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  #1  
Old 12-31-2019, 05:20 PM
5pins 5pins is offline
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Fiocchi .380 ACP 90gr XTP in Clear Ballistics Gel.



Test Gun: Ruger LCP
Barrel length: 2.75 inches.
Ammunition: Fiocchi .380 ACP 90gr XTP
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 808fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

Shooting the bull on YouTube did an in-depth test on .380 ammo and concluded that the XTP bullet performed the best. I have been meaning to do my testing with this bullet and finally got around to it. I picked up some Fiocchi .380 ammo featuring Hornaday’s XTP bullet.

I got a five-shot average velocity of 808fps with a high of 828fps and a low of 790fps.


Five rounds offhand at 5 yards.

The first round shot in the clear gel had a velocity of 817fps and penetrated to 12.5 inches. The recovered diameter was .45 inches and weight was 89.9 grains. Round two’s velocity was 795fps and the bullet penetrated to 13 inches. The recovered diameter of the bullet was .44 inches and its weight was 90.5 grains.



When shot through the heavy clothing gel neither round expanded. The first round had a velocity of 784fps and penetrated to 17.5 inches. The recovered weight was 89.9 grains. The second round’s velocity was 792fps and it penetrated to a depth of 16.5 inches. It’s recovered weight was 90.4 grains. The second round showed signs of beginning to open up.

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  #2  
Old 01-02-2020, 09:35 AM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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Thank you for your contributions, greatly appreciated.

I only shoot XTPs in .380 also, but I use Underwood's hot version. I am guessing they are clocking a bit north of 1,000 fps, likely enough to initiate expansion even with the clothing barrier.

Not only do the XTPs tend to be about the most reliable expander in .380, they feed really well which is a plus in finicky pocket .380s.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2020, 03:03 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Well we know what to use if we ever get attacked by a naked person.

In seriousness though, the Underwood version sounds promising.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2020, 04:09 PM
mikld mikld is offline
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Interesting. Thanks. I just got a SCCY in 380 (because I didn't have a 380) and have been using XTPs for reloading. In your second round shooting heavy clothing, seems it clogged the cavities stopping expansion , but allowed deeper penetration.
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:56 PM
mr380acp mr380acp is offline
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I only use 380 ball. I think any type of hollowpoint/+p ammo used in a SD situation in any caliber could be problematic. Just my $.02
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2020, 03:09 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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This has certainly long been the prevailing wisdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr380acp View Post
I only use 380 ball. I think any type of hollowpoint/+p ammo used in a SD situation in any caliber could be problematic. Just my $.02
But perhaps they have improved the round to the point where we may begin to consider otherwise. Certainly the .380 round is a popular carry option. Maybe over time some real life (unfortunately) performance information will come to light.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2020, 04:06 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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Thanks for the test using a LCP. Iteresting to see what ammo will do out of a real gun not a 4" test bbl.
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2020, 03:00 PM
mikld mikld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr380acp View Post
I only use 380 ball. I think any type of hollowpoint/+p ammo used in a SD situation in any caliber could be problematic. Just my $.02
Just wondering and for my info only; What problems?
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:02 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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I watched the same videos. I'm not normally a Hydra Shok fan, but in that barrel length they were in the top 3 ahead of the HST and Gold Dots I prefer in other guns. So that's what I have in my BodyGuard and will go in the LCP II for those rare occasions I carry them.

I used to carry the BG in a belly band around my chest to put the gun just under my left pocket when I worked, but wasn't supposed to carry. Good for deep concealment.

What really surprised me watching STB's Ammo Quest videos on the .380 was how different the various rounds acted out of the pocket guns (I think he used a Taurus) verses the results when he tested guns in the Bersa/Walther PPK sized guns.

Thanks for sharing your results.
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2020, 11:29 PM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Iron Wolf View Post

What really surprised me watching STB's Ammo Quest videos on the .380 was how different the various rounds acted out of the pocket guns (I think he used a Taurus) verses the results when he tested guns in the Bersa/Walther PPK sized guns.
.
The .380 in a carry gun typically sits right on the fence of the velocity threshold between expansion or not. In that case, an inch of barrel can make a world of difference.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:42 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr380acp View Post
I only use 380 ball. I think any type of hollowpoint/+p ammo used in a SD situation in any caliber could be problematic. Just my $.02
Well, let’s not go so far as to say “any” caliber. Many have plenty of energy/velocity to effectively expand a hollow point. This is to say those companies that match the attributes of the projectile to the round. Many do not, it’s a one size fits all thing. All that said, I agree with the 380 ball thing. Of all the cartridges to use, this one won’t have to be worried about in the over penetration category! Reminds me of a funny video showing 380 bullets falling out of the face of a plywood target. It was a humorous comparison between that and several other calibers that destroyed the board. Still, better than nothing......
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:14 PM
mr380acp mr380acp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
Just wondering and for my info only; What problems?
Im thinking using any kind of +p or hollowpoint type of ammo in any caliber could possibly be a legal issue for the person that used it. It could be suggested that the person using it had some sort of premeditaion, for example "he was armed with the most lethal armor piercing bullets" etc. blah blah....
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:28 PM
mikld mikld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr380acp View Post
Im thinking using any kind of +p or hollowpoint type of ammo in any caliber could possibly be a legal issue for the person that used it. It could be suggested that the person using it had some sort of premeditaion, for example "he was armed with the most lethal armor piercing bullets" etc. blah blah....
Oh, this again. Do you know that factory SD ammo is designed to be as "deadly" as possible? My handloads, even my fast JHPs are not as deadly as some factory SD loads. Ammo manufacturers hire engineers to design the deadliest possible round, true "killer ammo", for Law Enforcement and civilian SD ammo, for precise penetration and extreme tissue damage. So, the argument "his handloads are only meant to kill" means very little/nothing...
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:21 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Actually, using ball ammo can be problematic. Not just from the standpoint of stopping the threat, but also from over penetration endangering bystanders, and that you might need to shoot more times for the same effect on the assailant.

Granted in truly communist places like NJ I believe it is illegal for civilians to carry HP ammo in their carry gun, for those few who have a carry permit there.

Generally speaking JHP ammo has shown to do its job then more often lodge under the skin or barely penetrate the back skin. Also since the HP does a better job of cutting tissue, leading to faster loss of oxygen to the brain, assuming good hits, incapacitation happens sooner. That's relatively speaking as unless there is a solid Central Nervous System (CNS) hit, even excellent hits that allow for good internal bleeding can take 5-20 seconds to take effect. Plenty of time for an attacker to put rounds, or knife cuts into you. Take a look at the FBI Wound Ballistics testing and reports on handgun stopping power, and I use the term power loosely.

You have the defense for using HP and +P is that you are using the same ammunition that law enforcement uses for self defense for the very same reasons. More effective at stopping an attack without over penetration endangering bystanders, and requiring less rounds fired to stop an attacker which allows a better chance of the attacker surviving and receiving medical attention to survive.

As an instructor pointed out in my CHL class when one of the ladies there was worried about killing someone. The survival rate of someone being shot with a handgun if quick medical attention is nearby is 70%. With a rifle it's 35%. With a shotgun, 10%. Handguns are actually weak manstoppers.

I can see the argument of ball vs JHP in .380 and smaller where there is some concern about enough penetration to reach vitals. When you get into 9x19 (9MM) and up, ball is simply a bad choice for a number of reasons. Mostly over penetration and a lack of effectiveness. Yes, people have been put down and even killed with ball ammo. There's also been plenty of failures to stop a determined attacker.

There are plenty of already established legitimate justifications for the use of standard defense loads such as +P and JHP ammo and not shortage of expert witnesses who could address that in a court of law. Not too mention the FBI report on the mechanics of handgun rounds used in self defense. Why would any reasonable person think using the recognizably more efficient ammo designed for that purpose was anything but the right thing to do. Just stay away from ammo that uses catchy names meant to evoke visions of carnage and killing power.

One could also say you are using FMJ ammo to try and defeat body armor and shoot people behind barriers. Faulty logic in either case.
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Last edited by Amos Iron Wolf; 01-08-2020 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
Oh, this again. Do you know that factory SD ammo is designed to be as "deadly" as possible? My handloads, even my fast JHPs are not as deadly as some factory SD loads. Ammo manufacturers hire engineers to design the deadliest possible round, true "killer ammo", for Law Enforcement and civilian SD ammo, for precise penetration and extreme tissue damage. So, the argument "his handloads are only meant to kill" means very little/nothing...



Why do people spend so much time watching those idiotic cop/lawyer shows? That's where all this crap comes from. Any defense lawyer that allows a DA to use that kind of tactic against his client should be disbarred for malpractice.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:36 PM
mikld mikld is offline
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Quote:
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Why do people spend so much time watching those idiotic cop/lawyer shows? That's where all this crap comes from. Any defense lawyer that allows a DA to use that kind of tactic against his client should be disbarred for malpractice.
I first saw this issue when I started going to reloading forums in about 2006, and in all the thousands of posts/opinions, no consensus...
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:57 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Why do people spend so much time watching those idiotic cop/lawyer shows? That's where all this crap comes from. Any defense lawyer that allows a DA to use that kind of tactic against his client should be disbarred for malpractice.
And yet, the “Hazard County” scenario is alive and well in many sleepy little corrupt towns across the US that do exactly that. Ignorance spawns ignorance. It only takes one smart guy!
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