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  #1  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:42 PM
condition_2 condition_2 is offline
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Students with disabilities

I had my first student with a physical disability when I hosted a Basic Pistol class recently. This person could stand, but for a very limited time and needed to lean against the bench/table to steady themselves. This class ranged in age 27 to 71. Obviously, I want to make sure Iím not making them feel different but you have to make some adjustments for them. I think everything went ok, especially since the class evaluation had high marks returned from everyone. Anybody else have any students that required assistance and how did you do?
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2020, 12:31 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Majority of classes these days seem to be focused on high speed quasi special forces training handbooks bought from the back of "mercenary today" or "modern survivor".

Basic pistol is about teaching how to actually shoot. That means standing or sitting and hitting the target.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:06 PM
Oldguy9 Oldguy9 is offline
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I Don't Understand Your Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
Majority of classes these days seem to be focused on high speed quasi special forces training handbooks bought from the back of "mercenary today" or "modern survivor".

Basic pistol is about teaching how to actually shoot. That means standing or sitting and hitting the target.
The OP asked if anyone else experienced a student with a disability. Are you saying only physically fit people take defensive instruction?

I certainly hope that is not true-who needs defensive training more- a recent college quarterback or a 60 year old woman with arthritis? I would think the later.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:14 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Originally Posted by Oldguy9 View Post
The OP asked if anyone else experienced a student with a disability. Are you saying only physically fit people take defensive instruction?

I certainly hope that is not true-who needs defensive training more- a recent college quarterback or a 60 year old woman with arthritis? I would think the later.
MOST classes, wether its a basic introduction to shooting, or a carry permit class, 99% are set up specifically for people who can stand, run, jump, and things that handicappers cant do.

Here in my own state, I have seen the training over view for carry permit classes that required students to complete "basic" situational shooting techniques like crawling under a table while shooting at a target. And running across open field/parking lot while shooting at a target.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:50 PM
Oldguy9 Oldguy9 is offline
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Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
MOST classes, wether its a basic introduction to shooting, or a carry permit class, 99% are set up specifically for people who can stand, run, jump, and things that handicappers cant do.

Here in my own state, I have seen the training over view for carry permit classes that required students to complete "basic" situational shooting techniques like crawling under a table while shooting at a target. And running across open field/parking lot while shooting at a target.
Well...if that's true..the defensive gun community would do well to rethink training.That would attract the more vulnerable among us. Precisely the ones with the greatest need. (Excluding of course, those whose jobs take them in harm's way regularly.)
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2020, 04:04 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy9 View Post
The OP asked if anyone else experienced a student with a disability. Are you saying only physically fit people take defensive instruction?

I certainly hope that is not true-who needs defensive training more- a recent college quarterback or a 60 year old woman with arthritis? I would think the later.
MOST classes, wether its a basic introduction to shooting, or a carry permit class, 99% are set up specifically for people who can stand, run, jump, and things that handicappers cant do.

Here in my own state, I have seen the training over view for carry permit classes that required students to complete "basic" situational shooting techniques like crawling under a table while shooting at a target. And running across open field/parking lot while shooting at a target.
Anyone having students crawl under tables, while calling it ‘basic’ anything is more into themselves and being ‘enter-trainers’ than good instructors.......

Back to the OP. Yes, I’ve done it a few times over many years. Aside from making sure everything I might ask them to do being safe (think stability and holsters if those apply), we’re off to the races.

It’s the instructors job to work with the limitations the student has, rather than the other way around for any sort of basic course. That’s where you learn to operate the gun, related equipment, and learn the fundamentals of shooting.

We can play commando, and shoot from our chute harness later.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2020, 05:14 PM
OttoLoader OttoLoader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy9 View Post
Well...if that's true..the defensive gun community would do well to rethink training.That would attract the more vulnerable among us. Precisely the ones with the greatest need. (Excluding of course, those whose jobs take them in harm's way regularly.)
I have yet to find a course directed to those with physical limitations.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2020, 08:58 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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It is up to the instructor to adapt!

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Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Anyone having students crawl under tables, while calling it Ďbasicí anything is more into themselves and being Ďenter-trainersí than good instructors.......

Back to the OP. Yes, Iíve done it a few times over many years. Aside from making sure everything I might ask them to do being safe (think stability and holsters if those apply), weíre off to the races.

Itís the instructors job to work with the limitations the student has, rather than the other way around for any sort of basic course. Thatís where you learn to operate the gun, related equipment, and learn the fundamentals of shooting.

We can play commando, and shoot from our chute harness later.
Yes, the training group I used to be associated with encourages all ages and abilities and were committed to safety and everyone's success! Our application asked if anyone has "special needs" to speak with the director in advance for accommodation needs.

I have no idea what planet "Pocketshaver" is from!

All the best in 2020,
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:27 PM
condition_2 condition_2 is offline
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This person is now going to take my concealed class so I 'm sure I'll have to tailor a few range stages to their limitations. They had a walker that had a seat so I'm sure we'll use that instead of the kneeling stage. I definitely agree you have to work with the student to make them feel comfortable with what they are doing, safely (for them and the rest of us on the range). I would never try to dissuade anybody from learning how to shoot. Now, what type of firearm, that's another subject... LOL
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:48 PM
Doctor481 Doctor481 is online now
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Several years ago, when we were required to have annual advanced training for church carry, we had a lady in a wheelchair. From memory she shot with us 2 years. We warned the instructors when we were setting up the class.
She was the only female at the class and was initially bashful. The instructors didnít really do anything different for her, only all of her shooting was seated.
She ended up outshooting most of the guys .
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Old 01-12-2020, 03:08 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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I am an Army veteran (33+ years of service) retired as 100% disabled. Now all of us vets know that does not necessarily mean that I am confined to a wheel chair or walker, but I do have limitations. I am a Gunsite grad as well as having the benefit of some more advance military training beyond the basic stuff that most do year after year (Macridge Road/Range 37 at Bragg, etc). All of that said, I have been concerned with my reduced abilites due to my injuries and normal aging. Enough so that I contacted one of the nationally known trainers (that has occasionally posted on this forum). I got crickets for a reply.....

Now I am better off than many if not most disabled/aged folks, so I am not in as much need of alternatives to the norms as they are. I am convinced that the time to deal with that stuff is now, not later. I guess the trainers are working the most profitable clientele and view the market for disabled/handicapped/aged as not worth their trouble.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:40 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
Yes, the training group I used to be associated with encourages all ages and abilities and were committed to safety and everyone's success! Our application asked if anyone has "special needs" to speak with the director in advance for accommodation needs.

I have no idea what planet "Pocketshaver" is from!

All the best in 2020,
Im from Michigan. And the classes I referenced were located in Michigan.

Wanting people to complete shooting events in order to get a CPL or even to learn BASIC GUN SKILLS , that are based on training standards for Green Berets and Navy Seals is rather farfetched of an idea.

No state mandates a person be required to swing on a rope for 5 minutes, or run across an open field before shooting at a target. So how do the little training classes get away with that ****?
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:20 AM
condition_2 condition_2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor481 View Post
Several years ago, when we were required to have annual advanced training for church carry, we had a lady in a wheelchair. From memory she shot with us 2 years. We warned the instructors when we were setting up the class.
She was the only female at the class and was initially bashful. The instructors didnít really do anything different for her, only all of her shooting was seated.
She ended up outshooting most of the guys .
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:27 AM
condition_2 condition_2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
I am an Army veteran (33+ years of service) retired as 100% disabled. Now all of us vets know that does not necessarily mean that I am confined to a wheel chair or walker, but I do have limitations. I am a Gunsite grad as well as having the benefit of some more advance military training beyond the basic stuff that most do year after year (Macridge Road/Range 37 at Bragg, etc). All of that said, I have been concerned with my reduced abilites due to my injuries and normal aging. Enough so that I contacted one of the nationally known trainers (that has occasionally posted on this forum). I got crickets for a reply.....

Now I am better off than many if not most disabled/aged folks, so I am not in as much need of alternatives to the norms as they are. I am convinced that the time to deal with that stuff is now, not later. I guess the trainers are working the most profitable clientele and view the market for disabled/handicapped/aged as not worth their trouble.

Good on you for being proactive, I truly hope you find the training that you are looking for. And, thanks for your service.
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:50 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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One thing that I am specifically concerned with is the disparity of force issue. It does not come up much in discussions when the perp and good guy are somewhat equally matched. My concern is with those in poor health who may not be able to withstand a few punches from a bad guy, thereby needing to go to gun when a health person would not. No one that I am aware of addresses this in training.
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