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  #26  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:56 AM
Rivoak Rivoak is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
A .22 gas gun??? Can you name one????


My understanding is an M&P 15-22, as any other AR is cycled by the gases escaping from a cartridge as it is fired. Please correct me if I am wrong because for instance the 5.7 is a gas blow back gun that is another form of gun cycled by escaping gases.

I might be calling a wrong named technically.


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  #27  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:25 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
I think about all the new gun owners who can not buy ammo to practice assuming they would want to. I know a friend of my wife's who never liked guns before wants to get one and just enough ammo to fill her "clip" so she is safe. No practice, no training, just the assumption that shooting is easy.
My elderly mother is the same way. She hasn't fired a gun since she dated my dad before I was even born. When he passed away I gave her his Ruger .22 pistol, but she has repeatedly refused my offers to come to the range with me and try it out. Like many anti-gun people she has this assumption that guns are extremely easy to use, and that even an idiot can operate one well enough to kill someone with it. My attempts at convincing her that it isn't that simple have fallen on deaf ears.
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  #28  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:29 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Rivoak View Post
My understanding is an M&P 15-22, as any other AR is cycled by the gases escaping from a cartridge as it is fired. Please correct me if I am wrong because for instance the 5.7 is a gas blow back gun that is another form of gun cycled by escaping gases.

I might be calling a wrong named technically.


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An "AR" action is totally different than a .22 semi auto action.

22 Rimfire actions are defined as "blowback" actions. They are operated purely from the blowback of the burning propellant gases. There is no delay in the opening of the bolt.

What most of us call "Gas guns" have a separate tube off the barrel that directs gases towards the bolt thus cycling the bolt with a delay such that by the time the bolt has opened, pressure has dropped dramatically.

Then there are some AR's that are piston driven. Still gas operated... Just a bit different.

You probably meant to say .22 blowback actions.

But in my experience, .22 semi Auto guns are ridiculously reliable. Now the ammo itself.....that's a different story. In my estimation 22 ammo has an ignition failure rate of 3-5%.

Last edited by TRSOtto; 03-22-2020 at 11:34 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:31 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivoak View Post
My understanding is an M&P 15-22, as any other AR is cycled by the gases escaping from a cartridge as it is fired. Please correct me if I am wrong because for instance the 5.7 is a gas blow back gun that is another form of gun cycled by escaping gases.

I might be calling a wrong named technically.
Unfortunately you're using incorrect terminology. .22 rimfire firearms are blowback-operated, meaning the slide or bolt is not locked and that the expanding gasses which push the bullet out of the barrel also push back on the slide or bolt to cycle the action. Centerfire handguns like a 1911 are recoil-operated, which means while the force of the gasses do operate the action the slide and barrel remain locked together for the first 1/4" or so of travel, and then from there the inertia, aka recoil causes the slide to continue back after it finally unlocks from the slide. Centerfire rifles are usually gas-operated, meaning the gas is tapped from a hole in the barrel and impinges against a piston which unlocks and cycles the bolt. But people usually don't call them "gas guns", because that term is usually reserved for guns that are fired using compressed gas instead of gunpowder.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #30  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
But in my experience, .22 semi Auto guns are ridiculously reliable. Now the ammo itself.....that's a different story. In my estimation 22 ammo has an ignition failure rate of 3-5%.
The quality of most .22 rimfire ammo these days is very poor. The reason why CCI Mini-Mags are usually the first to disappear from store shelves during ammo scares is because it they're one of the few good brands. I recently bought bulk ammo from Walmart that I've ended up relegating to using only through my lever-action, because it is so inconsistent power-wise that it jams in virtually all of my semi-autos. And like you I get at least one misfire every 100 rounds or so. The .22 rimfire is a great cartridge for economical plinking, but with that kind of poor reliability I wouldn't recommend it for any serious use like self defense. If .22 ammo cost as much as 9mm does it would quickly fall from favor, because its low cost and negligible recoil are the only two things going for it.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #31  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:45 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
You're confused. When Obama was elected, you can couldn't find .22's anywhere. When Trump was elected, nothing happened WRT ammo supplies or prices.

EDIT:.....BTW....if you're a free market capitalist, you can't be bitching about anyone raising the price of ammo. Demand went through the roof and the supplies are suddenly limited. You might not like it....but it's ECON 101.
Totally agree but. Is it it ethical?? After what cheaper than dirt did after sandy hook I have not and will not buy from them again. I must be the only one who lives by his principles because they are still in business so what do I know.

When the price gougers are out we all want to burn them at the stake then when its over we forget how sleazy they were.
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:53 AM
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In times of panic businesses have three options:

1. Continue to sell at original prices, and sell out quickly. New product will no longer be sold to you at a discount so you're going to lose money.

2. Raise prices to offset increased costs of goods, get a few irate customers but still end up selling out of everything you have.

3. Raise prices a ridiculous amount, creating a lot of angry customers. You'll lose a lot of sales but will make it up on the product you actually DO sell at the inflated profit. Plus your inventory won't deplete nearly as fast so you'll never be looking at empty shelves and no product to sell anybody.

Apparently Cheaper Than Dirt has found that the third option works best for them during a buying panic. It sucks for the rest of us, but if the last time they did it had hurt them financially they wouldn't be doing it again. My local gun shop/indoor range also drastically inflated their ammo prices during the Sandy Hook scare, and while it pissed off a lot of customers they DID always have ammo on the shelves.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 03-22-2020 at 11:55 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:55 AM
sparkyfender sparkyfender is offline
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One man's gouging is another man's smart business practice.

Don't buy it if you think the price is too high. The seller will either sell it to someone else or lower his price, the way it should be. Whatever the market will bear.
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2020, 02:23 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Originally Posted by EL Perdido View Post
The cold hasn't kept the Hollywoods away. They are inundating Teton county at this very moment

Their money will drive up real estate prices, and they will influence local politics
No cure for this cancer, eh?

There's gotta be a cure.
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2020, 03:14 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
Totally agree but. Is it it ethical?? After what cheaper than dirt did after sandy hook I have not and will not buy from them again. I must be the only one who lives by his principles because they are still in business so what do I know.

When the price gougers are out we all want to burn them at the stake then when its over we forget how sleazy they were.
I look at it this way. If gougers offer a product at a stupid price....and people buy his products at a stupid price....well.....the market is at equilibrium. If people DON'T buy his products, eventually.....if he wants to sell them, he'll lower the price. Ethical??? Hmmmm.....hard to say. It kinda depends on the product for me. Medicine???. Unethical in my view. 9mm range ammo?? Meh..... But I get why some would be upset.
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2020, 03:52 PM
markwell markwell is offline
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Go to Jackson....They've already screwed the locals there.
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2020, 04:06 PM
KyJim KyJim is offline
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I agree it is a personal decision on whether to buy extremely over priced ammo. Necessities are different. As for me, I decided last time to forgoe the over priced ammo
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2020, 06:36 PM
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I agree that necessity makes a big difference as to whether it's ethical or not. When that CEO "Pharma Bro" jacked up the price of an important drug meant to treat a rare condition by over 1000% that was purely evil, for he knew some people HAD to have that drug and he was taking advantage of the fact that his company was the only one making it.

Ammunition on the other hand, not so much. Yes people need ammo in their guns for self defense, but people buying it by the case aren't exactly using it all to prevent a home invasion.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2020, 07:59 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I agree that necessity makes a big difference as to whether it's ethical or not. When that CEO "Pharma Bro" jacked up the price of an important drug meant to treat a rare condition by over 1000% that was purely evil, for he knew some people HAD to have that drug and he was taking advantage of the fact that his company was the only one making it.

Ammunition on the other hand, not so much. Yes people need ammo in their guns for self defense, but people buying it by the case aren't exactly using it all to prevent a home invasion.



Minor point - Mylan CEO was Heather Bresch, a SHE, not a he.
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2020, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
Are you sure you're not confusing Trump with Obama? I don't remember a bit of panic buying when Trump got elected.
Don't you remember Trump was elected it was few short weeks ammo was showing up then December and January supplies took off. I know a manufacture warehouse was sitting on 40 million in ammo so why it was not in the market place we'll never know? Well after Trump we all know market demand eased up, buyers relaxed and ammo supply grew in warehouses as dealers demand lessen every year until now.
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  #41  
Old 03-22-2020, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
In times of panic businesses have three options:

1. Continue to sell at original prices, and sell out quickly. New product will no longer be sold to you at a discount so you're going to lose money.

2. Raise prices to offset increased costs of goods, get a few irate customers but still end up selling out of everything you have.

3. Raise prices a ridiculous amount, creating a lot of angry customers. You'll lose a lot of sales but will make it up on the product you actually DO sell at the inflated profit. Plus your inventory won't deplete nearly as fast so you'll never be looking at empty shelves and no product to sell anybody.

Apparently Cheaper Than Dirt has found that the third option works best for them during a buying panic. It sucks for the rest of us, but if the last time they did it had hurt them financially they wouldn't be doing it again. My local gun shop/indoor range also drastically inflated their ammo prices during the Sandy Hook scare, and while it pissed off a lot of customers they DID always have ammo on the shelves.
Cheaper Than Dirt does this every time their is a surge and raises prices some 300% - 500%. They deserve the "Dicks" Sporting Goods treatment, Dicks now pulling its Hunting Dept. in 400 + stores. We won't miss them .........
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:28 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Minor point - Mylan CEO was Heather Bresch, a SHE, not a he.
I was talking about THIS jerkoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

And it sounds like he's not alone.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #43  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:26 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by mayor View Post
Cheaper Than Dirt does this every time their is a surge and raises prices some 300% - 500%. They deserve the "Dicks" Sporting Goods treatment, Dicks now pulling its Hunting Dept. in 400 + stores. We won't miss them .........
Gun folks memories are too short. CTD has done this for 2 decades. Everyone vows "Screw those guys.... I'll never do business with them again!". Yet here they are, still in business and people addicted to cheap goods and with the moral conviction of a politician are still buying from them.
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  #44  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:49 AM
glider glider is offline
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Bad idea, there's a reason Wyoming is the least populated state in the union.
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  #45  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:54 AM
K38 K38 is online now
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Gun folks memories are too short. CTD has done this for 2 decades. Everyone vows "Screw those guys.... I'll never do business with them again!". Yet here they are, still in business and people addicted to cheap goods and with the moral conviction of a politician are still buying from them.
I never have done business with them again.
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  #46  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:40 AM
Inusuit Inusuit is offline
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Bad idea, there's a reason Wyoming is the least populated state in the union.
Yeah, stay away. We like Wyoming just the way it is. Saw a bumper sticker: Welcome to Wyoming. Consider Everyone Armed.

Just for the record, we don't consider Jackson/Teton County a part of the state.
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  #47  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:28 AM
William_Brown William_Brown is offline
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9mm ammo is so cheap that I bought in lots of 1000. So, I have more than enough.

Even in a big city in Ohio, the grocery shelves are doing better, people are getting more reasonable

Thereís a war on... so I buy 5.56 like theyíre giving it away. So Iíve got that.

.45ACP is more expensive, but I have bunches of it... probably 600 rounds, which is a lot for me.

Things are pretty calm here. I did, I must admit, load every magazine I have. Also, I keep an extra pistol and a shotgun in my Jeep when I go for things but itís just a precaution. People are pretty decent here.


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  #48  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:30 AM
William_Brown William_Brown is offline
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Iím also lucky, there are Gun show guys that sell me lots of high quality Hornady XTP new manufacture at bargain bin prices and the local outfitter has sales galore on ammo that just thump online retailers behind the ear with a sap.


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  #49  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:31 AM
William_Brown William_Brown is offline
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I just checked... I even have ammo for both my 30-06 and .308 Garands.


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  #50  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:33 AM
mdellis49 mdellis49 is offline
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It wasn't ammo, but the first prosecution for price gouging is occurring in Fresno Ca. Mr. Singh thought it would be a good idea to go to Costco and purchase bottled water and then jack the price up by 10X. If convicted he will face a possible fine of $10,000. That's a lot of bottled water. Ironically last time I checked turn on the tap and water still comes out
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