ACW and Hard fit - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:42 PM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago Area Western Suburbs
Posts: 5,451
ACW and Hard fit

Rob on You tube .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqyS...ature=youtu.be
__________________
Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-24-2019, 07:10 AM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,785
Now...this was done on one take and doesn't really begin to address the real details. I hope to do a more thorough video soon.
__________________
ACW Pistols in stock at www.migunslingers.com Blued Steel and Sex Appeal
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-24-2019, 07:16 AM
apipeguy's Avatar
apipeguy apipeguy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Michigan
Age: 64
Posts: 4,950
Enjoyed watching the video yesterday and very much look forward to the more detailed version.
__________________
David

NRA Patron Life Member
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 09-24-2019, 07:46 AM
combat auto's Avatar
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,672
Nice stuff, yes more vid's greatly appreciated... Maintain consistence btwn the relationship of the sight's and the bore axis. Makes sense...Although I am guessing that a nicely fitted slide to frame adds some value to accuracy, it pails in importance vs the barrel to slide fit...I would also guess the arrangement of a barrel mounted front sight (which one can find from a small handful of manufacturer's, option-able on an Infinity, and is also standard on a model or two of STI's), would also help the cause of maintain consistency btwn the bore-axis and the sight - can't get any more consistent - at least for the front sight anyway.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 09-24-2019 at 07:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-24-2019, 09:08 AM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,785
You kinda sound like Chris Costa with that front sight stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Nice stuff, yes more vid's greatly appreciated... Maintain consistence btwn the relationship of the sight's and the bore axis. Makes sense...Although I am guessing that a nicely fitted slide to frame adds some value to accuracy, it pails in importance vs the barrel to slide fit...I would also guess the arrangement of a barrel mounted front sight (which one can find from a small handful of manufacturer's, option-able on an Infinity, and is also standard on a model or two of STI's), would also help the cause of maintain consistency btwn the bore-axis and the sight - can't get any more consistent - at least for the front sight anyway.
__________________
ACW Pistols in stock at www.migunslingers.com Blued Steel and Sex Appeal
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2019, 09:33 AM
combat auto's Avatar
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
You kinda sound like Chris Costa with that front sight stuff.
Yep, that is his signature on my STI...
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-18-2019, 09:02 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 3,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy1911 View Post


__________________
Proud to be a Deplorable.....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-18-2019, 10:01 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,158
Does anybody soft fit any more?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-18-2019, 01:03 PM
SW CQB 45 SW CQB 45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Victoria, Tx
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Does anybody soft fit any more?
this is what ACW told me on an email a few months back....

You can specify your barrel fit. Standard, semi hard fit, or hard fit. I would recommend semi-hard fit on our guns. It'll be super accurate and easy to break in and manipulate.

I am assuming Standard might be considered soft fit.

Kid in college is the only reason I have not gotten one.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-18-2019, 01:40 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,158
Soft fit is what DWM did to Lugers. Soft fit, heat treat, hard fit.
I figure most places use pre-hardened stock these days, so the term is probably obsolete.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-22-2019, 02:03 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
this is what ACW told me on an email a few months back....

You can specify your barrel fit. Standard, semi hard fit, or hard fit. I would recommend semi-hard fit on our guns. It'll be super accurate and easy to break in and manipulate.
Would really like to hear Rob elaborate on these three levels...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:21 PM
cbrussell cbrussell is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14
I second that!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:56 PM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,785
You want a video?

Standard fit- No perceivable lockup at all. The slide operates easily but there still SHOULD be contact between both lower barrel lugs and the slide stop pin in battery. This isn't always the case though.

Semi Hard Fit- When you slowly close your slide, there can be a slight perception of your lower barrel lugs sliding over the slide stop pin into battery. This is a pretty nice condition to have. It's probably the way I would fit every barrel if I had my druthers. It yields nice accuracy and is easy for the end user to manipulate.

Standard Hard Fit- I reserve this for pistols that I have attached a guarantee of accuracy to. All of our accuracy guarantee pistols will be hard fit. The fit of the lower lugs to the slide stop pin is so tight that it takes extra effort to break the action. I do tend to hard fit to a lesser extent with a stainless barrel than I do with a carbon steel (Kart) barrel. Believe it or not, there are degrees of hard fit and some other secret techniques that go into purpose built pistols for Bullseye competition. Below is the most extreme level of hard fit that I do.

I'm going to share a very top secret bullseye trick here. I know this is going to seem a bit weird but I have mentioned in the past that I have some different tricks when it comes to attaining ultimate accuracy and often times receive some hate for not coughing up the goods. So, here's the goods.

It starts with fitting the hood. I will overcut the hood length slightly. Meaning, I cut the hood short so that it doesn't contact the breech face. I will then fit the lower lugs to the pistol very hard. I link the barrel and then break the fit in with full power ball ammunition and standard springs. (also proprietary lubrication) Once I'm happy with the lower lug break in, I will come back to the bench, weld up the barrel hood and file fit it for full contact. I use soot from a candle for marking my parts for fitting. When it comes to upper lugs and hood fits, it's the best method for marking your parts. Permanent marker is far too durable to reveal impact as opposed to abrasion. A gun fit in this manner should be able to deliver sub 1" groups out of a rest at 50 yards but it's not for everyone. Chambering such a barrel is also a super secret act. I need to have a sample of the actual ammunition you'll be using and you can't deviate when it comes to dimensions on your brass. Bullseye is all about splitting every hair you can and it's also about the shooter's confidence in the tool he's using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
Would really like to hear Rob elaborate on these three levels...
__________________
ACW Pistols in stock at www.migunslingers.com Blued Steel and Sex Appeal
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:48 PM
woodlands747 woodlands747 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
You want a video?

Standard fit- No perceivable lockup at all. The slide operates easily but there still SHOULD be contact between both lower barrel lugs and the slide stop pin in battery. This isn't always the case though.

Semi Hard Fit- When you slowly close your slide, there can be a slight perception of your lower barrel lugs sliding over the slide stop pin into battery. This is a pretty nice condition to have. It's probably the way I would fit every barrel if I had my druthers. It yields nice accuracy and is easy for the end user to manipulate.

Standard Hard Fit- I reserve this for pistols that I have attached a guarantee of accuracy to. All of our accuracy guarantee pistols will be hard fit. The fit of the lower lugs to the slide stop pin is so tight that it takes extra effort to break the action. I do tend to hard fit to a lesser extent with a stainless barrel than I do with a carbon steel (Kart) barrel. Believe it or not, there are degrees of hard fit and some other secret techniques that go into purpose built pistols for Bullseye competition. Below is the most extreme level of hard fit that I do.

I'm going to share a very top secret bullseye trick here. I know this is going to seem a bit weird but I have mentioned in the past that I have some different tricks when it comes to attaining ultimate accuracy and often times receive some hate for not coughing up the goods. So, here's the goods.

It starts with fitting the hood. I will overcut the hood length slightly. Meaning, I cut the hood short so that it doesn't contact the breech face. I will then fit the lower lugs to the pistol very hard. I link the barrel and then break the fit in with full power ball ammunition and standard springs. (also proprietary lubrication) Once I'm happy with the lower lug break in, I will come back to the bench, weld up the barrel hood and file fit it for full contact. I use soot from a candle for marking my parts for fitting. When it comes to upper lugs and hood fits, it's the best method for marking your parts. Permanent marker is far too durable to reveal impact as opposed to abrasion. A gun fit in this manner should be able to deliver sub 1" groups out of a rest at 50 yards but it's not for everyone. Chambering such a barrel is also a super secret act. I need to have a sample of the actual ammunition you'll be using and you can't deviate when it comes to dimensions on your brass. Bullseye is all about splitting every hair you can and it's also about the shooter's confidence in the tool he's using.
Yes it really is Rocket Science. Not for us amateurs.
Good stuff Rob.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:52 PM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
You want a video?

Standard fit- No perceivable lockup at all. The slide operates easily but there still SHOULD be contact between both lower barrel lugs and the slide stop pin in battery. This isn't always the case though.

Semi Hard Fit- When you slowly close your slide, there can be a slight perception of your lower barrel lugs sliding over the slide stop pin into battery. This is a pretty nice condition to have. It's probably the way I would fit every barrel if I had my druthers. It yields nice accuracy and is easy for the end user to manipulate.

Standard Hard Fit- I reserve this for pistols that I have attached a guarantee of accuracy to. All of our accuracy guarantee pistols will be hard fit. The fit of the lower lugs to the slide stop pin is so tight that it takes extra effort to break the action. I do tend to hard fit to a lesser extent with a stainless barrel than I do with a carbon steel (Kart) barrel. Believe it or not, there are degrees of hard fit and some other secret techniques that go into purpose built pistols for Bullseye competition. Below is the most extreme level of hard fit that I do.

I'm going to share a very top secret bullseye trick here. I know this is going to seem a bit weird but I have mentioned in the past that I have some different tricks when it comes to attaining ultimate accuracy and often times receive some hate for not coughing up the goods. So, here's the goods.

It starts with fitting the hood. I will overcut the hood length slightly. Meaning, I cut the hood short so that it doesn't contact the breech face. I will then fit the lower lugs to the pistol very hard. I link the barrel and then break the fit in with full power ball ammunition and standard springs. (also proprietary lubrication) Once I'm happy with the lower lug break in, I will come back to the bench, weld up the barrel hood and file fit it for full contact. I use soot from a candle for marking my parts for fitting. When it comes to upper lugs and hood fits, it's the best method for marking your parts. Permanent marker is far too durable to reveal impact as opposed to abrasion. A gun fit in this manner should be able to deliver sub 1" groups out of a rest at 50 yards but it's not for everyone. Chambering such a barrel is also a super secret act. I need to have a sample of the actual ammunition you'll be using and you can't deviate when it comes to dimensions on your brass. Bullseye is all about splitting every hair you can and it's also about the shooter's confidence in the tool he's using.
That makes sense, appreciate the insights! May need myself one of them BE guns soon enough. W single safety in hard chrome....how nice it would be...I am looking forward to the shot show, at least I now know what I am looking at.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:18 AM
PA shooter PA shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 55
Semi-hard fit is on 1.5"@25yd guns

Standard hard fit on 1"@25 Correct?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:49 AM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
You want a video?

Standard fit...
First things first: Rob, we love you.

Second: You mean that follow-up video you promised where you talk more about barrel fitting? Yes, please. If possible, could you set it in a nice Italian restaurant over a candlelit dinner, where you talk directly to the camera about lugs and hoods and measurements in the tens of thousandths while romantic music plays?

Seriously, thank you for the reply. I'm getting an ACW -- this is a fait accompli. Classic Carry. I've held out just a little to see if a compact compatible magwell might be in the offing so I could create a Classic Carry CCO with magwell.

But which barrel fit/accuracy guarantee has been the big question. This will be a do-everything gun: nightstand, carry, training and range fun. Peak reliability, durability, shootability and accuracy wanted.

I don't shoot bullseye. I know I don't need the pinnacle of barrel fitting to serve my purposes. But unless it might actually work at cross-purposes to my intended use, I just really like the idea of having maximally ideal barrel fit, and done the way you describe, it sounds like it lifts all boats -- accuracy, reliability, repeatability, durability, softer shooting, no?

You reserve standard hard fit for all the pistols you have attached an accuracy guarantee to; all ACWs have an accuracy guarantee -- either better than 1.5" or better than 1" at 25 yards. Does this mean all get some version of your standard hard fit?

What do you recommend for different applications? And for someone happy to pay for your best fit, is there any reason not to for a do-everything gun?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:21 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
I'm going to share a very top secret bullseye trick here. I know this is going to seem a bit weird but I have mentioned in the past that I have some different tricks when it comes to attaining ultimate accuracy and often times receive some hate for not coughing up the goods. So, here's the goods.

It starts with fitting the hood. I will overcut the hood length slightly. Meaning, I cut the hood short so that it doesn't contact the breech face. I will then fit the lower lugs to the pistol very hard. I link the barrel and then break the fit in with full power ball ammunition and standard springs. (also proprietary lubrication) Once I'm happy with the lower lug break in, I will come back to the bench, weld up the barrel hood and file fit it for full contact. I use soot from a candle for marking my parts for fitting. When it comes to upper lugs and hood fits, it's the best method for marking your parts. Permanent marker is far too durable to reveal impact as opposed to abrasion. A gun fit in this manner should be able to deliver sub 1" groups out of a rest at 50 yards but it's not for everyone. Chambering such a barrel is also a super secret act. I need to have a sample of the actual ammunition you'll be using and you can't deviate when it comes to dimensions on your brass. Bullseye is all about splitting every hair you can and it's also about the shooter's confidence in the tool he's using.
A lot goes into a Bullseye pistol that many of us, myself included don't understand and thankfully, don't have to worry about as shooters.

For a Bullseye pistol can you expand on the "Better than 1" at 25 yds" guarantee. Is that 10 shots at 50 yards, or something else, and what is the maximum group size?
Also, can you request a specific trigger pull, 3.5 or 4.0 depending on NRA or CMP use?

Appreciate the time,
J
__________________
Distinguished Pistol #388

Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 12-23-2019 at 04:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:27 AM
Tensaw Tensaw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Rural area in south Alabama
Age: 66
Posts: 126
Looking at the standard features of the Prime Elite on the ACW website, it shows an accuracy guarantee of 1.5 inches at 25 yards. Would this mean that the PE is standard hard fit?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:46 AM
gun_fan111 gun_fan111 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA shooter View Post
Semi-hard fit is on 1.5"@25yd guns



Standard hard fit on 1"@25 Correct?


This would be my guess too. What Rob describes as a Standard Fit (not hard) sounds a lot more like my STI than my ACW
__________________
NRA Life member
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-23-2019, 12:48 PM
Whiten Whiten is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: upstate SC
Posts: 475
This is target from #016 Prime, I don't own this pistol just posting the only target I've seen.

8 rounds @15yds
Attached Thumbnails
ACW Prime #016.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:06 AM
Buccaneer12 Buccaneer12 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 85
Impressive. Thanks for sharing the knowledge. Looking forward to my prime elite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
You want a video? [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif[/IMG]

Standard fit- No perceivable lockup at all. The slide operates easily but there still SHOULD be contact between both lower barrel lugs and the slide stop pin in battery. This isn't always the case though.

Semi Hard Fit- When you slowly close your slide, there can be a slight perception of your lower barrel lugs sliding over the slide stop pin into battery. This is a pretty nice condition to have. It's probably the way I would fit every barrel if I had my druthers. It yields nice accuracy and is easy for the end user to manipulate.

Standard Hard Fit- I reserve this for pistols that I have attached a guarantee of accuracy to. All of our accuracy guarantee pistols will be hard fit. The fit of the lower lugs to the slide stop pin is so tight that it takes extra effort to break the action. I do tend to hard fit to a lesser extent with a stainless barrel than I do with a carbon steel (Kart) barrel. Believe it or not, there are degrees of hard fit and some other secret techniques that go into purpose built pistols for Bullseye competition. Below is the most extreme level of hard fit that I do.

I'm going to share a very top secret bullseye trick here. I know this is going to seem a bit weird but I have mentioned in the past that I have some different tricks when it comes to attaining ultimate accuracy and often times receive some hate for not coughing up the goods. So, here's the goods.

It starts with fitting the hood. I will overcut the hood length slightly. Meaning, I cut the hood short so that it doesn't contact the breech face. I will then fit the lower lugs to the pistol very hard. I link the barrel and then break the fit in with full power ball ammunition and standard springs. (also proprietary lubrication) Once I'm happy with the lower lug break in, I will come back to the bench, weld up the barrel hood and file fit it for full contact. I use soot from a candle for marking my parts for fitting. When it comes to upper lugs and hood fits, it's the best method for marking your parts. Permanent marker is far too durable to reveal impact as opposed to abrasion. A gun fit in this manner should be able to deliver sub 1" groups out of a rest at 50 yards but it's not for everyone. Chambering such a barrel is also a super secret act. I need to have a sample of the actual ammunition you'll be using and you can't deviate when it comes to dimensions on your brass. Bullseye is all about splitting every hair you can and it's also about the shooter's confidence in the tool he's using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
Would really like to hear Rob elaborate on these three levels...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-11-2020, 11:17 AM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belcamp, Maryland, USA
Posts: 7,804
AC, those kinds of posts (barrel fit) have substance which one can sink their teeth into. Thank you for that.
__________________
The modern production 1911 - high visibility sights, beavertail grip safety, aluminum trigger, good trigger pull, enhanced slide/ frame fit, accurized barrel/bushing fit. If it’s not a Kimber, it’s a copy.

Last edited by Magnumite; 01-11-2020 at 06:50 PM. Reason: grammar. Honest, I wasn’t drinking
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:33 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnumite View Post
AC, those kinds of posts (barrel fit) have substance and are a cognitive one can sink tgeir teeth into. Thank you for that.
Completely agreed. Rob's willingness to openly talk shop and get specific adds credibility to credibility for ACW, the company and the product.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:43 AM
Sr. Oso Sr. Oso is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 162
In this, the beginning of my 60th year, I just placed an order for a Alchemy Prime Elite with the extra accuracy option (as well as a hard-chromed frame and blued slide). Looking forward to June now more than ever.
__________________
The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says "go away" in any language - Clint Smith
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved