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  #1  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:02 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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Question on Colt Gold cup spring

Hello. I recently traded for a Used Colt Gold cup that was made in 1996. It is in remarkably good shape with a beautiful blue color and no scratches that sometimes wind up on the frame from disassembly/resassembly. When I disassembled it, I found out why. The gun was so dirty that It appears that it had never been disassembled and reassembled. Since the barrel link pin and the link fell out of the barrel link assembly when I removed the barrel, I was concerned about the integrity of the whole thing. I decided to replace the bushing, barrel link, barrel link pin, recoil spring, spring guide, and plug. So I ordered Colt branded parts from midway. I found out that I cannot replace the pin and link without pounding on it which I do not want to do. So I will have to have my gunsmith change this out. I also noticed that the replacement recoil spring was longer than the one on my Gold cup. Now I have read that the Colt Gold Cup was supplied with two springs, a "green" one for target loads and the regular one. Upon closer examination, it appears that the only difference is the length. The "green" one is shorter for use in lower power "target" loads. Since I want to shoot regular 230 gr "ball" loads which I shoot in my Government model I would simply replace the "green" spring with the regular spring. Is all this correct or am I missing something? Thank you for your help in this matter. Ray
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:09 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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I forgot to mention that I have the green spring

Hello. I forgot to mention that I have the "green" spring in my Colt Gold cup which I want to replace. My fault.
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:20 PM
Mark Robinson Mark Robinson is offline
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You're not missing anything. If in doubt, just order several recoil springs -- they should be considered consumable parts anyway. Colt uses 16# recoil springs in their 45 Government models, some people prefer 17-18# springs. There are several sources for them online.

Plan to replace your spring every 3000 rounds or so. Maybe the firing pin spring at the same time. Main spring will usually last longer.
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:33 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Robinson View Post
You're not missing anything. If in doubt, just order several recoil springs -- they should be considered consumable parts anyway. Colt uses 16# recoil springs in their 45 Government models, some people prefer 17-18# springs. There are several sources for them online.

Plan to replace your spring every 3000 rounds or so. Maybe the firing pin spring at the same time. Main spring will usually last longer.
Thank you for your help. At the same time that I have my gunsmith replace the link and pin, I will have him replace the firing pin spring. Good idea!
Ray
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:43 PM
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RickB RickB is offline
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Springs should never be cut; if the shorter spring is shorter from use, then it is definitely time for a replacement.

If you are shooting hardball or 230gr hardball equivalent, 16# is a good, all-around recoil spring rating.
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:46 PM
1saxman 1saxman is online now
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Do not replace the link and pin. Many Colts have a loose link pin and it means nothing. The pin is captured when the gun is assembled. What you can do is stake the pin in. you will mess up the barrel fit if you do this and I wouldn't trust most 'gunsmiths' with it either.
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:11 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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I bought a nice used 1996 years ago, but it only had the 16lb spring and one mag in the box but I did get all the papers. Although the spring with the green on the end is about 14lbs and the other is about 16lbs, Colt does go by the diameter of the wire and number of coils. Springs are not expensive and folks like Wolff sell them.

An interesting picture is the brand new spring I got from Colt for a Gov. that has never been in a gun at the bottom and right above it is one that came out of my 2015 GCNM that I had just bought that had not been fired (well most likely a proof round of course) and both are 16lb springs. Interesting to see the difference in length.



The other springs are the dual Colt springs and a Wolff flat wire spring. Not important to this thread. My 1996 is a nice pistol and was the last year for the wide steel trigger. In 1997 the Gold Cup Trophy came out with the wide Aluminum trigger. On my 1996 I did change out the rubber wrap around grips for some wood stocks.

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  #8  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:25 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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what other springs should i replace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Robinson View Post
You're not missing anything. If in doubt, just order several recoil springs -- they should be considered consumable parts anyway. Colt uses 16# recoil springs in their 45 Government models, some people prefer 17-18# springs. There are several sources for them online.

Plan to replace your spring every 3000 rounds or so. Maybe the firing pin spring at the same time. Main spring will usually last longer.
Ok I will replace the firing pin spring and the mainspring. what about the hammer spring and firing pin safety block spring? Should I consider replacing those since I don't know my pistol's history? I appreciate your help! Ray
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:52 PM
JMason5067 JMason5067 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasote View Post
Ok I will replace the firing pin spring and the mainspring. what about the hammer spring and firing pin safety block spring? Should I consider replacing those since I don't know my pistol's history? I appreciate your help! Ray

Mainspring is the hammer spring, so you are good there.
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2020, 09:15 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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ok. thank you for the info

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Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
Do not replace the link and pin. Many Colts have a loose link pin and it means nothing. The pin is captured when the gun is assembled. What you can do is stake the pin in. you will mess up the barrel fit if you do this and I wouldn't trust most 'gunsmiths' with it either.
Ok thank you for the info. I probably wont do it then. Ray
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  #11  
Old 04-02-2020, 09:28 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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Nice pictures. Love the grips

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
I bought a nice used 1996 years ago, but it only had the 16lb spring and one mag in the box but I did get all the papers. Although the spring with the green on the end is about 14lbs and the other is about 16lbs, Colt does go by the diameter of the wire and number of coils. Springs are not expensive and folks like Wolff sell them.

An interesting picture is the brand new spring I got from Colt for a Gov. that has never been in a gun at the bottom and right above it is one that came out of my 2015 GCNM that I had just bought that had not been fired (well most likely a proof round of course) and both are 16lb springs. Interesting to see the difference in length.



The other springs are the dual Colt springs and a Wolff flat wire spring. Not important to this thread. My 1996 is a nice pistol and was the last year for the wide steel trigger. In 1997 the Gold Cup Trophy came out with the wide Aluminum trigger. On my 1996 I did change out the rubber wrap around grips for some wood stocks.

These pictures are nice! I love the grips. I still have the black wrap around grips on mine. That is sort of strange on the lengths of the springs. So it depends on the diameter and number of coils. My recoil springs are Colt branded OEM so they are 16 # and should work fine. I noticed that there are some references to "hammer spring" and "mainspring". Are the terms interchangeable referring to the same thing? I am a newbie to the 1911 platform having bought my first one, a Colt classic 1911 CSS .45 acp in January. Maybe you could clear that up for me. I appreciate your help very much! Ray
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2020, 09:36 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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Thank you for the clarification

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Originally Posted by JMason5067 View Post
Mainspring is the hammer spring, so you are good there.
Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it! Ray
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2020, 10:14 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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I'm not sure how just staking in the barrel link pin could possibly affect barrel fit - it is a standard operation, as far as I know, and I don't see the need to replace anything but springs on a "refresh" - the original parts are fine if not worn out. But as already noted, it is correct that, when assembled, the barrel link pin is captured anyway and cannot fall out. That's how John Moses Browning designed it - logically! CC
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:55 AM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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They're nice guns, I've a '95 in the mirror polished stainless, and it has always worked well with any ammo its been fed, although it has been "massaged" a bit.
Their are a couple of tiny parts in the fire control group that are about as easily obtained as Kryptonite.
You don't want to remove the sear pin unless its absolutely necessary.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2020, 03:17 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Yes, the original Steel Gold Cup Trigger guns have a special sear drilled for a "Sear Depressor Spring" and have a "Sear Depressor". ONLY Disassemble in a place where you won't lose small parts - like inside a clear plastic bag! (NEVER over Carpet!)
Use a Q-tip shaft for a slave pin for reassembly. CC
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2020, 04:50 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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There is a nice utube on doing the the detail strip of a Gold Cup with the steel trigger and special sear.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmjFW4i4v4

The GCNM in the utube appears to have been made in the 66-70 time frame by the way. Sadly places that used to have the sear depressor and tiny spring like Brownells do not seem to have them anymore. I also do it inside a large plastic bag by the way.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2020, 10:30 AM
deserttrans deserttrans is offline
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Yep, that is a pretty good video.
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2020, 03:44 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
I'm not sure how just staking in the barrel link pin could possibly affect barrel fit - it is a standard operation, as far as I know, and I don't see the need to replace anything but springs on a "refresh" - the original parts are fine if not worn out. But as already noted, it is correct that, when assembled, the barrel link pin is captured anyway and cannot fall out. That's how John Moses Browning designed it - logically! CC
Ok. I wont replace the link and pin. Thank You.
Ray
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2020, 04:05 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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sear pin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
They're nice guns, I've a '95 in the mirror polished stainless, and it has always worked well with any ammo its been fed, although it has been "massaged" a bit.
Their are a couple of tiny parts in the fire control group that are about as easily obtained as Kryptonite.
You don't want to remove the sear pin unless its absolutely necessary.
No, I dont want to replace the sear pin. Sounds like a lot of trouble. I am new to the nomenclature of the 1911. For Instance,I did not know that the mainspring and the hammer spring were the same. What about the firing pin safety block spring listed by brownells? Do I want to replace that? Is it known by another name? So far, I have replace the recoil spring with a Colt Brand 16lb spring and I plan the replace the mainspring and firing pin spring. Are there any others I should replace? Does the sear spring need to be replaced? I will have all these springs replaced by my gunsmith. I am a klutz. Thanks, Ray
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2020, 04:43 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Thank Wolff for the main spring being called a hammer spring or at least that is the first time I heard it called that years ago when ordering springs from Wolff. I would also replace the little spring in the plunger which in a Series 80 mechanical firing pin safety allows the firing pin to move forward. It is worth it to also probably remove the firing pin etc and take a cotton swab or something and clean the firing pin channel out. Below a series 80 firing pin, firing pin spring, Series 80 plunger, plunger spring and firing pin stop. Right now I can't remember why I took this picture years ago.

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Old 04-04-2020, 06:03 PM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasote View Post
No, I dont want to replace the sear pin. Sounds like a lot of trouble.
No, please,, perhaps I was unclear. That sear pin holds the sear, the disconnector, the lifting lever for the firing pin plunger, and those two tiny parts I was referring too.
The tiny, and hard to find/get parts are the "sear assist lever", and the "sear assist spring"
What I should have said was, "Don't remove the sear pin, because if you do, then all those parts will fall out, and it's a total PITA to get everything back together"

A vid was referenced for the procedure for working with those parts, but disassembly/reassembly is something to be avoided if at all possible.
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2020, 08:55 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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Very Helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
Thank Wolff for the main spring being called a hammer spring or at least that is the first time I heard it called that years ago when ordering springs from Wolff. I would also replace the little spring in the plunger which in a Series 80 mechanical firing pin safety allows the firing pin to move forward. It is worth it to also probably remove the firing pin etc and take a cotton swab or something and clean the firing pin channel out. Below a series 80 firing pin, firing pin spring, Series 80 plunger, plunger spring and firing pin stop. Right now I can't remember why I took this picture years ago.

Thank you. that was very helpful! Ray
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2020, 08:59 PM
pasote pasote is offline
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thank you

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Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
No, please,, perhaps I was unclear. That sear pin holds the sear, the disconnector, the lifting lever for the firing pin plunger, and those two tiny parts I was referring too.
The tiny, and hard to find/get parts are the "sear assist lever", and the "sear assist spring"
What I should have said was, "Don't remove the sear pin, because if you do, then all those parts will fall out, and it's a total PITA to get everything back together"

A vid was referenced for the procedure for working with those parts, but disassembly/reassembly is something to be avoided if at all possible.
Thank you! I will avoid the PITA at all costs! Ray
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