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  #51  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:26 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
I don't give much credence to the endless amount of chest-pounding on gun forum's as far as who is brave and who is not. It is just pointless talk.....
On the internet.....everyone is 6'3" and 225 lbs of pure badass.
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  #52  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:35 PM
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Some may grouse about it and say that they are stuck. The majority of them are only saying this euphemistically I doubt that anyone here that has "a comfortable job or lifestyle". That they do not have the wherewithal to relocate. I do not think that we have a single member here that is "stuck" where they live.

After Monday I may find myself in a position whereby my gun rights may be curtailed to an extent. I have the wherewithal to live anywhere that I wish pretty much. But I am not going anywhere. My wife and I are staying right here. And we will be fitting these bitches all the way.
Let me add to this...Leaving a state to go "hide" in another state isn't guarantee of anything. Just think of all the folks who moved from "up north" to VA and now face the shocking reality that they may have moved for nothing (if the gun issue was indeed their only reason for moving as some postulate).

We can take this retreat strategy to its final conclusion, we all retreat into a handful of states and feel safe for a time. But now that only a handful of states vote republican, we loose anyway because the Federal Government enters an endless rain of terror with Dems owning H, S, and E branches, restructures the constitution and the courts.

Leaving a lefty-state is not a strategy for 2A success, it may serve an individual, but it has nothing to do with "courage" or any other noble concept like that. Actually, one could make just the opposite argument.
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  #53  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:44 PM
scubadad scubadad is online now
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On the internet.....everyone is 6'3" and 225 lbs of pure badass.
Very true and my real name is John Holmes
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  #54  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:55 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Knowing when a fight is absolutely, irrevocable lost to change through available means, and adjusting accordingly, is sound strategy.
CA, NJ, NY, CT and such are absolutely, completely, 100% lost to positive pro 2A change through the ballot box. The ONLY thing that will restore the 2A in such places is a sweeping, crystal clear, powerful SCOTUS decision. There's nothing that the citizens of those States can do to change that. To think otherwise is to be living in MR Rodgers Land of Make Believe....
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  #55  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:00 PM
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No one has said the Army wouldn't do anything. But not ALL of the Army is going to comply with unconstitutional laws. Nor are ALL cops going to comply. To believe otherwise is to buy into the Leftist (think Biden and Swallowswell tactics).
What if the constitution is changed?
What if Santa Claus comes down your chimney?
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  #56  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:26 PM
M Yaworski M Yaworski is offline
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What if Santa Claus comes down your chimney?
The question is, for all of you constitutionalists, if the constitution is changed, will you comply. After all, at that point the gun ban would be constitutional.

At my house, Santa comes through the kitchen door.
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  #57  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:27 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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There are provisions within it to allow lawful changes.

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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
What if the constitution is changed?
It is known as the amendment process. Anything else is unlawful and therefore invalid. As such it will not be recognized by the majority of the population. Aside from that there are higher laws than the US constitution. There is no way that these laws can ever be amended, compromised, or changed.

You either stand for this, or not.
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  #58  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:28 PM
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On the internet.....everyone is 6'3" and 225 lbs of pure badass.
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  #59  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:32 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Perhaps this is the case.

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On the internet.....everyone is 6'3" and 225 lbs of pure badass.
But more importantly, the vast majority of us own and know how to use firearms. At least on this forum.
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  #60  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:42 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
What if the constitution is changed?
It is known as the amendment process. Anything else is unlawful and therefore invalid. As such it will not be recognized by the majority of the population. Aside from that there are higher laws than the US constitution. There is no way that these laws can ever be amended, compromised, or changed.

You either stand for this, or not.
Solid.
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  #61  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:46 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Regarding the Amendment Process for the U.S. Constitution.


There has only ever been ONE Constitutional Amendment Ratified and Enacted that "Removed" or "Prevented" American Citizens from doing something.

That was the 18th Amendment.


There is also only ONE Amendment that has ever been Repealed.

That was the 19th Amendment, and was Repealed by the 21st Amendment.

I've always thought that the reason the 18th Failed, and Failed Miserably, was that it was a case of "Them The Government" trying to exert Control over American Citizens and infringe upon their Freedoms.

The Ctrl-Left is, and in my opinion always has been about infringing upon the Freedoms of Americans and exerting Control so that they can Subjugate Citizens.
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  #62  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:48 PM
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There is the principle espoused in the DOI that mentions something....oh what was it?.....uhmmmm..... oh yeah, unalienable rights. Rights given to men by a higher power than man. Or natural rights if you prefer. Rights that NO MAN can take away. Unless of course a man allows it.
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  #63  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:49 PM
SpringerXD SpringerXD is online now
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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
Thank you for volunteering for prison or summary execution.

There may be millions of gun owners but the plan won't be to imprison the leaders because that creates martyrs. They'll grab regular joes, like me, imprison them, make their families homeless and that will discourage others.

Most of the cops who say, "I won't enforce the law" will be kicking in doors and shooting "resistors." They won't want to lose their job and benefits because they'll have this irrational desire to feed their families.

National Guard? Army? Same thing.

I won't make any heroic claims at this point because I don't know what will be happening.
You have greatly inspired me. Tomorrow, I'll go to the local Democratic headquarters, turn in my guns, and beg them to forgive me for owning such tools of destruction. On my way out, I'll happily shout "Hillary 2020!"

And pigs will also fly out of my nether region.

If you're serious in these things you're saying, please go and find a nice knitting board to join.
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  #64  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:05 PM
ButchA ButchA is online now
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M Yaworski,

I am trying and trying to see your point and/or what terrifying visions you are experiencing. The US Constitution is safe, believe me... Relax... Put on Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" and listen with headphones on. It might help!
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  #65  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:19 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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There is the principle espoused in the DOI that mentions something....oh what was it?.....uhmmmm..... oh yeah, unalienable rights. Rights given to men by a higher power than man. Or natural rights if you prefer. Rights that NO MAN can take away. Unless of course a man allows it.
This is where the Rubber Meets The Road. Thanks, McVay. Yes, UNALIENABLE RIGHTS - from a higher power than any Government. Which is why "Passing a Law", or "Changing the Constitution" does not and cannot change what is Right at all times and in All places. There is also a little thing about "The Consent of the Governed" that the leftists seem to not understand - they believe that "Might makes Right" - which is why the Founders left us Armed in the first place.... They knew "that kind of man" exists in all generations - and must be stopped.

Jefferson understood - and put in writing a Truth in the Universe - that ALL Men have the Divine Spark - a Soul - from their Creator, and that, as children of God, they have the right to be Free, to live their lives as THEY see fit, under HIS Law. And if Man's Law ever interferes with the Rights of Man, it must be made to conform - by Force, if necessary. Freedom is not optional, gentlemen. Without it, life is meaningless. The Nazis and Stalinists were "following the law" when they exterminated tens of Millions of innocent people. "I was only following orders" will not suffice in front of the Judgement Seat......

The Declaration of Independence was based on Universal Truths better understood by a bunch of very spiritual men who thought and ACTED on their understanding of their Duty to God and Man - which no Government can ever Legislate away. Even if Bernie Sanders was to rewrite the Constitution as a Commie Document, and get it passed - I am not bound to obey HIS VERSION - when I know it is wrong and against God's Law and The Rights of Man.

Let's recall the signed Statement of the Men who got this whole thing started for ALL OF US. From the Declaration of Independence - "and to support this Declaration, we mutually Pledge, Our Lives, Our Fortunes and Our Sacred Honor". The Founders put it all on the line for Human Dignity, Human Freedom and for Justice before the Judge of the Universe. They paid the price, in blood and treasure, to make men Free. Ponder that, as you decide what you would do, should it come down to a decision, right in front of you. Surrender to tyranny, compromise, hide - or STAND for the Right. your Choice. And you will be judged for your choice - in this life, or the next. Chose wisely. CC

PS - For those of you who do not believe in a Higher Power, well, I thing you should reconsider that carefully. Because without Him and His Law, nothing matters and it's just a dog fight, decided only by raw force. I don't believe that - there is Right and Wrong - and I sleep better understanding that - and my place in it all. CC
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  #66  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:28 PM
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Rock solid CC!
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  #67  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:02 AM
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I wish I would have waited for the 2016 election results before I bought all those bump stocks I had to destroy. Just saying.
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  #68  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:14 AM
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Note to self:
divert the gun funds to purchase a Tank and a good used Fully Loaded F4!!!
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  #69  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:15 AM
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When it gets to actual confiscation, the other side has at that point declared War on the Constitution and the Rights of Man and is no longer a legal government under Constitutional Authority - each participant in the confiscation is violating his Oath of Office and is acting illegally - no matter what laws they pass, nothing trumps the Constitution, period. This is never about controlling Crime - it's about Controlling American Citizens "for their own protection".
I've spoken with at least one retired LEO who loves the second amendment but ironically when I started talking about the BOR's as the law of the land he rebuffed me with "The STATES have the right to infringe on Federal law". I confidently asked him if the states could also limit the FIRST amendment, and he never answered me.
The states rights argument only makes sense for those willing to give in to those making such arguments IMO, and Mr. Yawarski is right I think, LEO's do whatever they are told to, many (Maybe not all) of them worship their authorities "word" and I mean that in the most degrading way possible, as in idolatry.

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So.....OP isn't buying any more guns unless Trump is re-elected???
Did I say that? I don't think I did.

But please let's use our reasoning to decide what we would do if one of the nutcases wins, OK?
You're going to bury your guns?

I understand the notion, but what good are all the guns doing for Freedom that are deep in the ground? FWIW I read that the marxist left has the technology to find our buried guns, radars that respond to specific lengths of steel for instance that can be mounted on helicopters and scan many square miles a day, and that can see many feet down through dirt.
Here in oregon the evil spawn of hell came up with a law that said the first attempt to hide guns will get a $1500 fine (Going from memory here) and the second would result in years in the state penitentiary (This law died a birthing, mercifully).

So you better not bury them on YOUR property nor give your unsuspecting neighbor a stretch in the pen by burying them on his.

Move to Idaho or one of the deepest of red states? I like it, and have spent many hours looking for a frigging vacant lot far from anyone to homestead off the grid, I'm having a darned hard time convincing the wife to leave everything we have spent our lives working for to go somewhere where she has no friends and a very long commute to visit family so that, in her way of thinking, so I can keep my guns!

You guys all doubtless understand that in the end it's not really about the guns. It's about losing the greatest nation God ever blessed anyone with, and why? Because the swamp creatures have risen from the slime over 60-80 years to overcome the entire context of the Constitution. They really do have the power at this point and President Trump even admits he had no idea how powerful the swamp is.

OK, my point with the last paragraphs is that even the "American Redoubt" has become a place lefties, who have soiled their own nests, are moving to in droves! Five years ago you could buy land, an acre or two, for a couple of thousand bucks, but those days are gone! The lefties have altered the balances of the law of supply and demand. Now if they were all conservatives I'd keep looking, and yes, leave my home and business here to move to a few acres to live like a hermit in Freedom. But the new people are asking conservative states to adopt leftists laws! So it begins to look like it's only a matter of time.
Yes, it really would be better to die quickly than to live as a slave IMO. If a bunch of "Swat" members overwhelms my home at 3 AM and shoots me 30 or 50 rounds it would be far better than dying a slow death by cancer or Alzheimers, or what ever the alternative is (Prison?).

From my perspective this world is not "idol" material, not worthy of worship, it's all temporary and God promised believers a home far better than we can even imagine, and noTHING nor any pleasures of this life are worth going against God, nor are they worthy of comparison to the Home to come. That brings up another related point;

How many times have I read or heard someone say "When they come for my guns I'll (Place awful brutality description here) them!"

So, if someone like my retired LEO friend mentioned above is too institutionalized to realize that joining the swat raid on my house is wrong to the core shall I take his life without trying to teach him otherwise? How will I face God on jugement day on that one?

HE may have things to answer for but eternity is a long time for regrets, too long for this child of God. (Actually this isn't scriptural as all my sins have been forgiven, which does NOT justify adding to them!)

OK, if you have followed the few dots in my ideology so far.

I don't know what to do, that is, what I can do that is likely to have any real potential for benefit to the current growing crises beyond funding those organizations that will take bad government to court, over and over as long as is needed.

In other words, a cold war against tyranny for as long as possible. I can buy my next gun and fondle it, maybe even keep it after the BOR's is destroyed in secret, maybe even go way out in the deep woods once or twice a year to shoot it, but that's all a bit like "Self manipulation" (Avoiding obvious bad terms) when I should be able to carry it anywhere I want to any time I want to and if need be defend my life with should the need arise.

Having hidden guns, buried guns, dreams of FREEDOM that cannot be realized, that's where many of the ideas I've heard lead. Killing others at the minimum leads to a poorly mustered civil war, and IF we think we need that eventual option it needs to be done with great deliberation and serious soul searching, and to be successful would definitely require structure and solidarity, which means a new congress of some kind, with arguments advancing or defeating options, ect, and a declaration made in public by this congress that warns the slime suckers to cease and desist in their anti-Constitutional efforts once and for all.

But for the time being we need a way to educate those sleeping in the warm bosom of leftiest lies what the truth really is, that is, what their rights do for them and how the second and first and other rights within the BOR's guarantees Liberty to them, (and I mean starting RIGHT NOW!) and also we need to empower the legal wizards to sue the states and the counties and the whole establishment that is opposed to the BOR's and the Constitution.
I really believe we need to study realistic but effective alternatives to violence, stressing as a large determined block of people that we do not want violence but feel we are being pushed towards it. That point needs to be made repeatedly and often in our discussions whether between ourselves or when arguing in public with some moron at the bar, everyone needs to understand that it's not us who is driving America to war.
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  #70  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:08 AM
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I forgot to mention that civil wars as with any other kind have a tendency to involve millions of citizens who were, like myself, reluctant to be involved in actually killing anyone. When it stops being a continuation of diplomacy by other means it usually requires that people suddenly take sides. I'm not kidding myself into believing it couldn't result in my own involvement in killing human beings, only that my personal morals are opposed to it.
The little I've read of the framer's words did seem to show me that they also were greatly reluctant to engage in carnage, and were likewise forced into it by circumstances.
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  #71  
Old 02-17-2020, 03:20 AM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Amen, partproduction - I don't know of anyone here who wants to be involved in violence or harming anyone. If it comes, if will because it was forced on normal, God fearing Americans who only asked that their Rights be respected, and they be free to live and worship as they choose. King George thought he could ignore those backward 'rubes, too. He got a surprise.

Given a choice to surrender to an evil agenda (and watch it destroy everything that matters anyway) some will choose to fight the evil - just as they did in 1776. Some will not. Such it has always been. Good vs. Evil started in the Garden - and it isn't going away until the Second Coming. But let's all pray for Peace, and start getting out our message - of Love and Freedom, starting close to home, but always advancing our ideas - so there will be only verbal conflict, ending in understanding and resolution! CC
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  #72  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:19 AM
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PS - For those of you who do not believe in a Higher Power, well, I thing you should reconsider that carefully. Because without Him and His Law, nothing matters and it's just a dog fight, decided only by raw force. I don't believe that - there is Right and Wrong - and I sleep better understanding that - and my place in it all. CC
Yes indeed, exactly...That is why Lefty wants to take God out of our society. Get enough people to believe there is No-God, then it will be even easier to get them to believe their are no inalienable rights. The Lefty "wins". The "state" owns people and people are only here to serve the state. Communism anyone?

Never too late to come back to God for those who have drifted away. Not only will it be good for you, but your belief in God will help fortify the country against evil (often manifested by the "Lefty").
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  #73  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:28 AM
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Separately, this war is not like 1776, yes there is always overlap with btwn any set of wars, but this war is much different. The Communist live here, they grew up here, they were born here (at least most of them). Although the precepts of the founding should always be kept fore-front, thinking we are going to use the same strategy and tactics as 1776 to win this war is non-productive. As much as we would like to dream, we can't eject 40-45% of the population who are hard core lefty to an island in the Caribbean sea...For the foreseeable future this will remain mostly a political war with possible violent skirmishes. But the war needs to be won politically or in the courts in the end.

Some decades from now, if we have a score of years run by Lefties in all branches and we turn into Venezuela, things might be different. But we have to think in the here and now in hopes to avoid this scenario.

Expand the Republican tent. File those law suits (POTUS has changed the judiciary by some 25% to the positive and will continue to do so over the next 6 years - this is going to matter very soon). Keep fortifying our political power (donate, write, march, but don't do anything stupid). Resist bad laws by forming sanctuary. Never start violence, but be ready to defend yourself and your God-Given rights.
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  #74  
Old 02-17-2020, 07:04 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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PS - For those of you who do not believe in a Higher Power, well, I thing you should reconsider that carefully. Because without Him and His Law, nothing matters and it's just a dog fight, decided only by raw force. I don't believe that - there is Right and Wrong - and I sleep better understanding that - and my place in it all. CC
It's not that easy. Though some are revisiting the subject again.

In the end it doesn't matter, as long as we understand why the bill of rights was written the way it was and that we all benefit from it.
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:50 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
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I in preparation have started selling "privately" to people I don't even know most of my guns so even if they should be confiscated I don't have them anymore or know where they are except for maybe a .22 and shotgun like Joe Biden suggested.

As an aside, as much as I hate getting old I fear for my children and grandchildren the way the USA seems to be going. I would have never believed and find it to be a fantasy. The machines taking over like in the Terminator would have seemed more plausible.

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