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  #26  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:43 AM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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has anyone found a decent video of .44spl hollow point fired into ballistic gel from a 3" bbl Charter Arms Bulldog? I've found a few for a 3.25" bbl officers sized 45acp but nothing for a short bbl 44spl.
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  #27  
Old 09-26-2019, 07:50 PM
Che Che is offline
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I don't think anyone is poo pooing 45 acp hollow points, but some 1911s are finicky with hollow points and only certain ones work for some.
Finicky 1911s are so 1979.

Any quality 1911 built in the last 30 years will function with JHPs. JMHO after shooting 1911s for 50+ years.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2019, 06:03 PM
groo01 groo01 is offline
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Groo here
The orginal selling point was the Hp reduces blow through and bullets skiping off roads
or hard walls, Per Supervel [the first hp hiperformance ammo]
Don't count on energy "dump" as not that much is dumped...
1/2 of the energy is applied to the bullet the rest to the target//
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2019, 06:25 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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I have a related NEWB question. Is there a downside to carrying quality 230 FMJ for defense?

At .45, do you really need expansion? PD Ammo is soooo expensive (for me) that practicing with it is...well not going to happen very often. This would lead me to worrying about reliability in any given gun because I can't afford to put 500 $1 rounds through each of my .45s.
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:10 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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You could do a lot worse than carry .45 ball for defense. Just remember though that most stuff on the market is cheap range practice ammo and isn't up to the quality standards of expensive premium defense ammo. Remington was the last company I knew of making a premium FMJ load in .45, but they may have finally stopped offering it. Of the low-cost brands out there probably the two I'd trust for defense would be Sellier & Bellot and PMC. Definitely NOT Wolf or Winchester White Box!
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  #31  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:15 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
You could do a lot worse than carry .45 ball for defense. Just remember though that most stuff on the market is cheap range practice ammo and isn't up to the quality standards of expensive premium defense ammo. Remington was the last company I knew of making a premium FMJ load in .45, but they may have finally stopped offering it. Of the low-cost brands out there probably the two I'd trust for defense would be Sellier & Bellot and PMC. Definitely NOT Wolf or Winchester White Box!
Thanks for the tip. I'll try some PMC (I can get it locally).
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  #32  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:42 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is online now
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I like Rem Golden Saber 230gr HP .45acp. But would be at ease with .45acp 230gr ball too!
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  #33  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:59 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
You could do a lot worse than carry .45 ball for defense. Just remember though that most stuff on the market is cheap range practice ammo and isn't up to the quality standards of expensive premium defense ammo. Remington was the last company I knew of making a premium FMJ load in .45, but they may have finally stopped offering it. Of the low-cost brands out there probably the two I'd trust for defense would be Sellier & Bellot and PMC. Definitely NOT Wolf or Winchester White Box!
I understand Wolf as I've had one dud with this brand in this caliber, but why not WWB? This is probably the best target fodder I've ever used in 9mm, .45 acp, and .32 acp.
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  #34  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:41 PM
mdell49 mdell49 is offline
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My time in LE dates back to 1975. I carried a 1911 for several years beginning in 1976. 7 round mags two spare on my Sam Browne. The mags were loaded with RP 230 gr Ball. I didn't worry about it then and don't loose any sleep over it today. I'm just an old curmudgeon. I was lucky and found a weapon that I am very happy with 40+ years ago. I still carry one daily to this day. I firmly believe that if you place a couple of those 230gr pills in the boiler room the fights over. I've often said here as well as other forums that what one chooses to carry for SD and load it with is only surpassed by who he chooses for his spouse. Very PERSONAL
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  #35  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I understand Wolf as I've had one dud with this brand in this caliber, but why not WWB? This is probably the best target fodder I've ever used in 9mm, .45 acp, and .32 acp.
It's good stuff when the QC is there, but I've personally seen some very poorly assembled rounds with crushed case mouths, and once even with the rim not even machined on the case! Others have shared similar horror stories (like backwards primers) so I'm not going to recommend it purely based on lax quality control.
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  #36  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:47 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Seems like it gets worse each day with them. Run a box through a chrony. Iím not even saying compare two different boxes. Just one, same box, you will easily find over 100 FPS deviation in velocity. Now, you want a circus, grab ya a Mega Pack of UMC! Itís kinda like Cracker Jack, you never know what youíll find inside.
VERY solid advice to seek out the PMC. It is a far better product!!
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  #37  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:09 PM
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FWIW I have also seen a fair deal of gunshot victims...some by the hands of others and some self inflicted. Good HPs performed as predicted dumping their energy in the body, with the exception of a self inflicted shot to the right temple. went through and into books on a shelf by his chair. It was the original black Talon in 9mm, fully expanded. I observed a guy shot in the forehead through the peephole on his door. he was sitting calmly in a chair with a small dot in his forehead that was slightly oozy. It was a 25 auto fmj that skimmed the outside of his skull and was a lump under his scalp just above his right ear. On the other hand several times with 9,40 and 45 with ball we had pass through with light barriers penetrated(walls, dresser and other light furniture. WE also had a guy shoot a burglar with a 180 gun hydra-shock in 40 SW. killed the first burglar, passing through him and into his partner in crime, shattering his shoulder joint. bullet showed little expansion and had carhart jacket(heavy cotton duck) stuck in the HP cavity. GD,HST and Winny Ranger have all been solid in the 9-40-45. We shoot a lot of injured deer as well...nothing like an adrenaline stoked deer trying to run on two snapped back legs to test how good a bullet performs.!!!! We had a drive by where the guy in from had an AK and shot through one intended victim inside his house before exiting the rear and.....wait for it....killing a fellow drive by participant blocking the rear with a 9mm....he was quickly determined to be ART!!!
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Last edited by ECHO154; 10-03-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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  #38  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:40 PM
JB6464 JB6464 is online now
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For SD solid rounds I use Speer Lawman Flat Nose TMJ ammo in either 200gr or 230gr .
Flat nose bullets is better for SD than round nose FMJ , you get bone crushing penetration , not just a bullet that pushes the tissue away as it enters like round nose bullets do .
I also find Speer ammo shoots clean and accurate through any of my 1911's and it's priced right .

Last edited by JB6464; 10-03-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:22 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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Originally Posted by JB6464 View Post
For SD solid rounds I use Speer Lawman Flat Nose TMJ ammo in either 200gr or 230gr .
Flat nose bullets is better for SD than round nose FMJ , you get bone crushing penetration , not just a bullet that pushes the tissue away as it enters like round nose bullets do .
I also find Speer ammo shoots clean and accurate through any of my 1911's and it's priced right .
I find these types of comments a bit humorous. "bone crushing" penetration is something unique to flat nose fmj but not round nose fmj? all the on-line clear gel tests I've seen show little to no difference between the same loadings when using round nose or flat nose in .45acp. do you have some data to support something different? thank you.
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  #40  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:49 PM
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ECHO154 ECHO154 is offline
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I still have 2000 rnds of Lake City military match ball (230) for the 1911...it is accurate and hard hitting but it blows through mid sized to large deer on side shots.It is devastating on head on shots to the melon. Absolutely reliable, but then so is everything I shoot in my Nighthawk and Wilson.
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  #41  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:21 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I find these types of comments a bit humorous. "bone crushing" penetration is something unique to flat nose fmj but not round nose fmj? all the on-line clear gel tests I've seen show little to no difference between the same loadings when using round nose or flat nose in .45acp. do you have some data to support something different? thank you.
Comments that use ballistic jello as the basis for a counter point are rather humorous.

The flat point damages tissue in a way different then a round nose or even a round nose flat point. IF round nose was the be all of handgun rounds, why does everyone who hunts with a handgun always go flat point or semi wadcutter?

It can also put more oomph into the hole when it hits heavy bone.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:57 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I find these types of comments a bit humorous. "bone crushing" penetration is something unique to flat nose fmj but not round nose fmj? all the on-line clear gel tests I've seen show little to no difference between the same loadings when using round nose or flat nose in .45acp. do you have some data to support something different? thank you.
Shaver is on to it......
When was the last time you saw ballistic gel full of bones?
Round nose will skip, flat nose will smash and send fragments of bone everywhere.
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  #43  
Old 10-04-2019, 07:12 AM
JB6464 JB6464 is online now
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I find these types of comments a bit humorous. "bone crushing" penetration is something unique to flat nose fmj but not round nose fmj? all the on-line clear gel tests I've seen show little to no difference between the same loadings when using round nose or flat nose in .45acp. do you have some data to support something different? thank you.
And show me a Gel test where they put bones in it and test for real life like results .
Do you honestly believe human bodies are all liquid , a Gel test will only give you part of what's going on .
Don't know about your experiences but I have seen what a RN verses a FN bullets does to animals and I will take that test over some block of clear Gel any day of the week .
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JB6464 View Post
And show me a Gel test where they put bones in it and test for real life like results .
Do you honestly believe human bodies are all liquid , a Gel test will only give you part of what's going on .
Don't know about your experiences but I have seen what a RN verses a FN bullets does to animals and I will take that test over some block of clear Gel any day of the week .

Exactly right. Gel tests are fine for analyzing behavior of one bullet against another, but that's it. They're worthless for evaluating a bullet in real life terms as far as terminal performance goes.
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  #45  
Old 10-05-2019, 06:47 AM
noshow noshow is offline
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Originally Posted by JB6464 View Post
For SD solid rounds I use Speer Lawman Flat Nose TMJ ammo in either 200gr or 230gr .
Flat nose bullets is better for SD than round nose FMJ , you get bone crushing penetration , not just a bullet that pushes the tissue away as it enters like round nose bullets do .
I also find Speer ammo shoots clean and accurate through any of my 1911's and it's priced right .
I can't find these on the web. I guess they have been discontinued.
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  #46  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:25 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Originally Posted by Alabama-Ohio View Post
I find these types of comments a bit humorous. "bone crushing" penetration is something unique to flat nose fmj but not round nose fmj? all the on-line clear gel tests I've seen show little to no difference between the same loadings when using round nose or flat nose in .45acp. do you have some data to support something different? thank you.
I can't answer to "bone crushing", but flat nose bullets will generally travel straighter through media than round nose bullets that have a tendency to yaw.

Note the difference in bullet paths between the 200gr semi-wadcutter and the 230gr FMJ in these gel block pictures from Black Hills Ammo

http://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-...-ammo/45-acp/#

Here is some bullet shape theory explanation - in this case big game rifle hunting bullets - but the concept of bullet travel through media is the same.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html
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  #47  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:30 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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I can't find these on the web. I guess they have been discontinued.
Lucky Gunner https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-p...an-1000-rounds
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  #48  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:59 AM
JB6464 JB6464 is online now
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I can't find these on the web. I guess they have been discontinued.
Here is a few places I shop when I need more and I don't have time to reload my own .
Sometimes the 230gr will be temporally out of stock due to high demand but they are not discontinued per Speer .

https://www.sgammo.com/product/45-au...-fn-ammo-53658

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/spee...8-p-58808.aspx

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/spee...5-p-58870.aspx

Last edited by JB6464; 10-05-2019 at 08:53 AM.
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  #49  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:32 PM
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Paul Harell on youtube uses meat targets.....clothing, ribs front and rear, melons or fruit in between. now its still not a person but the videos are entertaining.
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  #50  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:44 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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well I guess I was wrong regarding round nose vs. flat nose in .45acp based on what those profiles do in other calibers. the best [ that I can find on-line] of repeatable testing media that might mimic a true living target is Paul Harrell's "meat target"
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