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Off duty LAPD discharges firearm in scuffle with teen

9K views 92 replies 57 participants last post by  FightinTXAggie 
#1 ·
Watched the video of the altercation and it appears to me the off duty officer had unitentionally discharged his firearm.

It also appears to me the officer did just about everything wrong that he possibly could have from start to finish.

Thoughts?
 
#3 ·
Full 8 minute video.

https://youtu.be/ORhjq0U_It0

Looks like he's carrying cross draw on his left side. Right hand full of disrespectful punk and had trouble drawing his gun with his left. Not sure he should have done that. But equally the kid in white shirt with red backpack bum rushed him and pushed him over the hedge.
I DO NOT hear the officer ever yell or announce I'M A COP BACK OFF? But once again we see a group of teens surrounding him and threatening him. Each and every one is capable of hurting him as well.
One reason I'm not a cop. This one will get really sticky. I think he accidentally fired his gun while trying to drag the kid thru the hedge. Certainly doesn't seem to point it at or fire it at anyone. The only thing I can hear is in the beginning the kid he has ahold of says 'I didn't say that. I said I was gonna kill you.' At least that's what I think he said. And I'm not even sure he said that to the cop or to another kid and that was the reason for the cop grabbing him up? In today's world though I don't think it will end well for the cop.
 
#92 ·
When you live in a society where you're not permitted to discipline children, where kids are taught since the youngest age that they are the epicentre of the universe and that whatever their actions there are no real consequences, where profanity in the mouth of a kid is considered normal, where teachers at school have no rights to assert authority, where kids can freely watch porn and real violence on TV and the Net, where there are no moral barriers allowed in raising children...

You wonder why kids have no respect for the law???????

Methink that the very foundations of the US and European child education has rotten from below, and that you're reaping the consequences.
 
#5 ·
You can hear the teen(s) saying that they don't believe he's a cop etc.... This would lead me to believe that he's announced that he is LE. But today young people don't even respect any adult for that matter. So by announcing that he's LE in regular clothes and no badge, they of course think he's just some over powering "get off my lawn" type adult they don't need to listen to.

I'm a young pup by most modern standards. But even when I was 13 where I grew up and how I was raised, we respected adults whether right or wrong and just moved on. I've seen parents my own age (35) tell their children to challenge adults when they think they are wrong etc... And depending on which type of raising the child is brought up in, (respect for LE or not) this can lead to all the problems we see today with teens having zero respect etc...

Did the LEO do everything right or wrong in the video, I was not there and these videos uploaded are usually posted to show a certain time frame to prove a certain point. Whether extra video exists to show the beginning or not is left to be seen. So I cannot say anything other than, let the investigation of an officer that discharged their weapon go on without public interfering.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Just to be clear. The teen claims he said " I will sue you" and not "I will shoot you"

Although, that is irrelevent. My point for addressing this is to share opinions on if the off duty officer reacted to the situation ( based on what we see in the video) in a professional manner.

He could have said he was a cop before the video starts, and I assume he did based on the youths mentioning "cop" during the altercation.

Where I am having an issue with this is he drags the kid around instead of attemting to detain him.
 
#8 ·
Where I am having an issue with this is he drags the kid around instead of attemting to detain him.
The moment he goes to detain the teen on the ground without backup there, he exposes himself to a whole host of hostile options with a group of angry people around him!!!!!

Many times you will see LE not take down their person they are trying to arrest alone in a situation where they can be piled on by a mob!!!! He probably did not have handcuffs on him at this moment and have you ever tried to hold a 13 year old "kid" still if they don't want to be held?? Yeah, good luck. My 11 year old girl even when rough housing in "play" mode with hurt the living daylights out of me!

Now, he does/did seem like he had two options. Let the kid go and hope that his uniformed guys find him. Or, most likely option, engrained into most LE is to perform their duty to detain etc... It's hard for LE to put their brain into off duty mode since they are told that they are never off duty etc...

Just realize that LE have a tough call to make in such a short time. Is it always the right one. Maybe not. But the whole story is not in this video.
 
#9 · (Edited)
What would one expect the cop to do, he was being attacked by a mob, literally and plain and simple, it could have got very bad for him, very quickly. I would pull the gun too. Can't say if I would have fired after just watching the vid, but if I was there, in fear of my life or significant bodily hard, I would have no choice but to defend myself, whether with something less lethal or not. Don't know if he had anything on him of the less lethal variety, or would I judge him for not necessarily using it as I wan't there.

Was it an accidental discharge or intentional, I can't absolutely say from the vid. Maybe he used the shot to "scare" them away, and it looked like it worked.

Too bad 8 years of Obama has embolden so many, even kids, to have so much disrespect for the law that they would pile on a cop making a simple arrest (at first anyway). The mob escalated this into a violent, dangerous situation.
 
#10 ·
A couple of observations:

1) We don't know what happened prior to the beginning of the video.

2) The kid who dropped his backpack and inserted himself into the situation, as well as the kid in the white shirt with red backpack, need to be charged with assault.

3) Why didn't the bearded man with the crutch call the police prior to the presentation and negligent discharge of the weapon?

4) This won't end well for the off-duty officer.
 
#11 ·
I think that the guy made a really bad move.

To grab one kid out of a bunch of unruly teens by himself without back up. You are asking for it. Looks more like a cop wannabe. He is lucky the kid he grabbed did not knee or kick him in the nuts. What if one of the other kids had tried a gun grab on him. Sometimes you just need to walk away.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm guessing by that you mean Monday morning quarterbacks eh?

Not trying to be judge and jury...trying to understand if there would have been other alternatives that we can learn from by what was available to us in the video. Lot's of experience in this forum and maybe I or someone can learn something by comments.

I think we are all intelligent enough to understand - At the end of the day, it's all just opinions because we are not investigators assigned to this case nor seeing all the facts.

If we use your logic....the Armed Citizen threads would all look the same...can't comment, wasn't there.
 
#16 ·
If he was detaining the kid for a serious crime, he'll be ok. If he was defending his lawn, he's probably gonna be looking for a new line of work as a minimum. Maybe much worse.
 
#19 ·
The government employee was not in uniform or displaying a badge of any type. No reason why he should get any "cop" protections under the law. The government employee needs to do some hard prison time for his reckless manner with a firearm. The "only ones" are supposed to be trained. If this guy was trained, someone owes the tax payers a refund.
 
#18 ·
In the report I saw, they knew he a was a policeman, because they spray painted "PIG" on the front of his white house in red. I would have approached vandals doing that to my house with an already drawn weapon. That's just me, & we have "castle laws" in much of the south.
 
#20 ·
I was a cop for thirty years, retired 24 years ago. Wouldn't want to be in this guys situation. He will loose I'm afraid. If the anti immigration bunch doesn't get him his own department probably will. I watched the video. He never should have gotten himself in that situation in my opinion. Even on duty cops steer away from unnecessary confrontation now days.
 
#22 ·
Not really



Imprimis: It was HIS yard. His private property. He was surrounded by a crowd of teenaged punks, one of whom said, "I'll shoot you," when he told them to leave. When he tried to lawfully detain the little mouthbag who said that the others ganged up on him. They are very fortunate that several of them did not end up dead. He escalated the level of force following the situation as it escalated.

As far as the "...it appears to me." statement ... it is understandable that someone could decide that.

I don't know what was in the officer's mind when he fired the round either so I not going to attempt to judge him. I do know from 25 years on the streets and 9 more in admin that every situation demands that it be handled on its own merits.

Manuals give you guidelines but the response is just that. A reaction to what the other side does.

As far as blame? I blame the crappy parental units who have taught their little angels that it's OK to trespass on other folk's property then tell them,
"I'll shoot you." That one, the one who said that? He was paid for the moment he opened his mouth since the man had no way of knowing if the kid was armed and there is no legal responsibility to examine in detail to see if he's armed when he says that. All that is required is a reasonable belief that the offender is armed.
I think the kid is fortunate that he told that to a cop. Had he told a private citizen that it could have been bad for him.
 
#24 ·
That Video is time I will never get back. That being said I am glad I am not the ODPO who negligently discharged his weapon. Camera angle was not good maybe his hand was injured who knows?
This will be investigated thoroughly I am sure and maybe someone will post the outcome.
 
#25 ·
I cut across a few yards as a kid while walking home from school. Who didn't? If some homeowner had emerged and began dragging one of my friends across three yards by his neck like that, you can bet your ass I wouldn't be running home to tell mommy. I'd be helping my friend defend himself against some hot-headed child molesting douchebag who thought claiming to be a cop (without any proof) was enough to justify straight up physical assault as retribution for stepping on some well manicured grass.

The average citizen would never be allowed to get away with that kind of behavior against a child for such a trivial offense, so why should this unknown stranger be expected to get away with it just because he yelled "I'm a cop"? IMO, if you've got enough time to strap on your gun, then you have enough time to stick you badge in your pocket as well. This is the problem with authority figures who get brainwashed into thinking they're somehow exempt from the rule of common decency.
 
#45 ·
Are you kidding? How do you know he doesn't carry all the time? If you would READ something and stop assuming things you would know that they spray painted "PIG" on his house. Why don'tyou take your bull and shove it up where the sun doesn't shine. All those punk kids need to be charged with vandalism. And the 3 that assaulted the officer need to spend time in jail!
 
#27 ·
Never should have gotten to that point

I was an LEO for 30 years. I was also not there, so we only know what we see on the video. However, as a rule, I will say that you, the (LEO) should not try to exercise your LE authority in your own neighborhood, even if it is just to protect your personal piece of grass. So, if you have issues with neighbors, pretend you are not carrying a badge, call the local PD, file a complaint, talk to the kids parents, etc. Adults should know that engaging in this type of confrontation with teenagers will go badly most of the time. Not judging, but this could have been handled many different ways before it got to this point.
 
#81 ·
Most of us would agree that it was a difficult situation that was not handled well. Nowadays, being a homeowner is no picnic unless a) you have fortress walls or b) you don't care what happens to your property. Let's say this particular guy was just an average guy — average intelligence, average patience, average LE training. Over a period of time, he allowed this situation to worsen and unravel. I'm guessing that he was the kind of guy that could not see the advantage to backing off, hanging back and letting someone else deal with the kids. Instead, he allowed himself to get angry, and he wound up dragging a kid across several lawns and discharging his weapon while half a dozen people video-ed the whole thing.

I think this statement is really very smart --->

I was an LEO for 30 years. I was also not there, so we only know what we see on the video. However, as a rule, I will say that you, the (LEO) should not try to exercise your LE authority in your own neighborhood, even if it is just to protect your personal piece of grass. So, if you have issues with neighbors, pretend you are not carrying a badge, call the local PD, file a complaint, talk to the kids parents, etc. Adults should know that engaging in this type of confrontation with teenagers will go badly most of the time. Not judging, but this could have been handled many different ways before it got to this point.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I'm not in law enforcement, but this seems like a no-brainer. He had every right to defend his property. Perhaps he thought the local cops wouldn't get there in time or chasing them off his property didn't require the cops. The situation escalated and he was threatened and physically attacked by a group that was clearly able to cause his death or great bodily harm. His use of the firearm was justified once he felt threatened. To his credit, none of those disrespectful punks was injured.
 
#38 ·
+1.

There are still unanswered questions that need to be addressed.

In these "situation" videos, there seems to be 2 common threads:
1) the idiots ALWAYS outnumber their victim(s). No one-on-one encounters for these punks. (See BLM riots...The Knock Out game...the guy in this video...the lone guy at the stop light pulled out of his car by multiple black perps and beat on while they screamed "He voted for Trump" and stole everything in his car, in broad daylight...etc.)
2) at the first sound of gunfire, any kind of gun fire, intentional or unintentional, the rats flee the ship--------FAST!!!

Because of #1, and in an attempt to be prepared for the worst case scenario, at the worst possible time, I'm now carrying a hi cap CCW with one back-up mag.

YMMV.
 
#29 ·
He should have called 911.

I had a similar problem years ago with teens of the same age on ATV's destroying my swale. I have a property that has 300 linear feet of a wide, deep swale that is 50ft from my fence to the shoulder of the road. It is maintained by me and meticulously landscaped and mowed.

There used to be a loose gang of teenage boys, all equipped with $3000 to $6000 ATVs their parents bought them and they would just tear up the manicured lawn and turn it into a mud pit. They would come around like a pack of dogs in the afternoon after school and weekends.

Anyhow, I used to chase them away. I would call the cops and they insisted that I have no contact with the kids... just call 911. Mainly because with juveniles, it's a whole different set of laws that applies to them. You grab one or touch one, and you can be charged with a specific set of criminal laws designed to protect children. It is a very precarious situation when an adult deals with rude and destructive children.

Anyhow, I still would chase them out because there was no way that the cops could show up in time. But I made sure that I was unarmed except for my Canon 5D equipped with telephoto lens. They knew I would photograph them and that the police would show up and know who they were.

I also put up signs. But even the signs were a zoning and building violation because our municipality limits the types and numbers of no trespass signs we can post on our property.

Eventually the kids got the message but not before they would kick down the signs and run over them.

Anyhow, I haven't had that issue for several years now.

It takes patients and restraint when dealing with a gaggle of unruly kids. But for crying out loud... no guns with kids unless you know that you life is in danger, but not for a simple trespass issue.
 
#30 ·
Hard to tell what precipitated the video... Why was he trying to detain the kid? Without knowing that I cannot form much of an opinion.

The shot appears to be accidental and unfortunate. He should have just let the punk go.

He does appear to keep backing up throughout the video to prevent the other kids from surrounding him and leading to the type of scenario that happened
 
#44 · (Edited)
Unless you're an officer and have first hand information, don't judge.
Easy there gastapo...I'm not out protesting and calling for his head. I have an opinion on it and am curious who here might or might not support it. I have an open mind, because I'm not law enforcement and don't have the experience and might learn I am wrong. Seems even the law officers here are very split on this. Some agreeing with me and some not. So far I still tend to agree with those with experience here that do agree. Because quite frankly those here supporting his actions are not making much common sense. Example...they are saying kids were ganging up on him...video I watched had a grown adult dragging a kid around the yard from end to end. Justified...maybe, maybe not...but HE the law officer was clearly the one who was man handling and escelating the situation to the point where the friend jumped in. In other words....this didn't start out with a full on kid gang assault on him.

I'll put this another way..if some punk kids came down my road...threatened to shoot me and harassed me (without actually showing metal) , I would either walk away or kick some kid ass the old fashioned way. Gun would be pulled when I thought I was gonna die.

I may not be LE, but my father was and I am good friends with one. I know they are trained to take verbal abuse.

Also, at the very least...he negligently discharged his firearm. Not super good.
 
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