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  #26  
Old 08-25-2015, 03:32 PM
rick9748 rick9748 is offline
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What ammo do you carry

On a daily basis what 9 mm & 45 ACP ammo do you carry and why?Just like to hear some ideas and reasons.There is so much stuff [ammo] out there it is hard to cut through the bull.
Thanks
Rick
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2015, 03:45 PM
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
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The general (medical) concensis is that handgun rounds are roughly equal when they expand, hit vitals, and penetrate minimum of 12".

Round nosed ball does not do as much damage as a flat face.

All handgun rounds are poor choices over a rifle.

For your choices, there are a lot of good designs and data. Pretty much any modern hollow point design will work well, as outlined in the recommended defense and duty loads sticky.

Ranger, HST, Gold Dot, and bonded Golden Saber are de facto standards for law enforcement, because they work.

Critical duty, Barnes TacXP and similar show good results in hunting, but are not popular duty loads.
Frangible/fragmenting anything sucks and is a waste of money.

Flat nosed SWC or FMJ-FP Work better than ball, but don't make as nasty or wide a wound as a hollow point, but will penetrate far deeper, if that's your concern.
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2015, 09:08 PM
AFshirt AFshirt is offline
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I like doc Roberts information. Hit the spine of you want them to stop right now. His ballistic data shows all popular handgun rounds to penetrate almost equally. A shot to the aorta is fatal but the guy will still live a minute or so. A shot to to the spine regardless of caliber will drop a person
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2015, 09:09 PM
AFshirt AFshirt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick9748 View Post
On a daily basis what 9 mm & 45 ACP ammo do you carry and why?Just like to hear some ideas and reasons.There is so much stuff [ammo] out there it is hard to cut through the bull.
Thanks
Rick
Under recommendation of Hornady 135g plus p in my g19 and 124g critical defense in my g43.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2016, 03:02 PM
Mark Shadow Mark Shadow is offline
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I have investigated two law enforcement related shootings recently.

Shooting one was .40 Winchester SXT. Upper left front chest to lower left chest near the center line. Bullet exited and expanded but not recovered. Two officers had to physically restrain the subject while two gave medical treatment. Subject highly resistant for about four minutes. Alert for about eight minutes. Lost alertness when EMS arrived. Alive upon arrival at level 1 trauma center. Died on the table. As a note the subject fired two rounds from a .22 revolver at the officer. Misses.

Loss of blood from vessels in the lung. No major heart plumbing hit.

Second shooting was gang related. 5.56 round (Wolf FMJ). Shot in a hallway at about 15 feet. Near center of chest front entry, exited near shoulder blade. Subject ran up two flights of stairs, out an door and ran through apartment complex for about 100 yards before dropping. Was dead upon my arrival.

In both those instances, the subjects were "dead men walking." However, if they were in a mind set to continue the fight both had ample mental function for a period of time to do so.

On average I have responded to about 10-15 shootings ( a bunch self-inflicted) a year for many years. Only truly "one shot stops" I believe are hits to the central nervous system. Even then there are exceptions. One subject did a poor job of shooting himself in the head with a .45 ACP. He hit his brain, but likely got the music lessons part of his brain. He was wobbly when we got there, then expired a few minutes later.

As a result of my observations, I practice double taps a lot, and Mozambique (but realistically under stress a tough shot). My theory is that more holes are better. No caliber argument meant to be started but likely bigger holes are better. 9mm-.40-.45ACP are all "equally bad" when confronting men.

FWIW in 26 years of service I have never shot a human. Deer, deer and more deer, and one door knob.
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  #31  
Old 02-04-2016, 03:04 PM
Mark Shadow Mark Shadow is offline
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Oh and I forgot to add, never forget about your own personal mind set. Col Cooper had some good ideas on that.
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  #32  
Old 02-04-2016, 03:38 PM
drail drail is offline
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I wish they had filmed the Army Ordnance tests that were done when they decided the "minimum" effective handgun caliber had to be at least .45. They shot live cows and hanging human cadavers. Of course you couldn't put it on Youtube.
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  #33  
Old 02-23-2016, 12:53 PM
me1911 me1911 is offline
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"[...The only certainty in an equation with so many variables is unpredictability.]"


I like this. I think it is especially relevant to gunshot wounds and firearms ballistics. There are just so many variables to consider. The only thing that bothers me about the doctor's lecture is he is working with such a small N. He is using a minuscule number of gunshot wounds (in his lecture) to arrive at a broad generalization. I'm not disagreeing with him. There is no way one can make ANY generalizations based on such a small sample.

I will have to say I generally believe FMJ will penetrate more and HP will usually do more local damage. They both do damage. HPs do their damage more proximal (and radially) to the entrance wound while the FMJ does so more distally from the entrance as it travels further through the body. Total wound VOLUME might be a more accurate way to assess total wound cavitation and damage...I really don't know. Like everything else, it's just a theory. But I was left with the impression that the doctor believes bullets rarely travel fully through the body. It would surprise me if that's the case, especially with FMJ. OTOH, he's a part of the emergency treatment team in a major hospital and likely sees a lot of firearms trauma. More than I ever will...I hope.


Tom

Last edited by me1911; 02-23-2016 at 01:15 PM.
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  #34  
Old 02-23-2016, 01:49 PM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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Well, DASH IT ALL! NOW I must go in search of a CANIK 55 C100 in .40 S&W! Oh, the HORROR, OH, the TRIBULATION of buying a NEW PISTOL!
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  #35  
Old 02-23-2016, 02:13 PM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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Quote:
Deer, deer and more deer, and one door knob.
LMAO! That's FUNNY!

In my youth, I once bagged a Boone & Crockett trophy-grade mirror in my house, during drawing practice to work on my form. Managed to get it replaced before anyone whose opinion mattered was aware of it, but thank GOD my DOG couldn't talk.
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2016, 03:59 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maromero View Post
Well I'm dumbfounded. Heavy bullets for me from now on. I will stick with 147s and 230s and maybe throw several FMJ per magazine too.

Works well - as long as you have enough barrel to get the up to speed.
But that's the other side of the coin.
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  #37  
Old 05-10-2016, 04:40 PM
OsnolaKinnard OsnolaKinnard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick9748 View Post
On a daily basis what 9 mm & 45 ACP ammo do you carry and why?Just like to hear some ideas and reasons.There is so much stuff [ammo] out there it is hard to cut through the bull.
Thanks
Rick
Currently carry a VP9 with Winchester Ranger 147 gr. bonded JHP.

my G23 is loaded with Winchester Ranger 180 gr bonded JHP.

My 1911 will be loaded with Winchester 230 grain Ranger T.
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  #38  
Old 05-12-2016, 09:19 PM
jeffbird jeffbird is offline
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Here is a link to some interesting testing:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/

Here is the ultimate conclusion:

Once you find a load that works, whatever you decide, try to keep all of this in perspective. Choice of caliber and bullet are not the most important aspects of successful self-defense. Awareness, proper mindset, marksmanship, and discernment of when to use your firearm are generally far more critical to your survival than choice of gear. Having said that, knowing your carry ammo works not only provides peace of mind, there’s a chance that choosing a solid defensive load could be the one factor that tips the scales in your favor in a fight for your life.

Last edited by jeffbird; 05-12-2016 at 09:24 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:22 AM
Kilibreaux Kilibreaux is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corny357 View Post
I have noticed that many of the pistol shootings over in the sandbox allwoed people to run away even when shot as evidenced by this presentation. I will say though most times .45 shots didnt run far or went able to run. I didnt notice a difference between using fmj or HP there at least.
The 9mm and .45 ACP in Mil-spec are essentially 350-375 lb-ft of KE which is not much at all when compared to rounds generally regarded as suitable for taking deer-size game (human size).

Military bullets are optimized for reliable feeding, penetration, and minimal tissue destruction by action of the bullet, which is why, round nose slugs as standard handgun velocities tend to do little in the way of "stopping" immediately unless the CNS is impacted.

Bullets traveling at subsonic and transonic speeds tend to do little in the way of secondary damage, especially if round nosed.

As velocity doubles, kinetic energy quadruples, which is to say that even small increases in velocity are more efficient in causing damage than increases in mass, or size.

As someone who worked in ER and ICU for many years, I've seen countless GSW's and low-powered handgun rounds in the .38spl-.45ACP spectrum are not generally destructive of tissue beyond the primary wound channel.

So-called "magnum" cartridges that push bullets above 1,300 fps start to cause secondary effects due to transference of the supersonic shock wave. This is the rationale used by early 20th century bullet designers, most notably Elmer Keith who codified the "semi-wadcutter" design pushed at velocities above 1,400 fps. Such bullets, as such speeds, tend to create significant secondary effects.

It is not as simple as saying "hangun" versus "rifle" considering so many handguns produce "rifle" power. The S&W .500 Magnum is capable of delivering in excess of 2,500 lb-ft of KE, and doing so with a relatively huge, one ounce slug, half and inch in diameter traveling at a mere 1,600 fps. Such a round will create far MORE tissue destruction than will a .308 rifle due to the extremely large diameter, blunt-nose slug, yet what must NOT be ignored is the kinetic energy being produced, because THAT is indeed the final "predictor" of terminal effectiveness.

Until the recent period, all who studied ballistics learned and understood the concept of kinetic energy, yet in recent years it seems many who lack a formal understanding of ballistics presume the diameter of a round relates to its "power," though such is not the case.

The .44 Magnum delivers around 1,000 lb-ft of KE in a .429" bullet, which, if either SWC shaped or expanding, caused massive tissue destruction in close-range situations...wounding that the 350 lb-ft KE .45 ACP cannot even come close to matching. The smaller .357 Magnum, in proper magnum loads can exceed 700-800 or more lb-ft of KE, and even though the slug is smaller in diameter, if it's weight is appropriate for the target, terminal impact can be quite explosive. The 10mm, in proper loadings exceeds 800 lb-ft of KE, with velocities well into the "magnum" range, and thus produces explosive tissue results at close range.

The diminutive 5.56mm M193 only weighs 55 grains, yet, upon impact at close range where a significant amount of its KINETIC energy is dumped through tumbling and fragmentation, approximately 1,200 lb-ft of KE are dispersed into the target...hence a high probability of "one shot stops" assuming no body armor has depleted the round's effectiveness.

If you want to see an example of the ".45 ACP" that causes explosive terminal effect, then look at the .460 Rowland. This is a lengthened, double-pressure load that is capable of causing the complete destruction of a human head by explosion at close range. It can deliver in excess of 1,200 lb-ft of KE at speeds in excess of 1,700 fps...it is NOT by any means just a hopped up .45 ACP. The "ACP" was left in the dust about 850 lb-ft of KE ago!

In many years of hunting and killing game animals, what I have noted is that produce extreme velocities and kinetic energies, animals drop...so too do people. Cartridges that are MARGINAL for the application result in animals (or people) still on their feet and seemingly unaffected until natural body homeostatic processes kick in to "remind them" they need treatment.

In many years as an ER and ICU Nurse I noted the poor terminal performance of the currently popular compliment of calibers.....38 spl, 9mm, .45 ACP. UNLESS they hit the CNS they do not result in "instant incapacitation." UNLESS they hit a major artery, they DO NOT cause a rapid onset of "sit down" on the part of the person hit. People have WALKED into my ER with GSW up to and including the .45 ACP...walked....in, and the way we discovered they had been shot by a .45 ACP was on xray where the bullet was revealed.

As an ICU Nurse, AFTER having had a patient who came in with a bullet hole directly through the bridge of his nose, that exited the occipital aspect of the skull, off-center to the vertebral column and had NO ILL EFFECTS! The bullet glanced off the base of the cranial vault, deflected sideways, and exited below the occipital lobe of the skull. His "wound" was nothing more than an entry hole close by "band-aide" and an exit slit, also closed by band-aide. The "slit" exit indicated the bullet was a round nose.

I vowed then that the ONLY caliber I would "carry" would be a .44 magnum because it is the ONLY (at that time) demonstrated caliber that I could be sure would create such massive destruction that nobody would just stroll into an ER with a bullet wound clean through their head!

The only autoloading pistol that comes close to the .44 magnum is the 10mm. It holds almost 3x the rounds, and delivers power within 200 lb-ft of the .44. It pushes a cartridge "fast enough," with enough terminal energy to cause massive secondary damage, and it has 15 after the first one to reinforce if needed!

My personal "favorite" is my .500 S&W Magnum stoked with 380 grain massive flat point hard cast slugs building 2,000 lb-ft of KE. A "center mass" hit with that caliber and power WILL remove a significant amount of the person's internal anatomy. I am supremely confident based on wounds I have seen, and wounds I have personally inflicted that a mid-level .500 load will "stop" someone. The difference is 2,000 lb-ft versus 400 lb-ft for a top 9mm load, or 450 for a top .45 ACP load. Is the .500 ideal for rapid follow up shots? Maybe....I can pump out 5 shots in one second which isn't slow and results in 10,000 lb-ft of KE going into the target. No, it's not "easily" concealable...it CAN be, but it does require a "rig" for long term carry, but if needed....it's devastating.
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:40 AM
BigBadAl BigBadAl is offline
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  #41  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:58 AM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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Has there been any reports on the effectiveness of the little 5.7x28mm round that a lot of police and military have started to use? Have reports about anyone shot with them filtered out into the world yet?
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2016, 07:20 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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I researched this some more and the little 5.7x28mm round appears to be very effective.
reference http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...-7-pistol.html

Unfortunately the jihadist Hassan used a 5.7x28 handgun at Fort Hood and the results show it to be quite lethal and effective too.

The .22 TCM has similar ballistics and could be considered the same for lethality too.

Quote:
1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.

The following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R round can create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).

In conclusion:
1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
2. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
3. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.

Last edited by earlwb; 06-23-2016 at 07:27 PM. Reason: add more information
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  #43  
Old 06-27-2016, 01:04 AM
42241 42241 is offline
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You DA'MAN if you can fire 5 shots from a 500 S&W in one second!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilibreaux View Post
The 9mm and .45 ACP in Mil-spec are essentially 350-375 lb-ft of KE which is not much at all when compared to rounds generally regarded as suitable for taking deer-size game (human size).

Military bullets are optimized for reliable feeding, penetration, and minimal tissue destruction by action of the bullet, which is why, round nose slugs as standard handgun velocities tend to do little in the way of "stopping" immediately unless the CNS is impacted.

Bullets traveling at subsonic and transonic speeds tend to do little in the way of secondary damage, especially if round nosed.

As velocity doubles, kinetic energy quadruples, which is to say that even small increases in velocity are more efficient in causing damage than increases in mass, or size.

As someone who worked in ER and ICU for many years, I've seen countless GSW's and low-powered handgun rounds in the .38spl-.45ACP spectrum are not generally destructive of tissue beyond the primary wound channel.

So-called "magnum" cartridges that push bullets above 1,300 fps start to cause secondary effects due to transference of the supersonic shock wave. This is the rationale used by early 20th century bullet designers, most notably Elmer Keith who codified the "semi-wadcutter" design pushed at velocities above 1,400 fps. Such bullets, as such speeds, tend to create significant secondary effects.

It is not as simple as saying "hangun" versus "rifle" considering so many handguns produce "rifle" power. The S&W .500 Magnum is capable of delivering in excess of 2,500 lb-ft of KE, and doing so with a relatively huge, one ounce slug, half and inch in diameter traveling at a mere 1,600 fps. Such a round will create far MORE tissue destruction than will a .308 rifle due to the extremely large diameter, blunt-nose slug, yet what must NOT be ignored is the kinetic energy being produced, because THAT is indeed the final "predictor" of terminal effectiveness.

Until the recent period, all who studied ballistics learned and understood the concept of kinetic energy, yet in recent years it seems many who lack a formal understanding of ballistics presume the diameter of a round relates to its "power," though such is not the case.

The .44 Magnum delivers around 1,000 lb-ft of KE in a .429" bullet, which, if either SWC shaped or expanding, caused massive tissue destruction in close-range situations...wounding that the 350 lb-ft KE .45 ACP cannot even come close to matching. The smaller .357 Magnum, in proper magnum loads can exceed 700-800 or more lb-ft of KE, and even though the slug is smaller in diameter, if it's weight is appropriate for the target, terminal impact can be quite explosive. The 10mm, in proper loadings exceeds 800 lb-ft of KE, with velocities well into the "magnum" range, and thus produces explosive tissue results at close range.

The diminutive 5.56mm M193 only weighs 55 grains, yet, upon impact at close range where a significant amount of its KINETIC energy is dumped through tumbling and fragmentation, approximately 1,200 lb-ft of KE are dispersed into the target...hence a high probability of "one shot stops" assuming no body armor has depleted the round's effectiveness.

If you want to see an example of the ".45 ACP" that causes explosive terminal effect, then look at the .460 Rowland. This is a lengthened, double-pressure load that is capable of causing the complete destruction of a human head by explosion at close range. It can deliver in excess of 1,200 lb-ft of KE at speeds in excess of 1,700 fps...it is NOT by any means just a hopped up .45 ACP. The "ACP" was left in the dust about 850 lb-ft of KE ago!

In many years of hunting and killing game animals, what I have noted is that produce extreme velocities and kinetic energies, animals drop...so too do people. Cartridges that are MARGINAL for the application result in animals (or people) still on their feet and seemingly unaffected until natural body homeostatic processes kick in to "remind them" they need treatment.

In many years as an ER and ICU Nurse I noted the poor terminal performance of the currently popular compliment of calibers.....38 spl, 9mm, .45 ACP. UNLESS they hit the CNS they do not result in "instant incapacitation." UNLESS they hit a major artery, they DO NOT cause a rapid onset of "sit down" on the part of the person hit. People have WALKED into my ER with GSW up to and including the .45 ACP...walked....in, and the way we discovered they had been shot by a .45 ACP was on xray where the bullet was revealed.

As an ICU Nurse, AFTER having had a patient who came in with a bullet hole directly through the bridge of his nose, that exited the occipital aspect of the skull, off-center to the vertebral column and had NO ILL EFFECTS! The bullet glanced off the base of the cranial vault, deflected sideways, and exited below the occipital lobe of the skull. His "wound" was nothing more than an entry hole close by "band-aide" and an exit slit, also closed by band-aide. The "slit" exit indicated the bullet was a round nose.

I vowed then that the ONLY caliber I would "carry" would be a .44 magnum because it is the ONLY (at that time) demonstrated caliber that I could be sure would create such massive destruction that nobody would just stroll into an ER with a bullet wound clean through their head!

The only autoloading pistol that comes close to the .44 magnum is the 10mm. It holds almost 3x the rounds, and delivers power within 200 lb-ft of the .44. It pushes a cartridge "fast enough," with enough terminal energy to cause massive secondary damage, and it has 15 after the first one to reinforce if needed!

My personal "favorite" is my .500 S&W Magnum stoked with 380 grain massive flat point hard cast slugs building 2,000 lb-ft of KE. A "center mass" hit with that caliber and power WILL remove a significant amount of the person's internal anatomy. I am supremely confident based on wounds I have seen, and wounds I have personally inflicted that a mid-level .500 load will "stop" someone. The difference is 2,000 lb-ft versus 400 lb-ft for a top 9mm load, or 450 for a top .45 ACP load. Is the .500 ideal for rapid follow up shots? Maybe....I can pump out 5 shots in one second which isn't slow and results in 10,000 lb-ft of KE going into the target. No, it's not "easily" concealable...it CAN be, but it does require a "rig" for long term carry, but if needed....it's devastating.
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  #44  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:07 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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I was thinking that a .500 S&W firing one of those frangible bullets that explode into a bunch of fragments leaving a core to continue on would be the ultimate cartridge. With the .500 round the bullet could have lots of little bits that break off causing damage but it still would have a huge heavy core for penetration purposes.
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  #45  
Old 07-01-2016, 12:25 PM
sousana sousana is offline
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I love my 500. Powerful and accurate it just packs one heck of a wallop. Both in recoil and ammo costs. I tried both the 4"&6" models and settled on the 4".

Makes shooting my 2" ricer alaskan 454 seem like .22 Lol.
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  #46  
Old 08-02-2016, 05:58 PM
Oneill Oneill is offline
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Just wondering if anyone has seen damage from a polycase or arx bullet? They are extremely light (80 gr for 9mm).
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  #47  
Old 09-24-2016, 08:55 AM
JonesHall JonesHall is offline
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Trump should let it somehow be put in the left's mind that he is hiding serious health issues. Then when the rabble that is the media spin that up and there begins to be a demand that he must submit to a medical evaluation he simply says no problem, ladies first.
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  #48  
Old 09-28-2016, 06:17 PM
53Dannyboy 53Dannyboy is offline
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My late Uncle lived in south central Montana, owned several .30 caliber rifles but actually hunted & killed Mule Deer with a favorite of his...a .22 rimfire rifle! He engaged them from the rim of a coulee, striking them behind an ear. The results were predictable of course, they almost never left the spot they were occupying when hit.

My point, as a soldier and Peace Officer through the years I have witnessed one fact in most shootings, shot placement (most difficult when stressed to the maximum) appears to be most important regardless of caliber, velocity, bullet configuration, energy, etc. In most cases when a firearm goes bang, the target stops it's action, not caring if it was hit with a .22 rimfire, .357Mag or .308. Of course there are exceptions, as with some of you, I have seen men jacked up on angel dust (PCP) that seemed impossible to stop.

I feel whatever one can afford to buy & carry, if it's a .22, .380 or .45ACP, they must be proficient with it or they might as well carry a club. My wife (also a former Cop) carries either her Bersa .380 or S&W .357, just whatever strikes her fancy at the moment. I carry my tried and true 1911 .45ACP.

Regardless of the size of the missile, it will cause a person (in most cases) to stop what they were doing and start thinking about seeking some relief...if they are able!
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  #49  
Old 09-29-2016, 09:41 AM
sousana sousana is offline
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I agree with above.

In this day and age of many different defensive loadings in each caliber your choice of round really doesn't matter.

What's ALWAYS mattered has been shot placement. The faster you a confrontation the safer all will be.

My old Gunny used to drill his Corpsman thusly:

1. Arrive at the range with our issue 1911
2. Fire 2 magazines warm up
3. Shoot the USMC 1911 pistol qual course
4. After scores are tallied we begin a 1hr workout and run.
5. Immediately folliwing the workout we re-qualify on the range.

Look at your two scores, the 1st is your calm score, the 2nd is how you'd shoot under stress.

The key is to practice until both scores are close together. Reloading either a revolver or semi auto under stress with adrenaline pumping is not easy. Ask anyone who's seen combat.
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  #50  
Old 10-09-2016, 12:15 PM
creepyoldguy creepyoldguy is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Many of these posts seem to focus on how many victims shot with fmj's eventually died in the hospital vs jhp's. Seems to me, if they
both made it to the er, they both had the opportunity to harm their victims. It matters little to me at this point whether the bad guys made it or not. The fact that there are endless, seemingly non-conclusive discussions about fmj vs jhp, the differences must not be that great.

When I carry, its 230 gr fmj "ball" in the Gold Cup because its all I think is necessary. In my H.P., its 124 gr. Speer Gold Dot +P, because I think the 9mm is inferior and needs the boost. In the .380 Body Guard, its Fiocci ball because this caliber needs all the help in penetration it can get and most likely, jhp would not expand anyway. If it did it probably wouldn't penetrate.

I don't offer any scientific facts, er experience or numbers to support my decisions on this, but I'm an old fart who has been handgunning and reloading for over 50 yes and I'm comfortable with these choices.

Flame-on 😀
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