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  #1  
Old 10-26-2015, 12:14 AM
fistful fistful is offline
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Hollow-point test data from Lucky Gunner

The Lucky Gunner has done some gelatin testing, and put together a table of their results from various loads of common auto-loader calibers. I don't know if this will be anything new, but I figure more data is always good.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...c-tests/#45ACP
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2015, 07:25 PM
msjdgman msjdgman is offline
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Saw this last week on another forum. Lots of interesting information.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2015, 02:21 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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I think this one is worth being left as a "sticky" for awhile.
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:38 AM
fistful fistful is offline
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You mean, one of my threads is a sticky on 1911forum.com?

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  #5  
Old 10-27-2015, 01:53 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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It's great information but keep in mind that the results they got were from specific test guns.

.380 ACP - Glock 42
9mm - M&P9C
.40 S&W - Glock 27
.45 ACP - Kahr CW45

Using a gun with a different barrel length could mean the difference between fuller expansion and less penetration and vice-versa or a combination of both. For example, the Kahr CW45 has a 3.6 in barrel and if you have a 5" barrel your results could be different.

Anyhow, it's great information. I'm happy to see the Golden Saber 185 +P performed the way it did with the 3.6 inch barrel.
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  #6  
Old 10-28-2015, 04:44 PM
motorsporting motorsporting is offline
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Is it reasonable to expect if a bullet expanded in a shorter barrel it will also likely expand in a longer barrel, but not the opposite? In other words, if a bullet expanded in a 5" barrel it should also in a shorter barrel? I'm asking because I currently use Hornady Critical Duty 135g in my 9mm's (Shield up to 5" M&P), but I am uncomfortable with how this test shows them not expanding. I have Federal HST 147g also, but I liked, at least according to Hornady, how they plastic/rubber pellet was supposed to ensure expansion through hard AND soft material. I'm not convinced now ... I feel like I should switch to the HST 147 if it expands in short and long barrels equally well.
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2015, 05:20 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorsporting View Post
Is it reasonable to expect if a bullet expanded in a shorter barrel it will also likely expand in a longer barrel, but not the opposite? In other words, if a bullet expanded in a 5" barrel it should also in a shorter barrel? I'm asking because I currently use Hornady Critical Duty 135g in my 9mm's (Shield up to 5" M&P), but I am uncomfortable with how this test shows them not expanding. I have Federal HST 147g also, but I liked, at least according to Hornady, how they plastic/rubber pellet was supposed to ensure expansion through hard AND soft material. I'm not convinced now ... I feel like I should switch to the HST 147 if it expands in short and long barrels equally well.
I think the bullet design is going to play a role as well. I would like to see more real life testing with a variety of barrel lengths for each.

But yes, there were some serious disappointment, The Barnes all copper 185 TAC-XPD +P in .45 ACP was very disappointing considering how expensive that round is and how inconsistent those petals opened.

Some of the bullets that failed to expand penetrated deeper, yet in theory, if it had higher terminal velocity, and opened up more, the penetration may be less since the expanded hollow point would be dumping more energy into the tissue. The only way to know for certain is to do more tests.

A website, "Ballistics by the Inch" testing on barrel length but the data may be outdated and it does not have gel test or expansion test. They did testing with muzzle velocity using a chronograph alone and the ammunition is based on what was available back in approx. 2008.

The nice thing is they used real guns and also had a firearm like a Contender (I don't know the exact make and model) with interchangeable chambers and barrels. The barrels started at 16 inches and were cut in increments of 1 inch. Each 1 inch increment had three test rounds fired.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

These types of test can cost lots of money.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2015, 06:08 PM
La Grenouille La Grenouille is offline
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Glad I have a small stash of .45 HST +P!

Wonder how the 185 Barnes would do in a hotter load like Buffalo Bore's?
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2015, 09:15 AM
Taz575 Taz575 is offline
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Most people aren't carrying full size 5" barrels anymore, which is why they did this test with the more common 3.5" barrel length to see how ammo does in the shorter barrels. Longer barrel usually means more velocity, more expansion and less penetration normally. Lots of ammo isn't expanding very well with the short barrels. It is more difficult to find ammo testing with full size guns like a 5" 1911, full size Beretta 92, etc.

Is the M&P a polygon rifled barrel like the Glock is? I think that is supposed to add some extra velocity/efficiency to the shorter barrels, which can skew the test. If you look at reviews on YouTube with other short barrel guns, you can compare the results. These guys used a different test than the 4 layers of denim that is the standard for testing, too, which may affect how the rounds performed.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2015, 12:37 PM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
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Some of the .45 ammo did good, and others didn't even expand much if any.

I'd also like to see some 5'' barreled .45's get tested as well.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2015, 01:32 PM
La Grenouille La Grenouille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz575 View Post
Is the M&P a polygon rifled barrel like the Glock is?
No, M&Ps use traditional land-and-groove rifling.
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2015, 03:06 PM
Taz575 Taz575 is offline
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I couldn't remember about the M&P, thanks! There is some gel testing with 5" .45 done on Youtube. I watch gel video's when I got bored at work

Seems like 124 HST in 9mm and 230gr HST in 45 ACP will be my go to rounds with 124+p and 230gr Gold Dots as a second choice (easier to find locally)! Shortest 9mm I have is my ECO 9mm, shortest .45 barrel is my VBOB and hopefully Guardian!
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:43 PM
Lmnopotts Lmnopotts is offline
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What I took from this is that Remington's "Ultimate Defense" is not a marketing packaging update to the Golden Sabers. Hardly any expansion causing over penetration (at least for what I'm looking for).

I did finally find some bonded Golden Sabers online and bought a few boxes. I'll probably keep a few boxes of my Gold Dots. Lower on the penetration side but great expansion on the 5 rounds fired.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2015, 08:53 PM
Silverquick Silverquick is offline
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Actually these are best of the best...

Generally in .45 Caliber they will expand upwards of a full inch. generally its .89 to .95 from the various ones I've seen.

Federal HST is extreme expansion especially in .45 Caliber. it can expand upwards of the diameter of a shotgun slug... its pretty extreme.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2016, 04:03 PM
Hank in Arkansa Hank in Arkansa is offline
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I just tried a small test with 2 top rated loads, and was a bit surprised at the result. I had on hand a few 5 gallon poly bottles designed for hazmat liquids. The have very thick walls (approx. 1/8"+) made of very tough plastic. I filled some with water and shot 4 rounds total. Here's bullets I recovered:
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The 2 leftmost were Critical Duty 9mm 135gr +P fired from a Glock26. Notice no expansion, but they penetrated 13+ inches of water. One bounced off the backup poly bottle, while the other one penetrated it. The fully expanded bullet (same load) was fired from a 16" carbine. It did not exit the 1st poly bottle. The bullet on the right is a Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr +P; it was fired from the Glock26. It penetrated 13+ inches of water and both sides of a poly bottle. It then lodged in the first wall of the backup poly bottle. Also, no expansion. I know this is not any kind of comprehensive test, and the test medium is kind of unique. However, makes me think the short barrel of the Glock26 makes expansion iffy, but penetration is sure there. If I had to pick a trait for a bullet, I like penetration first, with expansion as secondary. I'd love to do a lot more testing, but ammo is expensive and I have a limited supply of these bottles. Anyhow, not sure what this water test proves anyway.
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2016, 04:42 PM
caseyoz caseyoz is offline
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Federal 45acp HST 230 grain and 9mm HST 147

I really dig the test Lucky Gunner did. I bought quite a few different boxes for my 9mm and 45acp. I ran functionality and accuracy test on them. The federal HST 45 230 grain and the HST 147 grain ran superb with no fails and very accurate. My outdoor gun range has an elevated platform so I did a test with the 45 HST 230 grain. Used a layer of leather and 3 layers of denim from Wally Worlds craft section. Duct taped them over a 55 drum of water and shot from 10' above it. I hope my attachment shows up.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2016, 09:44 AM
BadLuck BadLuck is offline
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Maybe I'm waaay behind on things since I busted this leg, but someone posted @ the new Fed 9mm load and sure wished they'd come out with a 45 in it......the G2 230 gr.HP.. I guess that's old news now that they did ? When I typed Fed, I meant that the FBI had switched to the speer 9mm G2 round. There was a contract with Speer for the G2 in a 230 gr. HP...........Gold Dot, of course. Has anyone managed to get their hands on a magfull and see what they do?

Last edited by BadLuck; 08-07-2016 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Miss-Comm'd
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2016, 09:13 PM
wendell the nut wendell the nut is offline
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They added some more ammo to the ballistic testing on 8-4-16 if anyone is interested. I like the expansion on the Ranger T 230 grain 45
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2016, 09:48 PM
chuckscap chuckscap is offline
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Big thanks to Lucky Gunner! Question though, I shoot the 230g bonded Golden Sabers in my Springfield Pro, and I wonder why they don't make a +P version? Based on the expansion numbers it seems like they would benefit from a bit more speed.
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  #20  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:13 PM
Smokey613 Smokey613 is offline
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I found another site that also has some good testing on various calibers.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410
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  #21  
Old 11-25-2016, 09:29 PM
RutnNStrutn RutnNStrutn is offline
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Good info!! Thanks for sharing Fistful!!
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2016, 10:44 PM
twkd2 twkd2 is offline
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Another defense ammo choice

Underwood 90 Grain Xtreme Defender. Military Arms Channel has a great video on this and all the reviews I've seen look very positive. It's my new carry ammo of choice.

Best,

David
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:15 PM
Silverquick Silverquick is offline
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I did notice the Federal HST in 230gr is a little low.

Most sites including YouTube generally have that one expanding .87 to .98 of an inch.
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  #24  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:17 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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For those interested, their results a month back for popular 10mm offerings....

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10m...tic-gel-tests/

While geared toward people shooting, the deep penetrating, non expanding options may have some large predators defensive applications....
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:36 AM
polish_bear_65 polish_bear_65 is offline
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That is some food for thought. Thanks.
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