elapse before I am back there. I generally go through a couple of hundred rounds minimum each time I go to the range. Not every time, but most of the time, I work a minimum of a few mags through my carry gun while there. So far, my current go to carry gun has not let me down, and I have been doing this with that one for going on three years now. I am as confident in it as I can be, based on the above. But, I am not going to give it a blanket seal of approval. I like to see it keep delivering. On an ongoing basis.
 
#48 ·
Ideal scenario:

1. Shoot your carry gun until you're sure it's 100% reliable. Afterwards don't abuse it, but do take it to the range at least a couple times a year and put some rounds through it to be sure it still works. Clean it often, and always finish by making sure it will launch a pencil or chopstick (that way you know it didn't go back together wrong).

2. Have a duplicate gun that you can thrash at the range or in IDPA matches. It will also make a great substitute in case the main gun goes down and needs repair. And third, if it starts having breakage or jamming problems then it might serve as an indicator that your main gun could be vulnerable to the same issues as well.
 
#49 ·
When I go to the pistol range, the first guns shot are my carry guns including spare magazines. I want to know they work as carried.

When I get a new semi-auto carry pistol, I shoot several hundred inexpensive full metal jacket rounds to check for infant mortality. After that, I only shoot defensive ammo in that gun.
 
#51 · (Edited)
IPSC to Function Test

I "Break-In" every new pistol with a few hundred rounds from the bench then hammer it out in USPSA matches. Best way to test pistol and gear.

A USPSA match demands a lot from shooter, pistol and gear. I'll oil it and shoot close to 1K rounds before I clean it. I vary the ammo and shoot one match with carry ammunition.

When finished, I am confident my pistol is ready to defend my life.
 
#52 ·
Have three CCO configured pistols that are rotated for carry; a Colt WC CCO, a Guncrafter 9mm CCO, and a Wilson ULC Carry Commander in 9mm. The new IDPA CCP class is a perfect venue for the ongoing testing of these pistols, as well as shooting them on our home range. I have dedicated magazines for each pistol and the reason for this was recently reinforced. Purely by accident during a practice session, I found out that one of the Wilson mags that came with the ULC CC will not work in the GI gun; it will not lock the slide back or freely eject from the pistol when empty. I'll now pay closer attention to which mags are carried with which guns. Note to self: there is a reason I have dedicated mags, pay closer attention! I agree that testing should be an ongoing activity; plus shooting those nice blasters is fun!
 
#54 · (Edited)
I have been to seven CCL courses here in OK. Once for me, my wife, and my daughter. And six to help out an instructor. Classes average about a dozen people.

You see ALL kinds of weird and scary stuff!

I would guestimate that only one or two in a class are truly proficient. Those are the same ones who also bring well made firearms, practice good safety rules, hit their targets, and don't have any malfunctions. They are also the ones who shoot their chosen weapon often.

The others are a strange mash-up. They bring scads of different antique-to-just-bought firearms - some still wearing plastic tags - some loaded (and they don't even know it!) - some in purses - some in pockets - some in a sock! Even a Glock in a sock!

Many of the firearms have to be nurtured through the course, with many stoppages, and failures. Often - a couple people per class - an instructor owned Ruger MkIII will replace whatever the person brought. They always seem amazed to shoot a firearm that will get through a magazine without a hiccup.

Even after being shown good technique - they still revert to something they saw in a movie or on TV for their "shooting style." I have seen MANY that I - personally - would not put my name to their certificate, but I was not in charge, And I would not deny any person the ability to defend themselves.

Part of the instructor's offering is to encourage applicants to get further (paid) instruction, and/or more range practice time. The people who do well invariably say something like, "Oh yeah, I train with my self-defense guns regularly." The others (you know who) say something like, "Why waste good ammo?", "I'm plenty good enough." or even the proverbial, "If I just show 'em my gun they'll run away."

Not everyone that owns a gun and carries it concealed has the common sense to become proficient with it. But I STILL will not deny them the right to carry it. I just always remind them:

"Everyone, at some time or another, sits down to a banquet of consequences."
 
#55 ·
I suppose there are guys who never shoot their carry guns but I would think that's a pretty extreme and rare thing. What I do is, at some point I'll take it to the range, and with no preparation at all, or anything different than as if I had pulled it to defend myself, I will fire the whole magazine and a second mag even though I never carry two mags. I haven't had one of my carries fail that simple test. After this firing, it gets cleaned, oiled, function tested, dry-fired and re-loaded.
I'm definitely opposed to wearing out anything before its time to prove that it'll work until worn out - that's a fool's errand.
 
#57 ·
I suppose there are guys who never shoot their carry guns but I would think that's a pretty extreme and rare thing.
About a decade or so ago there was an active shooter inside a Seattle-area shopping mall. By some miracle despite spraying dozens of bullets he only managed to strike and wound one person... a mall employee who was carrying on that particular day and who tried to stop the gunman. Unfortunately his carry gun was in such poor condition it literally had rust on it, and it jammed when he began trading fire with the gunman. In a way he's lucky because he lived, but he's now a paraplegic. Had he actually maintained his defense gun and practiced with it instead of letting it rust in the holster the story might have had a better ending.
 
#56 ·
Just shot mine yesterday, If I'm pressed for time at the range, and not taking multiple pistols, then I'll shoot some of my JHP reloads, or ball ammo thru my carry pistol. As above, no prep, out of the holster into the range bag, and ran through its paces. I use the stock mags, the WC mags I have and some other 8 rounders that are just range mags for full size frames. Then cleaned and ready for next time.
 
#58 ·
I used to not vet a gun. Last time was my new issued duty gun, a gen4 Glock 31. Was busy so I just took it out of the box, ran a bore snake through it, installed the medium beavertail, loaded it up and went to work. A week later I finally got down to range to qualify with it and on the third round the slide seized up. I had to smack the front end on the ground to get it to open. Couldn't see anything wrong. Finished off the mag and have had no issues since.
Strange.

My new break in routine now is to run a case of practice ammo and two boxes of carry ammo in any gun before I carry it.

I just got another new gun in. I loaded up all eight mags with a variety of ammo and shot them all.

I have two CZ P10Cs on order and will have a dozen mags between them. Each gun will get shot with twelve mags for initial break in and twelve more mags suppressed. The one I carry will then get shot some more with carry ammo. The second gun is the one I am not cleaning. I bought it to purposely abuse and will leave it at work for coworkers to abuse with a note on it not to clean or lube.
 
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