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  #1  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:19 PM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
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Real 9x23 Winchester ammo gone...

Was over looking on the Winchester ammo site and under their listing for 9x23 ammo is a (0). They used to have both the Silvertip and white box 124 SP listed even though only the white box was being produced...well now it seems they are both gone as well as the unprimed brass I would guess...

Sad...a really great cartridge....

Buffalo Bore and a few others are still making ammo but with Starline not Winchester brass... Starline makes great brass but there is a difference between their 9x23 and Winchesters....

Bob
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:32 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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Both show as products on Winchester ammo site.

They just released a massive run of silver tips earlier this year. I bought a couple cases. I’m sure there’s not enough volume to make it a standard production item.

It’s still a great round and is gaining a little momentum in the market.
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:34 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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Just checked a bunch of sites and they have the silver tips in stock including midway.

Go to AmmoSeek to find the best prices.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:06 PM
TacoBobbo TacoBobbo is offline
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Yup. Ammo seek for ammo. Got 4 boxes of Silvertips and 2 jhp from Bud's last week. Got some 147gr Buffalo Bore from Midway. And 500 Winchester cases from Graf's. All last week. Need to get some more, so save me some.....
Bob
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:55 PM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
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Wonder why when I checked it showed no products....

And yes, I did just check several sites and there is tons of ammo out there...

Glad I was wrong!!!

Bob
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:11 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Just curious, but what is the “difference” between Starline and Win brass that you don’t like? Starline is vastly superior to the Winchester brass of today.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:45 AM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Just curious, but what is the “difference” between Starline and Win brass that you don’t like? Starline is vastly superior to the Winchester brass of today.
Not to mention that Starline makes brass for most of the ammomakers , including runs of not as popular calibers like the 9x23 for the big boys like Winchester and Remington.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2019, 05:46 PM
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Starline's announcement of their 9x23 brass indicated it was merely a new headstamp for what was 9 Super Comp; is it really 9x23 WIN made by someone else, or is it just a long, tapered 9mm case that isn't designed to take the 45,000psi (55,000psi?) of Winchester brass?
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2019, 04:26 AM
ClarkEMyers ClarkEMyers is offline
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I have some Starline cases, maybe 1500(?) and a few bags of Winchester cases. Some left from stopping at Powder Valley and buying all they had. There is more metal in the Winchester.

Take my word for it or not as you please but the Winchester head stamp brass is good for higher pressures than the Starline head stamp brass.

Notice the 9x23 Winchester has less case capacity and so will give higher pressures with equal charges all else equal. But notice also the SAAMI chamber for a 9x23 has a longer looser throat Weatherby freebore style and that too affects pressure.

Agreed that Starline is generally superior brass. BUT however true in general to say
Quote:
Starline is vastly superior to the Winchester brass of today. ……….
or
Quote:
Not to mention that Starline makes brass for most of the ammomakers , including runs of not as popular calibers like the 9x23 for the big boys like Winchester and Remington.
is simply meaningless for the 9x23.

It may be true that Starline makes the Winchester marked 9x23 brass but no matter who makes it the brass is not the same.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2019, 10:04 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkEMyers View Post
But notice also the SAAMI chamber for a 9x23 has a longer looser throat Weatherby freebore style and that too affects pressure.
I was told just the opposite. The original specs were the long, Weatherby type throat(.120"), but when SAAMI standardized it, they went with a standard throat(.060").
Looking at the SAAMI spec drawings, it is hard to tell. It appears that the start of the throat is .060", but it also appears that the throat(leade) is longer with a more gentle angle when compared to the 38 Super.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2019, 10:23 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkEMyers View Post
I have some Starline cases, maybe 1500(?) and a few bags of Winchester cases. Some left from stopping at Powder Valley and buying all they had. There is more metal in the Winchester.

Take my word for it or not as you please but the Winchester head stamp brass is good for higher pressures than the Starline head stamp brass.

Notice the 9x23 Winchester has less case capacity and so will give higher pressures with equal charges all else equal. But notice also the SAAMI chamber for a 9x23 has a longer looser throat Weatherby freebore style and that too affects pressure.

Agreed that Starline is generally superior brass. BUT however true in general to say or
is simply meaningless for the 9x23.

It may be true that Starline makes the Winchester marked 9x23 brass but no matter who makes it the brass is not the same.
Jeeze, that why the question was asked! So, I’ll revise.....Starline is a vastly superior brass manufacturer than Winchester for all BUT 9x23 cases. Sailorman shoved you back into place a bit too. Chill dude, not everyone is an expert on an oddball round.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
I have some Starline cases, maybe 1500(?) and a few bags of Winchester cases. Some left from stopping at Powder Valley and buying all they had. There is more metal in the Winchester.
As a fun experiment, I trimmed and reformed cases to use in my .30 Luger (even though I had the proper cases).
I started with .38 Super Comp, 9 Super Comp, and 9x23 WIN brass.
To get the same velocities in all four cases, I had to reduce the load in the Starline brass by .2 grain, and another .2 in the Winchester cases.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2019, 12:57 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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I’m no expert on reloading but I have been shooting and researching 9x23 for a while. For those of us familiar with the round it is well known that the Winchester brass is heavier and has thicker side walls. The 9x23 was designed to be shot in an unsupported barrel with the thicker case wall absorbing more of the pressure vs the barrel. Most hard core 9x23 will only shoot Win brass.
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2019, 02:17 PM
emptymag emptymag is offline
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Here is a Winchester factory 9x23 empty (124gr Jacketed Flat Point),
accidentally fired out of a Colt Delta Elite 10mm...
so no supported/ramped barrel (not that it would make a difference being 1mm 'loose' in the chamber already).

As you can see...
no cracking around the mouth (simply expanded to 10mm!),
no bulging or distortion around the base/head area (only .002"-.003" larger than a new/unfired factory round).
Attached Thumbnails
bulged9x23win 001.JPG   bulged9x23win 003.JPG   bulged9x23win 004.JPG   bulged9x23win 006.JPG   bulged9x23win 007.JPG   bulged9x23win 009.JPG  

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  #15  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:15 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartian View Post
I’m no expert on reloading but I have been shooting and researching 9x23 for a while. For those of us familiar with the round it is well known that the Winchester brass is heavier and has thicker side walls. The 9x23 was designed to be shot in an unsupported barrel with the thicker case wall absorbing more of the pressure vs the barrel. Most hard core 9x23 will only shoot Win brass.
Thanks for the explanation. The reasoning sounds reasonable.
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:36 AM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
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From what I have read, when CorBon was making 9x23 ammo they were using Starline brass and quite a few people posted that the brass badly bulged. I have not read anything on the same loads from Buffalo Bore and I know they also use Starline brass.

I have several .38 Super chambered guns that will run 9x23 as well as two properly chambered 9x23s, one GM and one Commander but have only used Winchester factory ammo in them as I just don't shoot much of it as I can get everything I want out of a .38 Super.

But I am glad to see that Winchester has both kinds of ammo and brass for sale again...

Bob
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:48 PM
TRX302 TRX302 is offline
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Starline's announcement of their 9x23 brass indicated it was merely a new headstamp for what was 9
Hey, it's still 9mm Largo no matter what the headstamp is...
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:36 PM
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If it's 9mm Largo, which has a max pressure of something around 25k psi(?), it probably shouldn't be loaded to double that pressure.
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