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  #26  
Old 04-09-2010, 03:04 PM
extremist extremist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post
I also am not thrilled with tax protesters. Not someone I want to associate with personally. I pay more taxes than just about anyone, so I understand the dislike of the tax structure. I really dislike it.

But not paying your taxes is a crime. And I think any one who proposes not paying taxes on the premise that the Federal Tax code is unconstitutional will get a first hand lesson in the pneumonic BOHICA.

In short, I think the association with Champion is a mistake.

Regards,
Greyson
Spoken like a true subject. You focus on the "tax protester" and ignore that Dave is 30 year law enforcement instructor, former Airborne Ranger, etc.

Good grief, Dave is one of the good guys. Just because you don't BELIEVE what he believes, you dismiss him.

There are a lot of things that we all do in this country because of the force of government NOT because they are necessarily correct and Constitutional.

At some point though, something will give....

Regards,
James
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:01 PM
Emerson Emerson is offline
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Ultimately these "special edition" guns are simply about window dressing. Unless I am mistaken there is no significant practical difference between them and stock Kobra or SF.
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:19 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Originally Posted by jw pepper View Post
Personal taste aside, because that is a subjective point. By the way, I agree with the checkering. I don't like the FCS.

But my question is as to why you choose to not associate with the tax protester crowd. Is there something particularly defective with such a crowd? I can understand the few radical fringes that have become of note via various media, due to being too quick to not let the electoral processes have a chance to deal with the possible repeals of said possible non-constitutional legislation. But the tea party movement as a whole cannot be grouped as such.

Also, not to detract from your good fortune from being in such a tax bracket that would afford you such opportunity to have that point of view; but is that to suggest because you are in such good fortune that the rest of "us" should be terminally ill to the point that we rely upon your upper tier of payments that we cannot do better for ourselves? Shall we have w-2's at 10 paces and then turn? I, personally, think that is a very arrogant point of view to "possibly" suggest that the people who are beneath your tax bracket as a general populous are not capable of rising to a "higher station of life" and should be satisfied where we are and continually accept where we are at? No sir!

Were it not for our forefathers who dared to beg such questions and that we should merely submit to the crown and pay our dues, we would not have our Constitution with such an attitude. Historically speaking, the FICA was supposed to be temporary; but as we all know, once the government finds a way to get its hand on the peoples money, it becomes magically permanent. Ask Irwin Schiff, because he dared to challenge and is serving a prison sentence, amongst others.

You have some very broad strokes in your statements and I had to ask inquiry. Don't get me wrong, your input is very valuable and gave me much reason for purchasing an Ed Brown after owning Kimber, Springfield, Colt, etc., when I wasn't happy with various aspects from each manufacturer. But we aren't talking 1911's anymore. I'm just looking for clarification of your statements. I realize the issue is very broad and requires potentially substantial response, but I tried to be as brief as possible.

I am well aware of Jesus' statement of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but that is in no means a resignation of absolute submission...(not your words in your response, but another's response in support of what you said the way i read it.)

Whatever the case may be, at least we can agree that Ed Brown rocks.


What in the hell are you talking about? You obviously aren't talking to me and my post. I really want to have a civil conversation from this point, but I fear the distortion is going to get worse. But I will try.

In short....I don't know squat about Mr. Champion. Before yesterday, I never heard of the man. So I Googled him. I have found all of the same info you discuss. And he does seem like an extremely smart and knowledgeable person. I watched (yes watched) some of his radio shows and was impressed by his logic and knowledge of Constitutional Law.

BUT...the first thing that comes up in Google is a service he offers to help people BREAK THE LAW by making a legal argument that a section of the Constitution in Unconstitutional (which on it's face is impossible) or that some citizens are exempt from this aspect of The Constitution, but not the other parts. How convenient (sic). And criminal.

My comments about tax bracket were simply to to illustrate my sympathies with his feelings and the pain of the current tax code. How in the world did you Divine from my post that I am against the Tea Party?

DUDE! I'm a Libertarian! I AM THE FREAKING TEA-PARTY!

I just don't think a Tax Protester should be associated with Ed Brown.

Do you know that a Tax Protester before B.O. is someone who tries to violate Federal Tax law? Tax Protester IS NOT a Tea Party member!

What the hell?!

Regards,
Greyson
  #29  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:58 PM
shoot 1911 shoot 1911 is offline
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MY 2 CENTS WORTH re: marketing strategy

this new pistol is difficult to grasp - same internals as K / SF / Excutive

FCS added plus serated slide stop tab plus some way cool grips plus 10-8 sights

all in all this is the same molon labe as series 1 but add the "champion" moniker onto the slide

one may presume that there is a somewhat deep respect for Mr. Champion amongst the Ed Brown camp, but it would only be pure speculation as to what aspect of Mr. Champion's experience package that Mr. Brown finds appealing enough to sponsor a signature product with this type of endorsement

Mr. Champion obviously has hands on operator credentials enough to deserve a handgun tribute without consideration for his political preferences - however I doubt the Champion moniker engraved on the slide will create a substantial increase in market demand for this product nor do I believe that the market will respond with an appreciation in value of this handgun as time moves on

obviously Mr. Brown agrees that this offering is NOT intended to increase his profit margin as he has priced it directly in line with his current models and currently available options per his published price list

my personal preference would be the molon labe series 1 minus the Champion lettering
  #30  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:05 PM
FAAPOD FAAPOD is offline
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I'm dense. What does BOHICA mean?
  #31  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot 1911 View Post
MY 2 CENTS WORTH re: marketing strategy

this new pistol is difficult to grasp - same internals as K / SF / Excutive

FCS added plus serated slide stop tab plus some way cool grips plus 10-8 sights

all in all this is the same molon labe as series 1 but add the "champion" moniker onto the slide

one may presume that there is a somewhat deep respect for Mr. Champion amongst the Ed Brown camp, but it would only be pure speculation as to what aspect of Mr. Champion's experience package that Mr. Brown finds appealing enough to sponsor a signature product with this type of endorsement

Mr. Champion obviously has hands on operator credentials enough to deserve a handgun tribute without consideration for his political preferences - however I doubt the Champion moniker engraved on the slide will create a substantial increase in market demand for this product nor do I believe that the market will respond with an appreciation in value of this handgun as time moves on

obviously Mr. Brown agrees that this offering is NOT intended to increase his profit margin as he has priced it directly in line with his current models and currently available options per his published price list

my personal preference would be the molon labe series 1 minus the Champion lettering
The Browns told me this weapon was spec'ed out by a former Delta Force member. Was Mr. Champion a member of The Delta Force? Maybe? I honestly don't know. But that is what he is telling them.

Regards,
Greyson
  #32  
Old 04-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAAPOD View Post
I'm dense. What does BOHICA mean?
Definitions pertinent to this thread:

Tea Party -- A group of Americans, at least 1/3rd who voted for Obama, who feel that Republicans and Democrats and Socialists are giving America the BOHICA.

Tax Protester -- A very small minority of people who file bogus legal arguments claiming the 16th Amendment of the Constitution is illegal, unconstitutional, the IRS is a foreign corporation, or that that application of Federal Income Taxes is BOHICAing them. See--Wesley Snipes who was promptly BOHICAed by the IRS for such foolishness.

BOHICA -- The last mnemonic in the series of SNAFU, TARFU, FUBAR, BOHICA. Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

Regards,
Greyson
  #33  
Old 04-09-2010, 11:17 PM
FAAPOD FAAPOD is offline
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Thanks Greyson. SNAFU, TARFU, and FUBAR I'm familiar with. BOHICA was a new one on me. LOL
  #34  
Old 04-10-2010, 07:15 AM
Plexi Plexi is offline
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Well I must say, that, sans markings and adding checkering instead of those scales, would be a Brown I could see myself loving. All biz.

I do like the Spartan Helmet though.
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  #35  
Old 04-10-2010, 07:53 AM
scw2 scw2 is offline
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When we gonna get to the dueling W-2s?
  #36  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:03 AM
Ditto_95 Ditto_95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post
See--Wesley Snipes who was promptly BOHICAed by the IRS for such foolishness.
Sorry Greyson, I know you are a pretty smart guy but, that is not a word.
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  #37  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:36 AM
scw2 scw2 is offline
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[QUOTE=

Do you know that a Tax Protester before B.O. is someone who tries to violate Federal Tax law? [/QUOTE]



Greyson, what does the above mean? B.O. is Obama?

Thanks,

Craig
  #38  
Old 04-10-2010, 01:56 PM
kingc kingc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson View Post
Definitions pertinent to this thread:

Tea Party -- A group of Americans, at least 1/3rd who voted for Obama, who feel that Republicans and Democrats and Socialists are giving America the BOHICA.

Tax Protester -- A very small minority of people who file bogus legal arguments claiming the 16th Amendment of the Constitution is illegal, unconstitutional, the IRS is a foreign corporation, or that that application of Federal Income Taxes is BOHICAing them. See--Wesley Snipes who was promptly BOHICAed by the IRS for such foolishness.

BOHICA -- The last mnemonic in the series of SNAFU, TARFU, FUBAR, BOHICA. Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

Regards,
Greyson
Same as Bohica Tactical in LA
  #39  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:55 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditto_95 View Post
Sorry Greyson, I know you are a pretty smart guy but, that is not a word.
There are some simple truths in life.

One of them is...when Bubba has some tax-protester bent over in the shower-room.....errr....well....just remember, they don't call it "The Pokey" for nuthn'.


Regards,
Greyson

P.S. Them Vampire powers don't fly in General-Pop, Wesley.
  #40  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:57 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
Greyson, what does the above mean? B.O. is Obama?

Thanks,

Craig
Yes.

Regards,
Greyson
  #41  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:57 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingc View Post
Same as Bohica Tactical in LA
Oh, man. Talk about inside baseball. Those guys suck too.

Regards,
Greyson
  #42  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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Ya'll need to BACK OFF my man Greyson, or you'll deal with the Ticeman! that's right, I'll get all Ninja on yer butts! come out of the shadow's with a flyin spinning kick! Bruce Lee like!
  #43  
Old 04-11-2010, 05:59 AM
Ditto_95 Ditto_95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
Ya'll need to BACK OFF my man Greyson, or you'll deal with the Ticeman! that's right, I'll get all Ninja on yer butts! come out of the shadow's with a flyin spinning kick! Bruce Lee like!
So will we meet at the mall?
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  #44  
Old 04-19-2010, 08:37 PM
230therapy 230therapy is offline
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Greyson,

Your premise is wrong. Dave Champion says the tax code IS Constitutional. It has been written very, very carefully. The problem is not the constitutionality, but the misapplication of the tax to people upon whom Congress has not imposed the tax. The average American, living and working in the US, whose wages come from inside the country, does not owe Federal income tax. Those who volunteer to sign the contract with the IRS, do owe the tax.

It's not breaking the law IF you don't sign on the dotted line of the forms authorizing withholding. Champion advocates that there is no requirement to sign except in certain circumstances. Companies don't understand the law, fail to read it and just assume it's required. Signing the form means you're declaring, under penalty of perjury, that you're a tax payer. It's too late at that point. Snipes signed the contract with the IRS, swore he was a tax payer and then decided to fool around with the forms.

There's a reason Champion is not in jail...and it's because he doesn't break the law. Otherwise, they would have incarcerated him last year when they pulled him into Federal court. The other tax honesty guys played around with the forms. They're in jail because they didn't get it. They signed the forms and played games with the numbers...they literally signed themselves into jail. That's Champion's position as I understand it.

***

As for the gun, I just cannot get past the forward slide serrations...and Ed Brown's price tag.

Last edited by 230therapy; 04-19-2010 at 08:42 PM.
  #45  
Old 04-19-2010, 08:50 PM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Originally Posted by 230therapy View Post
There's a reason Champion is not in jail....
Yes there is...it's called a warrant for arrest and him giving up. And then walking out of the court-house and declaring victory.

At the end of the day, people who tax protester ends up in the same place. You are just confirming it.

Regards,
Greyson
  #46  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:01 PM
Jim V Jim V is offline
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I can not see the value of allowing this thread to continue. I do not want it to become a verbal melee.

CLOSED! I would hope it is not revisited.
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