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  #1  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:42 PM
flashhole flashhole is offline
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1911 vs. Beretta 96A1

I have to confess I purchased my Beretta 96 (40 S&W) before I purchased my Springfield 1911 Mil Spec (45 ACP), my Iver Johnson 1911 Thrasher (45 ACP) and my Kimber Micro 9 (9mm) that Kimber puts in the 1911 bucket.

I like all the 1911's but the Beretta out-shoots them.

I have the Thrasher, the Micro 9 and a nice S&W snubby 38 Special in my carry rotation. All are easy to carry. The Thrasher is carried in an OWB cross-draw holster. The others are IWB. All are comfortable.

Anyone who owns both a Beretta and a 1911 care to share their opinion?
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:01 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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I have a Wilson 92G, it doesn't come remotely close to my CQB full-size 9mm in accuracy or speed it ease of carry. Great gun don't get me wrong but it's outclassed completely aside from mag size

I also have a A3 and centurion (old one) and an iNox and the clock doesn't lie, the Wilson 92G is the best of the group and it loses solidly to my 9mm 1911 and my comped or optics .45s and still barely loses to normal ones in my hands
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:04 PM
ronbwolf ronbwolf is offline
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Lert me see, Porsche 911 Targa vs. Volkswagon Beetle.
Only Beretta I wsnt is a stainless model, so it won't rust while holding bait down!

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  #4  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:04 PM
DaveVK DaveVK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole View Post
I have to confess I purchased my Beretta 96 (40 S&W) before I purchased my Springfield 1911 Mil Spec (45 ACP), my Iver Johnson 1911 Thrasher (45 ACP) and my Kimber Micro 9 (9mm) that Kimber puts in the 1911 bucket.

I like all the 1911's but the Beretta out-shoots them.

I have the Thrasher, the Micro 9 and a nice S&W snubby 38 Special in my carry rotation. All are easy to carry. The Thrasher is carried in an OWB cross-draw holster. The others are IWB. All are comfortable.

Anyone who owns both a Beretta and a 1911 care to share their opinion?
My Beretta 96A1 is a great shooter and in .40 stands at the ready with a 15 round extended mag and a mounted TRL1 from Streamlight. It is a a great shooter with 165 grain or with a barrel swap, 124 gr (and maybe more) 9mm!

The 1911s, 96A1 and CZ75 variants seem to work for me!
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:17 PM
f1racefan f1racefan is online now
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I had a Beretta 92A1 that was a tack driver. It was super tight at lock up. However, once I bought my first 1911 for a defensive pistol match, there was no looking back. The 92A1 was sold to a friend and now I have an STI2011, a couple of Dan Wessons and a Kimber Micro 9. For me, I hate how far back in the grip the SA trigger is on most Berettas. I love how you can change trigger blades on a 1911 to put the break at whatever finger position you want. For me, the 1911 ergonomics are fantastic.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:08 PM
Proffer Proffer is offline
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Had a 92a1. Gave it to my brother. Replaced it with an m9. Picked up a 96 back when 40 was still a "thing." Nice gun. Have 7 or so various 1911s. They are fun to play with...but i have to admit that if, God forbid, i could only have "one"...i'd go with the m9. The 96 shoots just as well....but the caliber is an issue. But it's strictly a utilitarian choice. The best shooting pistol i own is a DW. If the ninnies declared i could only have less than 10 rounds...I'd keep that.
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:11 PM
KAS300 KAS300 is offline
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I have a 92FS. I like it quite a bit. Enough that I bought an M9A3 recently. Do I like it more than a 1911? I enjoy shooting a 1911 more and I typically shoot a 1911 better. For carry? Who cares I'd pick a Glock over either.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:32 PM
Jason D Jason D is offline
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I'm actually not surprised.

I grew up shooting 1911s and revolvers. Naturally I shoot them the best, and really have to work at other guns to shoot them well. My first introduction to the Beretta did not go well. My 25 and 50 yard groups looked like a shotgun patterns, but the more I shot them, the tighter the groups got.

I suspect you shoot the Beretta better because it was what you knew and were comfortable with. If you work with the 1911s, I suspect that how you shoot them will improve greatly.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2020, 08:17 AM
jtq jtq is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole View Post
Anyone who owns both a Beretta and a 1911 care to share their opinion?
Here's Bill Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scz1uWl21bM
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:16 AM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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The only Beretta I'm a fan of is the 21, a nifty little .22lr.
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:31 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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I have a 92F and a slew of 1911s. Saying the Beretta outshoots the 1911s means what? Accuracy? Ergonomics? Size and weight? I'm not sure what the OP means. But no matter what, the double-then-single action of the Beretta can't be as good as the trigger action of a 1911.
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:32 AM
gumbee gumbee is online now
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I own a LBCC and a Langdon Tactical optimized 92fs. Both excellent guns in every way, carry the 92 but for home defense/range it's the Baer.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2020, 01:16 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole View Post
.
Anyone who owns both a Beretta and a 1911 care to share their opinion?
I used to own an Italian made 92FS and an American made M9. Also owned several 1911s (Colts, Kimbers, Springfields).

I like both style of pistols. The Berettas were reliable and smooth from the box. Money became tight, I had to let go several of my guns. Both Berettas are gone now, retained a few 1911s (Colt 1991, Kimber Custom II, and a Rock Island Pro Match Ultra).

I prefer the slim profile and trigger pull of the 1911s.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:01 PM
mk70ss mk70ss is offline
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The discussion is lacking one point of view regarding these two types of pistols. What is the intended use for them. If I am serving in law enforcement (I am a 21 LEO veteran) or in a military capacity, I would take the Beretta hands down. More rounds in the gun, less mags to carry, because they hold twice as much ammo, and lets face it, most out of the box Beretta 92/96’s just work.

On the range or in my nightstand, the 1911 platform wins out.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:47 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Wilson combat has been partnering with Beretta for some time now.

Bill Wilson - and the gun industry - are thriving on the 9MM Fad, it is a real shot in the arm for them - it sells new guns to people who have safes full and don't actually need any more than they already have, just so they can see themselves as "keeping up with the (younger) Jones".

Bill is far sighted in realizing that the next generation of shooters are being raised on action movies (with unending numbers of shots fired) and the concept of 9MM High Capacity and is already on top of that Marketing curve, catering to both markets. He is a Smart Businessman, and I recognize him for always having been one.

You will note that he lead off first with showing several 1911s (which are still his bread and butter in sales/economically) - just moving them to 9MM to ease into the fad. Like many, he is hiding behind the "9MM = .45, All calibers work the same" nonsense from the FBI's accountant and lawyer brigade. And many older shooters are starting to have trouble with recoil (shot their wrists out), so the 9MM appeals to a few in that category. I find it interesting that his video felt almost apologetic and was obviously 1911 heavy - as if he knew he was just engaged in marketing, (and not necessarily giving his best advice) - and did not want to upset his existing 1911 customer base. If he was a true 9MM/Beretta convert, well, just stop making 1911s, Bill. CC
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:02 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk70ss View Post
The discussion is lacking one point of view regarding these two types of pistols. What is the intended use for them. If I am serving in law enforcement (I am a 21 LEO veteran) or in a military capacity, I would take the Beretta hands down. More rounds in the gun, less mags to carry, because they hold twice as much ammo, and lets face it, most out of the box Beretta 92/96’s just work.

On the range or in my nightstand, the 1911 platform wins out.
2011s exist as do ultra reliable 1911s
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:04 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Wilson combat has been partnering with Beretta for some time now.

Bill Wilson - and the gun industry - are thriving on the 9MM Fad, it is a real shot in the arm for them - it sells new guns to people who have safes full and don't actually need any more than they already have, just so they can see themselves as "keeping up with the (younger) Jones".

Bill is far sighted in realizing that the next generation of shooters are being raised on action movies (with unending numbers of shots fired) and the concept of 9MM High Capacity and is already on top of that Marketing curve, catering to both markets. He is a Smart Businessman, and I recognize him for always having been one.

You will note that he lead off first with showing several 1911s (which are still his bread and butter in sales/economically) - just moving them to 9MM to ease into the fad. Like many, he is hiding behind the "9MM = .45, All calibers work the same" nonsense from the FBI's accountant and lawyer brigade. And many older shooters are starting to have trouble with recoil (shot their wrists out), so the 9MM appeals to a few in that category. I find it interesting that his video felt almost apologetic and was obviously 1911 heavy - as if he knew he was just engaged in marketing, (and not necessarily giving his best advice) - and did not want to upset his existing 1911 customer base. If he was a true 9MM/Beretta convert, well, just stop making 1911s, Bill. CC
Wilson's best performing guns are 1911s and the most reliable are .45s, the other offerings don't do as well performance wise
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:11 PM
mk70ss mk70ss is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Wilson's best performing guns are 1911s and the most reliable are .45s, the other offerings don't do as well performance wise
Strictly a biased opinion. If you ran a Wilson Beretta side by side with a Wilson 1911, the result would be about even. Show me your evidence to back up your statement.
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  #19  
Old 03-30-2020, 05:40 PM
flashhole flashhole is offline
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"The Beretta out shoots them."

Good comments.

Accuracy has been consistently better at the range as has reliability. It's also easier to take down for cleaning.

My 1911s are all unmodified factory configurations. I did replace the grips on the Beretta with G-10 thin grips and the hammer spring was swapped out.

I recently started handloading for the 45s. That may make some difference.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:18 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by mk70ss View Post
Strictly a biased opinion. If you ran a Wilson Beretta side by side with a Wilson 1911, the result would be about even. Show me your evidence to back up your statement.
LOL! I have done so and own both, there is literally a 30% longer overall time using the 92G in most drills

I am one of the least biased people here and also one who pushes gear very hard and shares what does what performance wise. You will NEVER see a 92 outrun a open class 1911/2011 or even opticomp guns and really even 9mm 1911s just flat outshoot the 92 type guns. Accuracy is a wash practically speaking since I can standing freehand both guns standing at 100 yards on a 12 inch plate no issues at all but the 1911s mechanically produce better groups when bagged and if the 1911 is using optics its really no contest at all for how much effort it takes to make accurate shots. I have tried for years to replace the 1911 as my carry weapon but every single time I put a new option on the clock it fails to beat the 1911 and the ones that can beat it are too large for me to perfectly conceal like say my CZs.....but even those lose to my fullsize 9mm Wilson in situations that don't exceed 11 rounds needed and even in situations I need to reload it still can beat stuff like my Comped/Optic equipped ZEV Z19 with it's 23 round mag. People on this forum have shot with me in person and can say that I have done the above test and also the same one vs my carry gun to see how it plays out in a IDPA style stage and that the comped 1911 won.

The 92 is a fine gun but not anywhere in contention in terms of performance vs other options when it comes down to it. No optics, no comps, not truly compact options, no calibers other than 9mm and .40, not as much durability, and not as accurate mechanically unless you get a AMU gun and use exactly the right ammo. If you are looking or the best in terms of performance, reliability, durability, versatility, modern options that tangibly and totally increase the capability of a gun, then the 92 series simply doesn't compete with the Glock, CZ, 1911/2011 if you remove cost from the equation. If you put in a price limit of $1500 the Glock and CZ will best it easily and a 1911 in 9mm with light custom work will also beat it, cost constraint removed and it's screwed vs a duty type optics equipped modern gun that will likely also have a comp and access to the plethora of benifits that provides.

I don't have bias, I use what works best for what I am trying to do and have guns for each sub role no matter how small, a handgun for each class of IDPA and USPSA that are the best for the job, guns for each size class of carry gun that shoot the best and most consistently in the class, and retention type guns and holster to use with other gear. Everything is selected for how well it performs not for any cost or brand/type concerns and everything gets a fair try of 1500 rounds for me to get use to them and prove reliability and then lots of drills with the new candidate to see how the average of 20 runs each drill comes out to. If it beats the option I had been using in that roll it replaces my old gun unless an issue comes up like on my NHC Opticomp that was supposed to replace my Wilson carry comp but kept breaking and having reliability issues and being slight beat (5%) on the clock. I LOVE the gun and I think its beautiful and super nice but it will never replace my Wilson unless it can take the same level of use and be as reliable and outperform it.
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Last edited by Striker2237; 03-30-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:23 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole View Post
"The Beretta out shoots them."

Good comments.

Accuracy has been consistently better at the range as has reliability. It's also easier to take down for cleaning.

My 1911s are all unmodified factory configurations. I did replace the grips on the Beretta with G-10 thin grips and the hammer spring was swapped out.

I recently started handloading for the 45s. That may make some difference.
I can detail strip my carry 1911 down to bare frame sans ejector in 58 seconds with only a punch, you can't do that with any 92 type gun. Witnessed by 5 other members on this forum in person.

Take your 92 to 100 yards and see how it does vs a 1911
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2020, 08:23 PM
bovw bovw is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I can detail strip my carry 1911 down to bare frame sans ejector in 58 seconds with only a punch, you can't do that with any 92 type gun. Witnessed by 5 other members on this forum in person.

Take your 92 to 100 yards and see how it does vs a 1911


Individual shooters will vary. In 1994, Air Force Security Forces Officer Andy Brown killed an active shooter at 70 yards with his issue M9 at Fairchild AFB. Yes not 100 yards, but effective.


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Old 03-30-2020, 08:43 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by bovw View Post
Individual shooters will vary. In 1994, Air Force Security Forces Officer Andy Brown killed an active shooter at 70 yards with his issue M9 at Fairchild AFB. Yes not 100 yards, but effective.


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Yes but can you hand a novice a 92 and have them hitting every time? I can easily hand a relative novice a RMR 1911 or CZ and they will hit a plate every time at 50 yards, just because someone can make something work doesn't mean it's easy to do or effective.

Ease of pulling off actions with equipment is a real consideration and some individuals skill limit prevents them from ever attaining certain benchmarks unless they use better gear.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:02 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bovw View Post
Individual shooters will vary. In 1994, Air Force Security Forces Officer Andy Brown killed an active shooter at 70 yards with his issue M9 at Fairchild AFB. Yes not 100 yards, but effective.


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Yes but can you hand a novice a 92 and have them hitting every time? I can easily hand a relative novice a RMR 1911 or CZ and they will hit a plate every time at 50 yards, just because someone can make something work doesn't mean it's easy to do or effective.

Ease of pulling off actions with equipment is a real consideration and some individuals skill limit prevents them from ever attaining certain benchmarks unless they use better gear.
Must be a helluva big a$$ plate......
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:13 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Must be a helluva big a$$ plate......
12 inch, you ever use a CZ Czechmate? It is very easy to hit at that range with that gun, I can casually do it one handed quite rapidly

You can do the same with other advanced guns with little effort, the 92 is not among these guns.
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