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  #1  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:48 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Who is right?

The tip of the long pin on the thumb safety of my Executive Carry broke off. To my surprise the piece was hollow and not machined from solid stock. I called Brown and they asked that I send the gun back. They sent a UPS Call Tag and charged my credit card $50. They reported back that the thumb safety was "defective" and that they were going to replace it at no charge for the part and the labor. When I requested a refund for the UPS charge Ed Brown (personally) refused.
This seems unfair to me. What do you think?
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:54 AM
martinr54 martinr54 is offline
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Unfair, but with a call tag issued by Brown how did he manage to charge your credit card? Dispute the charge with your credit card company.

Last edited by martinr54; 05-22-2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Capitalize Brown
  #3  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:54 AM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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By their admission of a defective part, THEY should have to pay for it, but I doubt they will feel the same way, obviously.
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:56 AM
baer383 baer383 is offline
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It is unfair but that has always been Ed Brown's repair/return policy.

I knew it before I ordered my KC so if I need it I understand the policy,but I do all my own work on my guns so for me it is really no concern.
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  #5  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:10 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinr54 View Post
Unfair, but with a call tag issued by Brown how did he manage to charge your credit card? Dispute the charge with your credit card company.
Justin said that was Brown policy, but suggested (unfortunately he did not guarantee and I did not demand at the time) that the shipping charges would be refunded if it was their fault. It will be a good lesson for the future.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:12 AM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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Maybe someone from their camp will see this and wake up and realize what curmudgeon's they are when it comes to this kinda stuff, loosen up the pocket book Ed buddy, seriously, if they admit it's their fault, freakin pony up the cash, it's called the cost of doing business.

I've spent $7K on their pistols in the last 45 days and seeing this kinda stuff makes me wonder. Disappointing.
  #7  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:12 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
By their admission of a defective part, THEY should have to pay for it, but I doubt they will feel the same way, obviously.
Pretty much what I think and the fact that do not feel the same way doesn't inspire confidence. Can you imagine if GE said you had to pay the freight back to the factory to repair a defective refrigerator? It's not much of a service policy or customer service program.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:16 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baer383 View Post
It is unfair but that has always been Ed Brown's repair/return policy.

I knew it before I ordered my KC so if I need it I understand the policy,but I do all my own work on my guns so for me it is really no concern.
If I knew this was the policy I may have acted differently as well. When I called initially Justin assured me that the replacement of the thumb safety was not a simple take out and put the new one in. There was fitting and adjustment required. He did not indicate it was the policy to charge for shipping other than to get the gun back and determine the cause. If the problem was cause by me, I have the obligation to pay the freight and Brown has every right to charge me for the part and the labor and the return freight (which they paid).
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:22 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
Maybe someone from their camp will see this and wake up and realize what curmudgeon's they are when it comes to this kinda stuff, loosen up the pocket book Ed buddy, seriously, if they admit it's their fault, freakin pony up the cash, it's called the cost of doing business.

I've spent $7K on their pistols in the last 45 days and seeing this kinda stuff makes me wonder. Disappointing.
Disappointing sums it up nicely or maybe it is a little to gentle. Everyone in this country is talking about taking responsibility for their actions. It would do Brown a world of good not to tarnish their reputation over petty nonsense.
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:47 AM
Quack Quack is offline
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it's been discussed before, you have to pay for shipping the firearm back to the factory.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=259648
  #11  
Old 05-22-2010, 11:11 AM
machinegun74 machinegun74 is offline
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Honestly I think they should send you a check back with your pistol, or a t-shirt and some mags.

I love my Executive Elite. Had an issue with it that was their fault and sent it back on my dime. To my benefit the local FedEx shipper sent it back for me 2-3 Day Air Saver so it was 20 bucks.

I think the only way its going to change if it effects their sales and by the serial numbers as an indicator it isnt. But sooner or later it will and stuff like this could end them.

Im sitting here with money debating on another Executive Elite with a light rail but some things are making me hesitate.
  #12  
Old 05-22-2010, 11:24 AM
jbar1tex jbar1tex is offline
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So if I am reading this correctly they charged you only one way - not both correct? I had Brown do some work on my trigger a while back (not defective, but enhanced) and I paid both ways at their discounted rate - which I thought was fair. Especially for overnight-ing a pistol.
  #13  
Old 05-22-2010, 11:47 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack View Post
it's been discussed before, you have to pay for shipping the firearm back to the factory.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=259648
Are you suggesting that having been discussed before makes it right? I'm not with you on that. They (their dealer) sold me a product with a defective part. I'm not suggesting they knew the gun had a defective part, but I think they are obligated to replace and repair the part (which they did) and cover the expense of getting the product to their factory to do that work. You are entitled to your opinion, it's just not one I share.
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2010, 11:52 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Originally Posted by machinegun74 View Post
Honestly I think they should send you a check back with your pistol, or a t-shirt and some mags.

I love my Executive Elite. Had an issue with it that was their fault and sent it back on my dime. To my benefit the local FedEx shipper sent it back for me 2-3 Day Air Saver so it was 20 bucks.

I think the only way its going to change if it effects their sales and by the serial numbers as an indicator it isnt. But sooner or later it will and stuff like this could end them.

Im sitting here with money debating on another Executive Elite with a light rail but some things are making me hesitate.
There is a lot of competition out there and a lot of semi-custom manufacturers chasing customers. I have an EE and an EC so I'm in with both feet, but your point about thinking twice before another purchase is well taken.
I also felt burned by the $50 charge which I think is higher than what it would have cost if I boxed it up and took it to FedEx or UPS. Why should shipping be a profit center for Brown? It's like double jeopardy.
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2010, 11:56 AM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbar1tex View Post
So if I am reading this correctly they charged you only one way - not both correct? I had Brown do some work on my trigger a while back (not defective, but enhanced) and I paid both ways at their discounted rate - which I thought was fair. Especially for overnight-ing a pistol.
You are correct. They paid the shipping (2nd Day in both cases) back to me. If I wanted to have work done on my gun I would not ask and would not expect the manufacturer to pay for shipping in either direction. I also do not think I got the advantage of their discounted rate. My feeling is I was overcharged. If anyone knows the cost of 2nd Day Air UPS it would be interesting. I'm guessing it is less than $50 which is what I was charged.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:05 PM
tracyballard tracyballard is offline
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It seems like if Justin said Brown would pay the shipping both ways if the fault was with the part, then they should have paid for shipping both ways. Brown owes this guy something, either a refund for his shipping, or a better explanation of this part with the hollow leg.
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2010, 12:42 PM
scw2 scw2 is offline
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NFK,

Four years ago, my memory of the cost to ship a Kobra Carry to Ed Brown's shop in Perry, Missourri was about $50 via Fed Ex from the SW 152 Street, Miami-Dade County, Florida, Fed Ex, shipping depot. I am giving this example becaused it is close to your location. Perry is a little difficult to get to.

If I were running Brown, I would track and then total my legitimate warranty work events, multiply the number of events due to legitimate warranty work times an estimated per customer incoming shipping cost and mark the cost of all guns up by this probable small amount per gun sold. I would then give customers who paid for shipping for legitimate warranty work a credit for their incoming shipping to Brown.

I would not pay this if all your mags did not work because you were riding the slide stop or if you shot three inches to the left and the sights were dead on.

I would formally announce this policy on the Ed Brown web site.

Barring doing this, I would formally put on the web site, if not already there, that customer pays all shipping in on warranty work.

This is the way I would try to handle it. But Brown has been very successful doing it their way.

Regards,

Craig
  #18  
Old 05-22-2010, 12:50 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Overnight plus insurance on a $2k+ is easily $50 ish.

It is a legitimate complaint you have. But this is Brown's policy. I would wait to see what happens when you get it back. Maybe they will throw in some mags for the trouble.

Other than that, I have no advice. And I have no answers.


Regards,
Greyson
  #19  
Old 05-22-2010, 12:51 PM
Dredd Dredd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFK View Post
You are correct. They paid the shipping (2nd Day in both cases) back to me. If I wanted to have work done on my gun I would not ask and would not expect the manufacturer to pay for shipping in either direction. I also do not think I got the advantage of their discounted rate. My feeling is I was overcharged. If anyone knows the cost of 2nd Day Air UPS it would be interesting. I'm guessing it is less than $50 which is what I was charged.
From what I've experienced, UPS and FedEx both require you to ship overnight if you are not an FFL. That plus insurance is about $80.

Also in my experience, only a few manufacturers will pay shipping from you to them but they all have covered shipping from them to me. That is to say it's my problem how it gets to their facility, it's their problem how it gets back. Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Smith & Wesson, and I believe Springfield have paid shipping both ways. Sig Sauer, Glock, Taurus, Dan Wesson, and FN have required me to ship the gun to them at my cost and all work and return shipping was free of charge. Whether this has changed or they make certain exceptions I do not know. I have experience with Sig, Glock, Taurus, DW, and FN all requiring me to pay one way.
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Last edited by Dredd; 05-22-2010 at 12:57 PM.
  #20  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:02 PM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracyballard View Post
It seems like if Justin said Brown would pay the shipping both ways if the fault was with the part, then they should have paid for shipping both ways. Brown owes this guy something, either a refund for his shipping, or a better explanation of this part with the hollow leg.
Thank you for that.
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  #21  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:11 PM
NFK NFK is offline
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Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
NFK,

Four years ago, my memory of the cost to ship a Kobra Carry to Ed Brown's shop in Perry, Missourri was about $50 via Fed Ex from the SW 152 Street, Miami-Dade County, Florida, Fed Ex, shipping depot. I am giving this example becaused it is close to your location. Perry is a little difficult to get to.

If I were running Brown, I would track and then total my legitimate warranty work events, multiply the number of events due to legitimate warranty work times an estimated per customer incoming shipping cost and mark the cost of all guns up by this probable small amount per gun sold. I would then give customers who paid for shipping for legitimate warranty work a credit for their incoming shipping to Brown.
No doubt about their being successful and no question that their products are high quality, but things do happen and no manufacturer can guarantee 100%. However, for this small percentage of defects (whatever that number is) it is hard to justify making the customer pay for the company's mistake. I will accept your cost estimate on the shipping and as I pointed our to Ed Brown, $50 will not change his life of mine, but it does rub me the wrong way.
I would not pay this if all your mags did not work because you were riding the slide stop or if you shot three inches to the left and the sights were dead on.

I would formally announce this policy on the Ed Brown web site.

Barring doing this, I would formally put on the web site, if not already there, that customer pays all shipping in on warranty work.

This is the way I would try to handle it. But Brown has been very successful doing it their way.

Regards,

Craig
I agree that they have been successful and I think they make a fine product and deserve that success. However is something goes wrong how can they hold the customer responsible? My guess is if Brown bought a product from one of their suppliers and the product was defective they would not send it back at their expense to have it fixed. It's a small amount, but it is extremely irritating.
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:15 PM
NFK NFK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post
Overnight plus insurance on a $2k+ is easily $50 ish.

It is a legitimate complaint you have. But this is Brown's policy. I would wait to see what happens when you get it back. Maybe they will throw in some mags for the trouble.

Other than that, I have no advice. And I have no answers.


Regards,
Greyson
The gun did come back and there was nothing in the package except the gun. They were insensitive enough not even to answer may last email asking when the gun would be returned which was two days after I sent the email.. I am fully aware that I have no leverage in the matter, but I think their attitude lacks any nuance of fairness. You can not label it Customer Service.
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Last edited by NFK; 05-22-2010 at 01:18 PM.
  #23  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:18 PM
goetztrp goetztrp is offline
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Lesson learned. The next time you get a extra 2500$ to spend on a new gun buy one from either of the companys in berryville AR. and you will never pay for shipping again.
  #24  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:25 PM
NFK NFK is offline
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Dredd,
I'm going to stop quoting and re-quoting, but in answer to your comments it was Justin (Brown's representative) who suggested that I send back the gun and not just the defective part. He said the new thumb safety would have to be fitted to the gun and that the entire mechanism would have to be adjusted. He said that if it were a defective part, which is was, the part would be replaced without charge for the part and for labor, the gun would be returned and he indicated (clearly at least in my mind) that the shipping charges put on my credit card to get the gun to Brown would be credited.

No refund, no sorry you had the problem, no freebie, just hard line: we have done all we are going to do. It's not like they gave me the gun and it's not like I broke the gun. I'm the customer and as we all know the customer is (almost) always right or they are likely not going to be a future customer.
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:26 PM
NFK NFK is offline
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Originally Posted by goetztrp View Post
Lesson learned. The next time you get a extra 2500$ to spend on a new gun buy one from either of the companys in berryville AR. and you will never pay for shipping again.
That's funny because all my current dreams take place in Berryville.
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