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  #1  
Old 07-03-2020, 03:26 PM
me1911 me1911 is offline
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Another novice question...

Why would you want a gun with only a trigger safety? Or, a gun with no thumb safety?
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2020, 03:36 PM
jtq jtq is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me1911 View Post
Why would you want a gun with only a trigger safety?
It's a drop safety to keep the inertia of a gun falling on the back of the slide from causing the trigger to pull.

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Or, a gun with no thumb safety?
The usual argument is it is less complicated. A revolver has no thumb safety.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2020, 03:36 PM
Levian Levian is offline
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Rapid deployment, and because some people have forgotten to disengage the thumb safety. Failing to disengage mechanical safeties has gotten people killed.

The thought process is the less time and mechanics between you drawing your pistol and putting a round in an attacker during a SHTF moment, the more your chances of coming out the other side without any new holes of your own are improved.

The trigger safety makes the gun just safe enough that it won't go off if dropped, and you shouldn't shoot yourself if practicing proper technique while drawing/holstering the weapon while reducing the risk the shooter will forget to disengage a manual safety during a self defense encounter.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2020, 04:07 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is online now
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To get me to my rifle.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2020, 04:25 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian View Post
Rapid deployment, and because some people have forgotten to disengage the thumb safety. Failing to disengage mechanical safeties has gotten people killed.

The thought process is the less time and mechanics between you drawing your pistol and putting a round in an attacker during a SHTF moment, the more your chances of coming out the other side without any new holes of your own are improved.

The trigger safety makes the gun just safe enough that it won't go off if dropped, and you shouldn't shoot yourself if practicing proper technique while drawing/holstering the weapon while reducing the risk the shooter will forget to disengage a manual safety during a self defense encounter.
While I agree as to the thought process, it is fundamentally flawed. I have yet to hear of someone "getting killed" because they failed to disengage the thumb safety on their own weapon.... if you practice "proper" technique, its a non issue.

Striker fire pistols are NOT DA revolvers- a 12# trigger pull, an inch long, and a couple inches of hammer movement are not the norm on striker fired guns....
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2020, 10:36 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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"Safety" is what is between the ears not a mechanical device - 12 safeties or no safeties 'you' decide to press the trigger with good training or not!
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2020, 10:40 PM
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian View Post
Rapid deployment, and because some people have forgotten to disengage the thumb safety. Failing to disengage mechanical safeties has gotten people killed.

The thought process is the less time and mechanics between you drawing your pistol and putting a round in an attacker during a SHTF moment, the more your chances of coming out the other side without any new holes of your own are improved.

The trigger safety makes the gun just safe enough that it won't go off if dropped, and you shouldn't shoot yourself if practicing proper technique while drawing/holstering the weapon while reducing the risk the shooter will forget to disengage a manual safety during a self defense encounter.
^^^ This sums it up perfectly. Safeties are very personal decisions. There are no right or wrong answers. Go with what you feel most comfortable with. But if you do go with a safety make sure you train and become proficient with it.
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2020, 07:20 AM
JMJ1015 JMJ1015 is offline
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I don't have an issue with striker fired guns without a safety. If you use a quality holster that covers the trigger guard it isn't an issue. One does however need to take care when holstering to make sure nothing gets hung up in the trigger guard.

With a revolver or a DA/SA pistol that doesn't have a safety one can put their thumb on the hammer when holstering. If you feel the hammer move backwards you know to stop, pull the pistol back up & see what is going on.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2020, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me1911 View Post
Why would you want a gun with only a trigger safety? Or, a gun with no thumb safety?
Guns that have these "features" are for those who don't understand 1911s and BHPs, and don't want to get trained.
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2020, 09:16 AM
Buzz45 Buzz45 is offline
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Originally Posted by me1911 View Post
Why would you want a gun with only a trigger safety? Or, a gun with no thumb safety?
I prefer having a thumb safety, but I do have several that only have the trigger safety. I don't consider the trigger safety a safety at all though. I have no qualms carrying a handgun without a thumb safety. Just have to be extra, extra careful when holstering it.
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  #11  
Old 07-04-2020, 09:43 AM
Buckeye1 Buckeye1 is offline
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Above point is the best yet. Guns are carried and handled much more than they are shot. If in a tense situation you can always take the thumb safety off beforehand. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the dingey because his glock fell out of the waistband of his sweatpants. He grabbed it as it dropped and pulled the trigger with his thumb.
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  #12  
Old 07-04-2020, 10:45 AM
Glasshalfempty Glasshalfempty is offline
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Nearly all of the answers highlight the most important point with regard to all of the mechanical safety devices found on guns. TRAINING is the key. Knowing, intimately, if you will, the design features and operating characteristics of your personal defensive weapon are the keys to safely handling and using a firearm for personal protection.

Not a glock fanboy by any stretch but own several and taught hundreds of novices to shoot them (and other striker fired modern semi autos) well and to shoot them safely. Many of the striker fired guns which do incorporate a thumb safety do so as an afterthought for marketing or specific contract sales and they are, in some cases, poorly shaped, too small or improperly placed for instinctive use without shifting the firing grip.

Modern quality manufactured weapons, carried and operated within their design limitations by trained personnel are safe. My 100% safe and reliable 191 or BHP, handled by an inexperienced shooter, is a negligent discharge- or worse- waiting to happen.

Train!
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2020, 11:00 AM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is online now
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Originally Posted by Buckeye1 View Post
Above point is the best yet. Guns are carried and handled much more than they are shot. If in a tense situation you can always take the thumb safety off beforehand. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the dingey because his glock fell out of the waistband of his sweatpants. He grabbed it as it dropped and pulled the trigger with his thumb.
We taught at my dept. If you drop your Glock, let it fall! Do NOT try to catch it! Never had a deputy shoot theirself.
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2020, 01:34 PM
JMJ1015 JMJ1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasshalfempty View Post
Nearly all of the answers highlight the most important point with regard to all of the mechanical safety devices found on guns. TRAINING is the key. Knowing, intimately, if you will, the design features and operating characteristics of your personal defensive weapon are the keys to safely handling and using a firearm for personal protection.

Not a glock fanboy by any stretch but own several and taught hundreds of novices to shoot them (and other striker fired modern semi autos) well and to shoot them safely. Many of the striker fired guns which do incorporate a thumb safety do so as an afterthought for marketing or specific contract sales and they are, in some cases, poorly shaped, too small or improperly placed for instinctive use without shifting the firing grip.

Modern quality manufactured weapons, carried and operated within their design limitations by trained personnel are safe. My 100% safe and reliable 191 or BHP, handled by an inexperienced shooter, is a negligent discharge- or worse- waiting to happen.

Train!
I Believe this is the right answer.

Also in reference to the Plaxico Buress incident. Use a proper holster. Think about what you are doing & what the consequences may be if you screw up.
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2020, 05:36 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Just remember that as originally designed , the 1905 , 1907 and 1910/1911 autos didn't have a thumb safety either.
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2020, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
Guns that have these "features" are for those who don't understand 1911s and BHPs, and don't want to get trained.
Anyone who can't figure out the safeties on a 1911 or BHP is going to be even more dangerous with a trigger-dingus only semi-auto. I cringe whenever I hear someone say a revolver or whatever is better for an untrained person. If they're that bad then they need a gun with a Master padlock behind the trigger that will keep it from firing in the first place.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:29 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
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I agree with the poster that said he didn't consider a trigger safety a real safety. Now that said I do not like a safety on my EDC. I am trying to get over it by occasionally carrying a 1911. I know everyone talks about TRAINING. However, when shooting in competition I have seen Master shooters (better than me) under the stress of competition draw, curse, and then remember to flick off the safety. If the stress of competition can do this to a "Master" shooter how about the stress of a self defense situation?
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  #18  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:35 AM
jtq jtq is online now
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Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
However, when shooting in competition I have seen Master shooters (better than me) under the stress of competition draw, curse, and then remember to flick off the safety. If the stress of competition can do this to a "Master" shooter how about the stress of a self defense situation?
I see these types of comments often. I wonder how many different categories of competition those Master shooters compete in, with how many different guns.

My guess is the typical 1911 shooter is more likely to forget to pull the trigger than work the safety as they spend more time with their thumb on the safety than they do with their finger on the trigger.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:40 AM
jtq jtq is online now
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Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
I am trying to get over it by occasionally carrying a 1911.
If your draw stroke begins like Ed Head's in this GunTalkTV video (start about the :40 mark) where you start with your thumb on the thumb safety, it is something you're less likely to forget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGxwJrrABY

I suspect lots of folks get their master grip, with their thumb along the side of the grip panel and then search for the thumb safety after the draw. That's probably the problem area.
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