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  #26  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:12 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Yes he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.E. View Post
Didn't Forrest enter the war as a private?
This is correct.
  #27  
Old 02-09-2020, 04:52 AM
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For you Civil War Buffs, there is a great Civil War series on CSPAN3, Saturday's at 6:00 PM et or so. Set your DVR. I ran across these a few months ago and every episode is interesting, insightful, and administered by extremely knowledgeable, and articulate speakers...It is a lecture type format with some of the best Civil War experts in the USA giving the lectures, different people every week. All factual based from historical records of the time.

Since childhood, I've always loved the Civil war as just about the most dramatic war in American history. It is also considered by many as the first true "modern-war" based on its grand-scale, technology, use of rail-roads, and sadly mass-slaughter which in sheer #'s 620,000 American's died in the line of duty. (Compare that to the revolution, "only" 25,000 dead, and even WW2 405,000 dead, some 30% less than the Civil War)...

And even in this thread, one can observe the "wounds" haven't totally healed some 160 years later.


Simply mind-boggling that this all happened in our country proper not so long ago and on the same soil we stand on today.
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Last edited by combat auto; 02-09-2020 at 08:00 AM.
  #28  
Old 02-09-2020, 07:36 AM
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I have been a student of the war of northern aggression for a long time. And by the way, that's exactly what it was. The war was caused by an inept government and a president that had NO respect for the constitution or the citizens of the U.S. There were war crimes committed by both sides. The war was fought over secession and the southern states did have the right to secede from the union. Read the federalist papers. We should all be glad that Lincoln was able to keep the country together. We would be like Europe if he had lost. But we all must remember what your government will do to it's citizens. What our government did to it's citizens is like something that would happen in a 3rd world country, farms were seized and never returned or paid for. People were imprisoned for years and never charged with anything. Prisoners of war were shot without ever being charged with anything, just marched to a field and executed. The governor of the state of Missouri was chased from the capital at the beginning of the war because Missouri wanted to be neutral and Missouri was under marshal law for the remainder of the war. As a matter of fact, Gen.Lyon said that he would kill every man, woman and child in the state before he would allow Missouri to be neutral. Missouri was unique in that we weren't fighting for the south as much as against the invasion of the federal government.
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
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I have been a student of the war of northern aggression for a long time. And by the way, that's exactly what it was. The war was caused by an inept government and a president that had NO respect for the constitution or the citizens of the U.S. There were war crimes committed by both sides. The war was fought over secession and the southern states did have the right to secede from the union. Read the federalist papers. We should all be glad that Lincoln was able to keep the country together. We would be like Europe if he had lost. But we all must remember what your government will do to it's citizens. What our government did to it's citizens is like something that would happen in a 3rd world country, farms were seized and never returned or paid for. People were imprisoned for years and never charged with anything. Prisoners of war were shot without ever being charged with anything, just marched to a field and executed. The governor of the state of Missouri was chased from the capital at the beginning of the war because Missouri wanted to be neutral and Missouri was under marshal law for the remainder of the war. As a matter of fact, Gen.Lyon said that he would kill every man, woman and child in the state before he would allow Missouri to be neutral. Missouri was unique in that we weren't fighting for the south as much as against the invasion of the federal government.
From everything I've read, Missouri was a complete and utter mess. My family was in Texas County, I have a lot of newspaper reprints of that time. Much of my family enlisted and fought for the North, but quite a bit had moved to Texas (the state), and fought for the South.
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  #30  
Old 02-09-2020, 11:09 AM
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Well, since this thread revolves around
Sherman and his drive through Georgia
and South Carolina, let us remember
Col. George Eliphaz Spencer, who headed
Sherman's personal body guard regiment.
  #31  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:23 PM
glider glider is offline
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Sherman is buried at Bellefontaine Cemetery in St Louis. I have been there and there is usually a few cigars left at his grave for him. He lived in St Louis when he joined the union army and after the war.
  #32  
Old 02-09-2020, 03:45 PM
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All that I have read about Sherman was his memoirs, as well as the general (no pun) information I got in American History classes fifty plus years ago. Can anyone recommend a relatively unbiased book about him and/or his role in the first Civil War?
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Last edited by I12BFree; 02-09-2020 at 06:36 PM. Reason: replaced 'autobiography' with 'memoirs'
  #33  
Old 02-09-2020, 06:27 PM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/b...mcdonough.html


Sherman only lost 103 out of 60,000 troops between Atlanta and the Atlantic. Regardless of anyone's subjective feelings about the man he was a Helluva general. His order of 9 Nov. 1864 stated that where his troops were to be unmolested there would be no destruction of property. That's no different than Ghengis Khan or a Roman Emperor did. Lift a finger against Rome and....
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  #34  
Old 02-09-2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/b...mcdonough.html


Sherman only lost 103 out of 60,000 troops between Atlanta and the Atlantic. Regardless of anyone's subjective feelings about the man he was a Helluva general. His order of 9 Nov. 1864 stated that where his troops were to be unmolested there would be no destruction of property. That's no different than Ghengis Khan or a Roman Emperor did. Lift a finger against Rome and....
The order notwithstanding, the actions of his troops, sanctioned by him, were quite different. Those actions also violated the Lieber Accords, standing orders for the Union Army afield.
Was he a good, or even great general? That depends upon what metrics one uses to define good or great in this context. Did he accomplish his mission? Yep.Did he facilitate the end of the war? Absolute. Did he, through either direction or indifference, violate standing Union Army orders, and commit atrocities on a scale unseen un US history? Yes. Is the mesure of the greatness of a military commander judged on the outcome of the conflict, or the manner in which he (and his men) conducts himself in that conflict?
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  #35  
Old 02-09-2020, 08:17 PM
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Civil War is Hell, yet our survivors moved ahead and here we are with 50 Stars.
The worst of times, the best of times.
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  #36  
Old 02-09-2020, 09:16 PM
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Civil War is Hell, yet our survivors moved ahead and here we are with 50 Stars.
The worst of times, the best of times.
We have a winner. The war is long over and one would be hard pressed to argue in favor of legal slavery nowadays.
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  #37  
Old 02-09-2020, 09:38 PM
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HOW IS THIS GUN RELATED??????????


Sherman was pure evil. Anyone who can't see that is blind to the facts. The article linked was probably written by someone who thinks Hillary would have been a good President.
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  #38  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:37 AM
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We have to call a spade a spade....

If Sherman's army committed war crimes, he should have been prosecuted.

But by the same token, we have to acknowledge the main cause of the war - slavery...It was a war against an evil social-political-economic system run by Democrats in the South (at that time). And contrary to what the South argued in that day, "Constitution" and "states-right" as a justification, it was anything but that, quite the opposite when it comes to the constitution part of the argument...Ironically, the Evil-Democrat's today make the same argument to grab your guns: Constitution and state's rights...But we know better.

Hence, the Civil war was likely the most noble war ever fought by American's, even more so than WW2 (which gets all the attention as a noble war, and indeed was among the noble wars).

This all said, according to some sources, only 30% of southerner's owned slaves. So although the social-political-economic system of the OLD south was evil, I don't think that should be attributed to most of the Southerners at that time. (Analogues again to today, evil politicians in Lefty States, but often close to (but less than) half the citizens not supporting the evil ideology).

Additionally, the modern day attempt by today's Democrats to whip out the history of their evil-Democrat counterparts (who ran the Old-South) by knocking down statues of the C-War, if awful. To me, those statues do not represent the Evil-Democrat-Oligarchy who ran the place, but rather those statues represent the Noble Southern solder's who fought and died.

It is amazing and fun that we can connect these "dots" across time and space concerning the modality of the Evil-Democrats.
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Last edited by combat auto; 02-10-2020 at 07:59 AM.
  #39  
Old 02-10-2020, 08:48 AM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is offline
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I live in the Township of Sherman in Clark County, WI.

The town was founded by soldiers that fought under Sherman after the war. We have a plaque on the wall of the town hall that recognizes these men that fought in the Civil War and the men from the township that fought in every war after that.

It is a large plaque that has many names on it; some with stars that next to them signify that they were KIA.

From the perspective of the north Sherman was a great general that put an end to the war and brought their sons home alive. No matter how that was accomplished it is true.

For generations here in the north our children have been taught a diluted history of the Civil War that paints the north as righteous defenders of freedom and the enslaved. But that is not the truth and most here in the north know that story is an outright lie created by socialist educators to indoctrinate our children into their agenda.

The truth is that men from the north volunteered and fought in the Civil War to preserve the union. There were many that no doubt opposed slavery; but were they willing to lay their lives on the line for that opposition alone? No, it was much more than that.

Here is my take on the article the OP posted about Sherman. The idiots that want to destroy monuments that they decry as racist and celebratory of slavery do not have a clue as to why the Civil War was fought or who any of the men and women on either side were and their place in history.

All they see is a monument that is "racist". It could be a statue of General Lee or a statue of General Sherman. They cannot discern the North from the South; all are "racist". In their communist view any monument that recognizes any action or figure head from the Civil War is "racist".

I say let those that find the actions of Sherman criminal do so without reprimand. Let their voices be heard and recognized. But on the same note let those who think of Sherman as a leader that brought forth a level of brutality needed to secure the union do so without undue criticism.

Both opinions are justified and needed.

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.
  #40  
Old 02-10-2020, 09:11 AM
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We have a winner. The war is long over and one would be hard pressed to argue in favor of legal slavery nowadays.
It still exists but in a different form. Nowadays the American taxpayer is the slave on the Great Society Welfare Plantation whereby a percent of his earnings are transferred to the urban ghetto to fund the 80% out of wedlock rate, the habitual unemployment, the general dysfunction and the decimated public education system.
  #41  
Old 02-10-2020, 09:14 AM
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HOW IS THIS GUN RELATED??????????
I ask myself the same thing when we have a thread talking about dogs. I just don't shout it at those that take part in it.
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  #42  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:59 PM
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It was a different time. The Civil War involved a lot of hand to hand combat and bayonets. Lincoln's first objective was to save the Union. The issue of slavery served the purpose to motivate people into joining the army.
There were many atrosities on both sides. Trying to guess who was the worst is a waste of time.
These atrosities did not end when the South surrendered. In Missouri and Kansas it was wide open to anything goes. Murder and thief was unchecked. The result was the Younger Brothers, the Dalton Gang,Jesse James and such. They were prohibited to work so they robbed banks for income.Also there were a lot of Civil War sentiment in the Hatfield -McCoy fued that lasted into the 1880's.
My family goes back to Missouri and there are no records how and when many people died at that time.
  #43  
Old 02-10-2020, 06:00 PM
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The issue of slavery created a "moral" cause, regardless of what the actual factors of success were....
As for some of the absurd "statistics" being tossed about, if one thinks that 1/3 rd of the entier Southern population were slaveowners, one probably gets their "facts" on the 2A from presented by Biden, Clinton,, Bloomberg, Hogg et al....
According to the 1860 census, and basic arithmetic, less than 1.5% of the Southern population were were slaveholders. Even if we double that %, consideration a husband/ wife family unit as "owners", however academically ignorant and dishonest doing so is, we have 3% of "families".... rather a far cry from 30%+. However, truth doesn't feed the race baiting guilt machine....
The reason for such low ratios? Same reason for the war- money. Slaves were EXPENSE to aquire and maintain. In 1860, a healthy, male field slave in his mid 20s was worth about $800 dollars. For some perspective, that was more than the median home value at the time. Only something the very wealthy of the time could afford... they represented a huge investment, and a massive amount of wealth. There's a reason an entire industry developed around recovering runaways- the one mention of slavery in Southern secession, the North interfering with such recoveries.

Truth in history isn't taught in the public education system, and requires some study and a holistic approach if one desires to understand it.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:35 PM
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I read a Leftist article and it suggested that Southern slave owners were realizing that slavery was just too expensive and on it's way out by the end of the 1850s to the early 1860s. It was figured that it was cheaper just to rent labor via wages rather than house, vet, and feed slaves. The end of that kind of slavery was inevitable, yet there was the war. Since then, we have a new kind of slavery where the same kind of people who owned black slaves then now own taxpayers who pay for urban poverty plantations today that harvest Leftist votes.
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  #45  
Old 02-10-2020, 06:45 PM
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I read a Leftist article and it suggested that Southern slave owners were realizing that slavery was just too expensive and on it's way out by the end of the 1850s to the early 1860s. It was figured that it was cheaper just to rent labor via wages rather than house, vet, and feed slaves. The end of that kind of slavery was inevitable, yet there was the war. Since then, we have a new kind of slavery where the same kind of people who owned black slaves then now own taxpayers who pay for urban poverty plantations today that harvest Leftist votes.
While slave ownership was very expensive, it was also very profitable. Slaves produced more that hired help. They were "rented" to non owners at times. They reproduced, though the invesmet before return was substantial.
There's reams of financal analysis on costs, productivity, revenue- anything you can imagine- on antebellum Southern agriculture.

Thwt notwithstanding, as an institution, it was dying- because the growth of industrialization and innovation was developing mechanized implements that reduced the man pow needs.
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  #46  
Old 02-10-2020, 10:19 PM
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...The result was the Younger Brothers, the Dalton Gang,Jesse James and such. They were prohibited to work so they robbed banks for income.Also there were a lot of Civil War sentiment in the Hatfield -McCoy fued that lasted into the 1880's.
My family goes back to Missouri and there are no records how and when many people died at that time.
BS. Jesse James and his gang were murderous thieves!! Period!! 99,99% of Southern veterans returned home to lead normal lives and not thievery.
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  #47  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:09 AM
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I ask myself the same thing when we have a thread talking about dogs. I just don't shout it at those that take part in it.
While the dog thread wasn't gun related it wasn't filled with yankee propaganda pretending that a bloodthirsty murderer was a hero. Once again,

THIS THREAD ISN'T GUN RELATED. WHY IS IT STILL HERE????
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  #48  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:53 AM
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I'm an Illinois 'native' though my ancestors didn't arrive here from Poland until some 20 years after the great conflict ended..... so please don't blame MY kinfolk for the mess.

Personally, I feel the "South" got its revenge anytime I 'forgot' during 4 years of road trips down to Tampa and stopped at a Waffle House for an omelet and coffee. Couldn't make the next rest stop on the highway fast enough.

On a serious note, it is often said that history is written by the victors.
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  #49  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:21 AM
UncleEd UncleEd is offline
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Only one question in this whole discussion:

Do you wish the country had broken up or not?

If the answer is "yes," then would
individual states within the CSA have
the right to claim total sovereignty
and secede from the CSA?

Last edited by UncleEd; 02-11-2020 at 10:15 AM.
  #50  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:25 AM
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