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  #1  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:51 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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newly acquired 1945 Rand windage adjustment

Good Evening folks, new to the forum and figured I would make my first post as I just acquired this 1945 Rand 1911a1 recently. A WWII era 1911 has been on my gun bucket list for some time so I am definitely thrilled with the purchase (I paid 1400 which I think is fair but I am no expert on these). I have been reading up on these and hence am aware of general Rand history but if anyone has any specific things they want to educate me on I am all ears! With the exception of a small pitting spot on the end of the slide the pistol is in excellent condition, has a strong bore, and original magazine.

I fired 80 rounds through the pistol today without problems. The gun did shoot 4 or 5 inches left of point of aim which I would like to fix if it is not too difficult.

Is it possible to drift the rear sight to the left in order to get my point of impact adjusted? I would appreciate any advice on this as I dont want to mess with the gun and damage it in any way. Thank you for your help!
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60368334575--B95AC31C-253B-4576-A397-1E8DD86A23BD.jpg   rand 2.jpg   rand 3.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:02 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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If the pistol is shooting to the left you need to drift the sight to the right. The rear sight is drift-adjustable, but you have to be careful not to ding either it or the slide up in the process. It may also be stuck on there pretty good after 80 years. Find somebody with a sight adjusting tool, or else use a brass or nylon drift punch and be very careful not to smack anything but the sight itself.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:17 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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DSK, thank you for the quick response and for correcting me on right direction to shift the rear sight!

Do you think this would be a good tool to use?

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Sig.../dp/B075QV1SQY

Here are some more pics of this bad boy!
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rand 4.jpg   rand 5.jpg   rand 6.jpg   rand 7.jpg  
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  #4  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:21 AM
usgi1911 usgi1911 is offline
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Quote:
Do you think this would be a good tool to use?

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Sig.../dp/B075QV1SQY
That would work you would need to tape the edge of rear sight off to prevent the marring.
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  #5  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:05 AM
clsc clsc is offline
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Why would you even shoot this pistol? From the pictures, it looks to have decent collector value and thus is not really a shooter. Every time you shoot it, the wear increases and the value decreases, not to mention the possibility of breaking parts original to the gun. No matter what you use to drift the rear sight, there will probably be some flattening of the metal. Don't ask me how I know. The metal of the rear sight is fairly soft. Plus once you move the rear sight, the witness marks won't line up. When I look at a "collectible" 1911/a1 and see the rear sight witness marks out of line, I suspect the gun has been messed with and the collector value proportionally reduced. As has been said many times on this forum, they are original only once. Just clean it and oil it and enjoy your pistol as the wonderful piece of history that it is and get a modern 1911 to take to the range.

Last edited by clsc; 02-18-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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  #6  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:52 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsc View Post
Why would you even shoot this pistol? From the pictures, it looks to have decent collector value and thus is not really a shooter. Every time you shoot it, the wear increases and the value decreases, not the mention the possibility of breaking parts original to the gun. No matter what you use to drift the rear sight, there will probably be some flattening of the metal. Don't ask me how I know. The metal of the rear sight is fairly soft. Plus once you move the rear sight, the witness marks won't line up. When I look at a "collectible" 1911/a1 and see the rear sight witness marks out of line, I suspect the gun has been messed with and the collector value proportionally reduced. As has been said many times on this forum, they are original only once. Just clean it and oil it and enjoy your pistol as the wonderful piece of history that it is and get a modern 1911 to take to the range.

As usual in these cases I completely agree, those old warhorses don't make the best shooters at all, soft steel lends itself to peening and cracking, and their tiny sights surely don't help when one shoots them, moreover WWII slides were only spot hardened and shouldn't be considered "shooters", since they can crack.

My .02 and just my little rant on the subject.
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  #7  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:27 PM
Dan13 Dan13 is offline
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As a counterpoint to this argument, I think the only pistol you should own is one you shoot and get proficient at. This is what this item was MADE to do, and it is very enjoyable to me to take my CMP 1913 Colt 1911 with a Remington Rand slide that no other civilian has shot and put 50 rounds through it learning how it likes to be shot. Yep, it is a mixmaster and not specifically a "collectors item" except it came from the CMP, but I would rather enjoy the pistol I have in my hand for what it was designed for and enjoy the "collectors" 1911s in pictures. Cheaper that way too! Remember, it takes all kinds to make the world go around, do what YOU want to do with YOUR pistol - you can't take it with you!
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  #8  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:17 PM
filson filson is offline
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I'm with clsc and Sergio. Clean it, fondle it, admire it, protect it in a safe place.
Repeat process as frequently and for as long as it makes you feel good.
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  #9  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:59 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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Gentlemen, thank you for the input! I certainly appreciate that it is a nice historical piece and needs to be cared for. That said, if it can survive battle I think it can occasionally survive me putting 50 rounds through it (after which I will of course immediately clean and oil).

What are your guys thoughts on value? Did I get a good deal at $1400?
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  #10  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:47 PM
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On a fairly common example like a Type III Remington Rand 50 rounds now and then isn't an act of vandalism, but then again if you're only shooting it that much there's really no reason to risk damaging the slide or sight by trying to move it. Just use "Kentucky windage" when you shoot.

BTW you did okay on the value.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:24 AM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
On a fairly common example like a Type III Remington Rand 50 rounds now and then isn't an act of vandalism, but then again if you're only shooting it that much there's really no reason to risk damaging the slide or sight by trying to move it. Just use "Kentucky windage" when you shoot.

BTW you did okay on the value.
Thanks DSK! I think I may follow the Kentucky windage advice since I definitely don't want to risk damage and it is only a few inches off!
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:56 AM
deserttrans deserttrans is offline
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Congrats on the newly acquired pistol. I am sure you will be a fine custodian and care for it properly no mater how you choose to use it.
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Last edited by deserttrans; 02-19-2020 at 08:09 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:19 PM
win40-82 win40-82 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan13 View Post
As a counterpoint to this argument, I think the only pistol you should own is one you shoot and get proficient at. This is what this item was MADE to do, and it is very enjoyable to me to take my CMP 1913 Colt 1911 with a Remington Rand slide that no other civilian has shot and put 50 rounds through it learning how it likes to be shot. Yep, it is a mixmaster and not specifically a "collectors item" except it came from the CMP, but I would rather enjoy the pistol I have in my hand for what it was designed for and enjoy the "collectors" 1911s in pictures. Cheaper that way too! Remember, it takes all kinds to make the world go around, do what YOU want to do with YOUR pistol - you can't take it with you!
Why should he only have own one pistol? And also he may not be able to take it with him but he can certainly leave it fully intact and pass it to another.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:46 PM
Dan13 Dan13 is offline
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Why should he only have own one pistol? And also he may not be able to take it with him but he can certainly leave it fully intact and pass it to another.
I never said he had to only own one pistol. And personally, I do not buy items to preserve it for someone else. Many people like me in the world and I do not think we should be brought to task for "gasp" shooting a gun that was built and designed to be shot. If you want to spend your money for a gun safe queen or to pass it down to someone else, awesome - and I truly mean that. But, I get tired of reading posts from others that basically makes you out to be a fool because we shoot and enjoy an old pistol we bought with our own hard earned cash. To each his own.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:12 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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Most importantly, we live in free country where we have the awesome freedom to own firearms and enjoy them as we please so long as it does not harm others! In my case, I will take care of this 1911, occasionally shoot it, and hopefully one day pass it on! God Bless America!!
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:25 AM
1saxman 1saxman is online now
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Before shooting it again, you should replace the recoil spring with a 16#, and the firing pin spring with an 'extra-power'. These come as a set from Wolff springs. As for shooting left, this is common with many shooters and usually is the result of poor trigger technique. If you think about it, that pistol has been around for 75 years and nobody in all that time had the armorer shift the sight over. Maybe its you.
BTW, I'd say that pistol would bring $1750 on the open market so you got a fair deal.
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Last edited by 1saxman; 02-22-2020 at 09:28 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2020, 11:43 AM
67ray 67ray is offline
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That is a stunning RR . . . and yes a great deal
God Bless America
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2020, 01:13 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
Before shooting it again, you should replace the recoil spring with a 16#, and the firing pin spring with an 'extra-power'. These come as a set from Wolff springs. As for shooting left, this is common with many shooters and usually is the result of poor trigger technique. If you think about it, that pistol has been around for 75 years and nobody in all that time had the armorer shift the sight over. Maybe its you.
BTW, I'd say that pistol would bring $1750 on the open market so you got a fair deal.
Thank you for the info and appraisal! I really dont think i am at fault with the shooting left problem...i dont have this problem with any of my other pistols. That said, I will pay more attention to this next time at the range...you never know.

What is the rationale behind the need for new springs? Are you simply implying that the current ones are likely worn out due to age?

I assume the below is the spring set you are refrencing?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3415121962
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2020, 01:13 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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That is a stunning RR . . . and yes a great deal
God Bless America
Thank you
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2020, 09:33 PM
Dan13 Dan13 is offline
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Originally Posted by eugevita View Post
Thank you for the info and appraisal! I really dont think i am at fault with the shooting left problem...i dont have this problem with any of my other pistols. That said, I will pay more attention to this next time at the range...you never know.

What is the rationale behind the need for new springs? Are you simply implying that the current ones are likely worn out due to age?

I assume the below is the spring set you are refrencing?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3415121962
You should always replace the springs on a new-to-you used gun. They are cheap and then you know when new springs went in so you will know when you should replace again. You don't know how many rounds have gone through the one you just got. Kinda like always changing the fuids on any used car you buy - cheap insurance.

The kit you found at Midway will work, but the firing pin is not the extra strength version.
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  #21  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:08 AM
1saxman 1saxman is online now
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The old springs may be weak. The recoil spring might be letting the slide batter too hard which would cause it to crack at the 90 degree angle at the rear of the spring tunnel. If you put it a stronger recoil spring, it might cause a 'slam-fire' with the weak firing pin spring. So, the thing to do is replace both. All the other springs tend to last indefinitely.
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  #22  
Old 02-23-2020, 12:14 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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The recoil and firing pin springs are the only two that ever need to be replaced on an old or high-use 1911. The rest are usually good for the life of the gun. Recoil springs usually last around 3,000 rounds, and the firing pin springs will often fail just with the passage of time as they don't like remaining compressed. I've lost count of the old 1911s I bought where I discovered the firing pin spring had completely lost spring tension and was as limp as a noodle.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #23  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:15 PM
steveno steveno is offline
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have somebody else shoot it and see if it shoots left for them
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  #24  
Old 02-23-2020, 07:19 PM
eugevita eugevita is offline
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Thank you for the info gentlemen! I fired 50 more rounds through it today and it shot a bit closer to point of aim this time (still somewhat left). It seemed that the more I very firmly gripped the pistol the closer it was to point of aim. Shot my les baer side by side with it which shot the lights out at point of aim obviously....very fun to shoot and old school 1911 side by side with my les baer custom carry....it was a 1911 kind of day.

There is one note of bad news and I welcome your opinions: I noticed some small bits of surface rust on my pistol's slide and grip while shooting today. I was very surprised and saddened by this as I shot and cleaned the pistol last week to include wiping with a hoppes cloth. Perhaps the rust was already there but that seems unlikely...I had the gun stored for the last week in a silicone gun sock inside of an old 1960s pistol zipper case which came with the gun. The one thing I can think off is maybe the zipper case could have been a bit damp as I washed it after buying the gun (the case hadn't been cleaned in decades). Regardless, I am a bit perplexed and am about to clean and oil the 1911. I also made sure to dry out the zipper case in the dryer.

Any ideas? Are these extra prone to rusting? Never had this happen before. Thanks!
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Old 02-23-2020, 07:36 PM
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If you put a carbon steel firearm in a damp zipper case then yes you can easily have some rusting. People don't realize that Parkerizing by itself doesn't protect against rust. It's the fact that it soaks up oil like a sponge is what allows it to protect against corrosion. But bone-dry Parkerizing is just as prone to rusting as blued steel is.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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