Who is right? - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:57 PM
machinegun74 machinegun74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 45
Posts: 930
The longer Ive owned my Brown the more I stopped overlooking a few things they did wrong. And didnt bother to correct when it went back to them to get the thumb safety some dimwit made dangerous when they built it. A fact no one caught checking it before it left the factory.

Not to mention the fact they made it out to be some kind of "deal" they made me to flush cut the muzzle for the "awesome" price of $50 bucks. Which coincedentally became the normal price about 3 months afterwards.

Then to add insult to injury here I have a Les Baer that cost a good chunk less that seems to impress me more and more each day I own it. The exact opposite of my Ed Brown.

I guess the more I read this kind of stuff and from my personal experience it tends to burn my ass. So I think I'll just wait because someday my local dealer will eventually get some of those SA Pros he has a standing order for in.
  #27  
Old 05-22-2010, 02:22 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Machinegun74,

+1 on Baer.

Live and learn and most of us only learn from our mistakes. What I don't want to do is to have to pay for the mistake of someone else.
__________________

  #28  
Old 05-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Moad Moad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Edge of Glory
Posts: 818
NFK,
Who is right? You are right.....no if's, and's, or but's about it. I had the exact same experience with another manufacturer about 6 months ago. Had two firearms ordered at the same time in fact. When the first one arrived straight from the factory, it wouldn't even chamber the first round. $75 to UPS and back to the factory it went. This particular company even states in their warranty they are liable for the return freight if found defective. I decided never again from that company, so my next firearm purchase was a Brown SF. I have to admit, I knew what Brown's policy was before I bought, but it just isn't right! Very short sighted on Mr. Brown's part but he's not asking me for my opinion either. It was hard for me to get beyond being out $75, but I have moved on. Hope you can as well. I feel your pain....I really do......
  #29  
Old 05-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Kruzr's Avatar
Kruzr Kruzr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Surf City, USA
Posts: 13,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFK View Post
Machinegun74,

+1 on Baer.

Live and learn and most of us only learn from our mistakes. What I don't want to do is to have to pay for the mistake of someone else.
FWIW, Baer won't pay shipping back to him for a warranty issue either. They will pay to come back to you and sometimes throw in goodies.

(I'd still choose another Baer over another Brown but that's been hashed out before.)
  #30  
Old 05-22-2010, 03:05 PM
baer383 baer383 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lawrenceville,Ga
Age: 51
Posts: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruzr View Post
FWIW, Baer won't pay shipping back to him for a warranty issue either. They will pay to come back to you and sometimes throw in goodies.

(I'd still choose another Baer over another Brown but that's been hashed out before.)
That's what I was thinking but I wasn't sure so I didn't comment.
__________________
I don't strive for perfection
but somehow I end up there
  #31  
Old 05-22-2010, 03:21 PM
shoot 1911 shoot 1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 89
A matter of principle

As a matter of principle it seems that your expectations were invalidated.

I do not support the current EB policy that all returns to factory which end up being an EB warranty issue are the financial responsibility of the gun owner. It would be a much better policy for him to implement a review program such that upon conclusion, it is determined that an EB part failure was to be identified and covered under warranty, then Ed Brown could personally instruct Justin to credit the cost of shipping charges to the owner and return the gun to the without additional charges applied.

I fully agree with your position that you should not have to suffer financial inconvenience for an EB parts failure/quality control issue. It is bad enough to be without one of your favorite firearms for the duration of time to ship back and forth and benchtime for repiar. Furthermore, I am also dismayed to have you state that the EB small part which failed WAS NOT up to the perceived HIGH QUALITY manufacturing process which we are all led to believe exists on each and everyone of EB's components, much less even admitted to by EB. At least they were honest and stated that information to you.

Did you request the factory to return the failed part with your repaired gun? Perhaps we all would have benefitted from an independent analysis by a certified gunsmith as to the quality of process and or material used in making this part? a hollow versus solid metal shaft? That seems to be a very GROSS QC error or negligence. If in fact yours was the first to be returned for this replacement you have actually done him a great service by highlighting this possibility remaining in the entire existing bacth of these parts. Perhaps you have even helped prevent an entire thread or two with multiple pages of entries stating "I also have had to send back to EB my pistol because of this part being hollow........."

Just wondering if the state of economy has forced even a company with a great quality of manufacturing reputation such as Ed Brown to cut corners? This, in light of the fact that many manufacturers and custom builders rely on EB as a source for the highest quality of these type small parts available for the model 1911.
__________________
Ed Brown Kobra - Sig P239 .40 S&W - Glock 17 - Ruger SRH .454 Casull - Ruger MK III - Colt SAA 44-40 - Ruger GP100 .357 Mag - SAKO .300 Wby - SAKO .270 Win - SAKO .243 Win - SAKO Mountain Eagle Rifle .223 - REM 700 .25-06 - CZ 453 Varmint .17 HMR - H&R Model 1871 .45-70 - Ruger 10/22 - Marlin Model 39A .22LR - Winchester Model 1892 .32WCF
  #32  
Old 05-22-2010, 04:49 PM
machinegun74 machinegun74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 45
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruzr View Post
FWIW, Baer won't pay shipping back to him for a warranty issue either. They will pay to come back to you and sometimes throw in goodies.

(I'd still choose another Baer over another Brown but that's been hashed out before.)
The Baer was a bargain and if I have to send it back to him for a slide stop. It seems maybe they had a bad batch of them. I can live with it.

The only gripes I have are the "deal" I got on the crown. And whats left is some slight cosmetic issues. Supposedly the Browns inspected my pistol personally and didnt do anything to address them. I didnt bring it up either but still. If something that had my name on it came back Id make it perfect, throw in some mags and a note.

I'll just say maybe I should move out there and get a job fitting their grip safety since I seem to be better than the professionals.
  #33  
Old 05-22-2010, 05:31 PM
seery seery is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by goetztrp View Post
Lesson learned. The next time you get a extra 2500$ to spend on a new gun buy one from either of the companys in berryville AR. and you will never pay for shipping again.
+1 and exactly why I went with a CQB.
  #34  
Old 05-22-2010, 05:44 PM
machinegun74 machinegun74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 45
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by seery View Post
+1 and exactly why I went with a CQB.
But you pay out the ass for them to smile when they fix their mistakes. So it aint like a free lunch or anything.
  #35  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:19 PM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Midwest
Age: 54
Posts: 2,255
If you look at this thread, it's about a manuf not wanting to give up $50, for the OP, it was about principle, as it should have been. So, Mr. Brown now has to ask himself the question: was my $50 worth it?? Are my "policies" really benefiting my company?? Bad business Brown.
  #36  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:36 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Moad,
I appreciate you understanding and you can be sure that I am going to move on. As I mentioned earlier, $50 is not going to change my life or Ed Brown's life, but I hope the general feelings on this forum give them the idea that what they did is not what they claim to stand for and it may hurt them in the long run.
__________________

  #37  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:40 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Kruzr,

(I'd still choose another Baer over another Brown but that's been hashed out before.)

I would agree with you on that decision. And my experience is that Les is personally involved in everything associated with his company, is knowledgeable, helpful, patient and will work with you until it is to your complete satisfaction. He will not blow you off. Just my experience.
__________________

  #38  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:46 PM
usurp31 usurp31 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,035
Shame on Brown; $50 is worth it to keep a customer buying their items in the future. I want a KC but the stories I have heard keep my $$ gravitating to other companies.
__________________
Roger
Memberships: NRA (Life), IDPA, Cheesecake of the Month (not really), COTEP #0371
  #39  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:49 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
shoot 191,

I fully agree with your position that you should not have to suffer financial inconvenience for an EB parts failure/quality control issue. It is bad enough to be without one of your favorite firearms for the duration of time to ship back and forth and benchtime for repiar. Furthermore, I am also dismayed to have you state that the EB small part which failed WAS NOT up to the perceived HIGH QUALITY manufacturing process which we are all led to believe exists on each and everyone of EB's components, much less even admitted to by EB. At least they were honest and stated that information to you.

You are right on target here. The only thing is that Ed Brown (personally in an email) suggested that they had spent enough time with me on this incident. I thought that was over the top. If you are paying that kind of money for what is advertised as a top quality product you expect quality control.

Did you request the factory to return the failed part with your repaired gun? Perhaps we all would have benefitted from an independent analysis by a certified gunsmith as to the quality of process and or material used in making this part? a hollow versus solid metal shaft? That seems to be a very GROSS QC error or negligence. If in fact yours was the first to be returned for this replacement you have actually done him a great service by highlighting this possibility remaining in the entire existing bacth of these parts. Perhaps you have even helped prevent an entire thread or two with multiple pages of entries stating "I also have had to send back to EB my pistol because of this part being hollow........."

That is a good point and I should have asked them to send back the defective part (not likely that they would) or at least have taken photos of it (I did not). To briefly describe the defect approximately 1/4" of the tip of the pin on the thumb safety fractured. The solid pin inside the hollow tube ended at the point of the break. I would have thought that the thumb safety was machined from solid stock. I have no idea if this is a potentially dangerous defect. Does anyone know if it is?


And just in the interest of full disclosure, the following is part of an email from Ed Brown Products:

Broken parts are simply replaced at no charge, by looking at your part it appears to be a casting flaw.
Thank you! (My underline for emphasis)

Ed Brown Products, Inc.
43825 Muldrow Trail
PO Box 492
Perry, MO 63462
573-565-3261
Fax: 573-565-2791
www.edbrown.com
__________________


Last edited by NFK; 05-22-2010 at 06:56 PM.
  #40  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:52 PM
Kruzr's Avatar
Kruzr Kruzr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Surf City, USA
Posts: 13,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFK View Post
Kruzr,

(I'd still choose another Baer over another Brown but that's been hashed out before.)

I would agree with you on that decision. And my experience is that Les is personally involved in everything associated with his company, is knowledgeable, helpful, patient and will work with you until it is to your complete satisfaction. He will not blow you off. Just my experience.
When I dealt with a Brown issue, they didn't "blow me off." They fixed the gun quickly and rethroated the barrel even though I didn't ask them to. This was about 4 or 5 years ago. They didn't talk much when I first called nor when they called to tell me it was coming back. The gun just came back fixed with no paperwork. At that time, I had to pay a premium for Fed Ex to deliver to Perry.

When I dealt with a Baer issue, I spoke with Les directly and while they were quite a bit slower than Brown, they called to tell me what they found and what they were going to do. When I got the gun back, there was a sheet with what was done, a target shot by Les, and two Baer shirts.
  #41  
Old 05-22-2010, 06:55 PM
KaptainKimber KaptainKimber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 624
I am not going to take sides here but I will make a suggestion.

Last fall my grip bushing pulled out of the frame on my Dan Wesson and the barrel bushing started to show signs of premature wear. I took the gun to my local FFL and for $15 he shipped it backed to them Priority Mail with insurance. DW took care of both items under warranty and returned the gun on their dime. The replacement bushing was a much higher quality item from Ed Brown.

So the next time you have an issue like this, see if you can get an FFL to ship it for you, it cost me a whole lot less than $50.
__________________
God Bless our troops
  #42  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:00 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruzr View Post
When I dealt with a Brown issue, they didn't "blow me off." They fixed the gun quickly and rethroated the barrel even though I didn't ask them to. This was about 4 or 5 years ago. They didn't talk much when I first called nor when they called to tell me it was coming back. The gun just came back fixed with no paperwork. At that time, I had to pay a premium for Fed Ex to deliver to Perry.

When I dealt with a Baer issue, I spoke with Les directly and while they were quite a bit slower than Brown, they called to tell me what they found and what they were going to do. When I got the gun back, there was a sheet with what was done, a target shot by Les, and two Baer shirts.
I rest my case. Brown did not respond to an email request for information on when the gun would be sent back. I just showed up in a box, no paperwork, no shirts, no sorry you had a problem.
__________________

  #43  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:01 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKimber View Post
I am not going to take sides here but I will make a suggestion.

Last fall my grip bushing pulled out of the frame on my Dan Wesson and the barrel bushing started to show signs of premature wear. I took the gun to my local FFL and for $15 he shipped it backed to them Priority Mail with insurance. DW took care of both items under warranty and returned the gun on their dime. The replacement bushing was a much higher quality item from Ed Brown.

So the next time you have an issue like this, see if you can get an FFL to ship it for you, it cost me a whole lot less than $50.
Good to know for next time which I hope will not come.
__________________

  #44  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:06 PM
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 4,369
It's bad business... All I can say is be glad is wasn't Kimber and the pistol came back without additional damage.. Good Luck.. Ron
  #45  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:30 PM
NFK NFK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
It's bad business... All I can say is be glad is wasn't Kimber and the pistol came back without additional damage.. Good Luck.. Ron
I am thankful for that.
__________________

  #46  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:55 PM
Jim V Jim V is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Michigan
Age: 77
Posts: 9,204
Thread closed

This has been discussed before and in this thread it has been beaten to death.

Brown has his posted return policy and no amount of "it sucks" here will change that policy.

Thread closed.
__________________
TFL #296 -- MOLON LABE Leonidas c 480 BC -- FFF
If it ain't metal, single stack, and single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like!!
Do Not Irk The Forum Curmudgeon
Harold V. B: 03/28/11 D: 11/23/07 Dad, I'll miss you.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved