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  #26  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:03 PM
tjpaxton tjpaxton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
What I can't believe is the people who spend thousands of dollars on a pistol, and then put cheapo ammo in it? WTH are you thinking?
RIA is cheap. RIA is in the hundreds price range not the thousands price range.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2019, 07:26 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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And is all many can afford, thus the choice to shoot the most inexpensive ammunition.
Next level....$2K gun with tailored handloads.
Anybody want to guess which is most accurate??
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:41 PM
markm markm is offline
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Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
What I can't believe is the people who spend thousands of dollars on a pistol, and then put cheapo ammo in it? WTH are you thinking?
Well in my case, being anal, I just don't like loosing my good brass. I only shot reloads until I started shooting action pistol where you can't stop and pick up your brass. Most action shooting doesn't require a high level of accuracy, so I test a bunch and buy what shoots the best. I buy it ten cases at a time for that purpose and I shutter to think what that would cost with good Federal ammo.
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:02 PM
tjpaxton tjpaxton is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
Well in my case, being anal, I just don't like loosing my good brass. I only shot reloads until I started shooting action pistol where you can't stop and pick up your brass. Most action shooting doesn't require a high level of accuracy, so I test a bunch and buy what shoots the best. I buy it ten cases at a time for that purpose and I shutter to think what that would cost with good Federal ammo.

Federal American Eagle or Blazer Brass is made by the same company as Federal Premium.

You can buy bulk online and get free shipping. American Eagle might be one cent more per round than WWB. Blazer Brass can be found online for cheaper than WWB.

Both brands frequently have a 25% mail-in rebate.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:29 PM
markm markm is offline
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Originally Posted by tjpaxton View Post
Federal American Eagle or Blazer Brass is made by the same company as Federal Premium.
I knew that but the AE in 45 seems to be the same brass as regular Federal ammo and in 9 I see a lot off brass from Federal that looks identical to Blazer, kind of cheapish but since I've never bought that I don't know if it's AE or not.
For 9 I've found my STI's really like S&B 115, albeit dirty as heck it is constantly more accurate and as cheap as BB, I haven't had a failure yet, knock on wood.
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  #31  
Old 10-22-2019, 07:31 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
Well in my case, being anal, I just don't like loosing my good brass. I only shot reloads until I started shooting action pistol where you can't stop and pick up your brass. Most action shooting doesn't require a high level of accuracy, so I test a bunch and buy what shoots the best. I buy it ten cases at a time for that purpose and I shutter to think what that would cost with good Federal ammo.
Dood! It sounds like you reload right? Either way, dumping $1500 routinely on ten cases is crazy. Just buy cheap once fired brass, load it up and save $$Thousands......not to mention better accuracy. If you donít reload...start!
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2019, 07:46 AM
nmanzie nmanzie is offline
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Originally Posted by ButchA View Post
Not all factory ammo. There is some amazing, top quality, stuff out there in .45 ACP but you will pay a pretty penny for it.
I agree ButchA. ∆∆∆∆∆

However, if you cannot reload, SigSauer Elite Performance ammo is great. It runs cleaner than most. It's a bit pricey, but affordable.

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  #33  
Old 10-23-2019, 07:55 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Thatíll put the smack down on a guys wallet if you buy 10 cases at a time routinely. Thatís what we are talking about. A box every now and then is a different story entirely.
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2019, 01:39 PM
markm markm is offline
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Dood! It sounds like you reload right? Either way, dumping $1500 routinely on ten cases is crazy. Just buy cheap once fired brass, load it up and save $$Thousands......not to mention better accuracy. If you donít reload...start!
Yes I reload a lot, everything else pistol and rifle except shotgun. And yes I get a lot better accuracy but I just don't like messing with 9, it's just not worth a few hundred a year savings to me. Now 45, 40 or 10 I almost never shoot factory ammo.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2019, 07:27 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I suppose you are right, especially with todayís availability and pricing. You know as well as I do that the entire plan can go down the crapper in a second. You will find yourself reloading 9 when it becomes necessary again. Others will struggle through and just complain about the situation.
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  #36  
Old 10-26-2019, 07:56 PM
Tim_B Tim_B is offline
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Speaking of WWB I was shooting some about a week ago and something weird happened. Tell me what you think this was. I had a round that made a soft "foof" instead of bang. I thought I had a squib but there was nothing stuck in the barrel. When I looked at the target I had the usual round holes but below there there was a skinny tear mark about an inch long and another smaller one near it.

Do you think this was maybe a round that fragmented or maybe an empty copper jacket with no actual lead bullet in it?

I was shooting WWB 230 grain FMJ.
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  #37  
Old 10-26-2019, 08:45 PM
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Rifter Rifter is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim_B View Post
Speaking of WWB I was shooting some about a week ago and something weird happened. Tell me what you think this was. I had a round that made a soft "foof" instead of bang. I thought I had a squib but there was nothing stuck in the barrel. When I looked at the target I had the usual round holes but below there there was a skinny tear mark about an inch long and another smaller one near it.

Do you think this was maybe a round that fragmented or maybe an empty copper jacket with no actual lead bullet in it?

I was shooting WWB 230 grain FMJ.



I've had that happen, and not just with Winchester. The cheap Federal crap from Walmart has done it as well. I think what it was is a round that doesn't have a good seal, so the pressure never builds up enough for a normal 'bang', only enough to push the bullet out of the barrel. You only get about half the pressure of a normal round.



As I've said before, I've chronographed the Federal stuff and gotten velocity swings of as much as 200 fps, most of which was below normal 830 fps. Not too much of a stretch to get a 'poofer' now and then with QC as screwed up as that.
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  #38  
Old 10-27-2019, 07:31 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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And yet.......there are still those people that are in denial.
I donít get ďPoofersĒ with my reloads.
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:02 PM
Righteous Righteous is offline
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I shoot WWB all the time in 45 acp with no problems and did so this weekend. Seems no dirtier then the rest and no harder to clean after shooting
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2019, 03:01 AM
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I shoot WWB all the time in 45 acp with no problems and did so this weekend. Seems no dirtier then the rest and no harder to clean after shooting

You don't get how this works, do you? Individual anecdotes are meaningless. What counts is the cumulative data of tens of thousands of shooters, which gives you a statistical base to work with. Plucking one piece of data out of millions tells you nothing.
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  #41  
Old 10-30-2019, 07:28 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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The other item of note should be the definition of ďproblemsĒ. In my opinion, accuracy of 8Ē from 10 yards is a problem. Yeah, yeah, itís not me either, nor the gun. We do perfectly fine together with a handful of reloads.
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  #42  
Old 10-30-2019, 07:57 AM
nmanzie nmanzie is offline
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Thatíll put the smack down on a guys wallet if you buy 10 cases at a time routinely. Thatís what we are talking about. A box every now and then is a different story entirely.
It does get pricey, but when you have circumstances that prohibit you from reloading, it's better to get good ammo. Trust me, I wish I could reload.
So for now, Sig Sauer Elite Performance Ammo it is.

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  #43  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:30 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Iím in full support of that. More power to you if you donít mind the expense. Lots of folks have reasons why they cannot/donít reload. The ones that donít have a reason and profess the superior attributes of factory ammo have a screw loose!
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2019, 05:08 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righteous View Post
I shoot WWB all the time in 45 acp with no problems and did so this weekend. Seems no dirtier then the rest and no harder to clean after shooting

You don't get how this works, do you? Individual anecdotes are meaningless. What counts is the cumulative data of tens of thousands of shooters, which gives you a statistical base to work with. Plucking one piece of data out of millions tells you nothing.
Sounds like it worked for Righteous?😂😂😂
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2019, 06:12 AM
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Sounds like it worked for Righteous?😂😂😂



The point is that if you go by individual anecdotes, it just keeps perpetuating the same old crap because people aren't discriminating enough to demand better quality. That lets those companies turning out the garbage to continue to do so. Same old same old.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:47 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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These companies rely on the occasional shooter that goes out whenever the weather is nice, none of which really know what quality ammo is like. Then comes hunting season with all of the greenhorns blasting away in the woods. They have their business model set up. Unfortunately, it does not include the discerning customer nearly as much as in days gone by. Junk is tolerated since it is prolific in so many products these days. Winchester would stop the presses if a box of todayís crap was discovered just a few decades ago.
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  #47  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:08 AM
Tim_B Tim_B is offline
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A few months ago I opened a 100 round box of WWB and among the good rounds I found this:



Still, I have probably fired between 40,000 to 50,000 rounds of WWB 230 gr FMJ in the past six years and I have only had two failures of .45 ACP rounds. The one shown above and an underpowered one. 9mm is a different story.
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2019, 07:47 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Well, sure you have...
They have all gone bang. Now, it is a safe bet to say that there was about every variance of seating depth from the picture you just showed to a normal round along the way. The point isnít so much that there are duds and ridiculous examples like you have shown. The real issue is that there is horrific consistency. Fluctuations in seating depth and powder charge put you all over the map. 8Ē plates from 20 feet, paint cans and detergent bottles full of water make for a fun day and all this stuff is intended for. Perfectly fine for most and they know it. I choose to be a tad more precise.
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  #49  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:13 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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These 3 just came out of a 200 count box of WWB. The center one has what is probably a normal crimp and the two others have very excessive crimp. All from the same box.
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  #50  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:15 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Still, not so bad considering other examples. One of the most ridiculous I have seen was a member posting some UMC seating depth variances from the same box. Easily 1/8Ē from low to high. Someone would have been fired for that back in the day. No one cares, people are numb to mediocrity and continue to buy the crap.
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