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  #1  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:41 PM
Kev_byf Kev_byf is online now
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Alliant Red Dot

I loaded up a 185gr SWC over 4.5gr of Alliant Red Dot (newest "cleaner" variety) crimped at .469. Bullet was seated right around 1.226.

Gun is an old Kimber customized by Dave Berryhill long ago with a reduced radius FPS and a fresh 16 lbs recoils spring.

I fired a few mags of Federal American Eagle 230 gr ball.

Then I fired a mag of the handloads. It literally made me giggle. It functioned the gun, but there was minimal recoil. The brass ejected in a neat pile just to my right (as opposed to the ball ammo which was about four feet away).

Accuracy wasn't as good as the ball ammo either (ball was about a 3" group at 10 yards and the handload was about 5"). It seemed to not be burning all the powder either as I found a couple pieces of the red colored powder and some soot inside the gun.

Should I bump up to 4.8 grains and try again?

I want to keep recoil as low as possible, but every manual seems to have a huge spread for Red Dot.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:25 AM
Viper_29 Viper_29 is offline
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Personally I think 1.226 is rather long for a 185.

When I load copper FP 200's I seat to 1.200. I use a charge of 4.2gr Red Dot.
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:10 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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There is certainly room to move a bit. I would not use Lyman data that you come across though. Not sure what they were smokin’ that day........
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  #4  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:24 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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I don't think the "red dots" burn. They are meant to identify the powder in the canister, like Green dot and Blue dot!

It seems there are always a few everywhere.

Smiles,
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:54 PM
Chris1971 Chris1971 is offline
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From One Book/One Caliber

RCBS 4.1/4.5
Lyman 4.0/5.5

If you’re goal is to keep recoil to a minimum you could lower your charge weight starting at 4.0 grains? You might need to change your spring. I have not tried Red Dot in my 45 Autos but I have tried it in my 9mms. While it’s never found its way into a pet load, it has proven to be consistently the most accurate powder I have tested for 9mm. It seems to be most accurate at or near the minimum charge weights but unfortunately doesn’t always have enough energy to properly cycle the action.
Here is a photo of 5 shots at 75’ with a 125 JHP. The group is slightly sub 1”, which is probably about as good as I can shoot with iron sights.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:33 PM
flechero flechero is offline
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If I were you, I'd load a handfull (maybe 10-15 ea.) of rounds at 4.2, 4.5 (again to validate the first batch and another group at 4.8 grains. This should tell you what you want to know in recoil, ejection and accuracy.

I'd also load a handful with bullseye as mentioned in the other thread, so that you can compare to the red dot loads in real time.

Glad you are off to a good start!
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:54 PM
Kev_byf Kev_byf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
If I were you, I'd load a handfull (maybe 10-15 ea.) of rounds at 4.2, 4.5 (again to validate the first batch and another group at 4.8 grains. This should tell you what you want to know in recoil, ejection and accuracy.

I'd also load a handful with bullseye as mentioned in the other thread, so that you can compare to the red dot loads in real time.

Glad you are off to a good start!
Heck, that just makes sense!

Would I be better off switching to a 200 gr SWC (H&G 68 style) since it seems there is much more load data available for that? Would the recoil be that much more over the 185?
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:39 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post
Heck, that just makes sense!

Would I be better off switching to a 200 gr SWC (H&G 68 style) since it seems there is much more load data available for that? Would the recoil be that much more over the 185?
You will be able to tell the difference between the 185's & 200's. It seems to me there's enough load data available to find a safe, mild load with Red Dot and 185gr bullets.
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  #9  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:00 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
If I were you, I'd load a handfull (maybe 10-15 ea.) of rounds at 4.2, 4.5 (again to validate the first batch and another group at 4.8 grains. This should tell you what you want to know in recoil, ejection and accuracy.

I'd also load a handful with bullseye as mentioned in the other thread, so that you can compare to the red dot loads in real time.

Glad you are off to a good start!
The end result is that he will switch to Bullseye!!
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  #10  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:22 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post
Heck, that just makes sense!

Would I be better off switching to a 200 gr SWC (H&G 68 style) since it seems there is much more load data available for that? Would the recoil be that much more over the 185?
I wouldn't switch yet... unless you are just about out of the 185's. I have some 185/200 loads that I'm not sure I can distinguish recoil between.

Find a good light and fairly accurate load now (so you can shoot comfortably) and then as time permits, chase your end goal of the super accurate load with [almost] no recoil. You may or may not beat what you have now, by an appreciable amount.

I do think you can get an even softer load with bullseye, clays or N310.
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:45 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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You can go as low as 3.5 grains of Bullseye or red dot with a 200 grain SWC.

I use Alliant Promo which is Red dot with out the red dots. It has the same burning speed as Red dot by weight. (not volume). It comes in 8 lb jugs, last I saw was $119 @ powder valley. I use it for practice loads and light loads in 38, 44, 45 acp and 45 colt. For Bullseye loads I use Bullseye or WST.
David
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:22 AM
Kev_byf Kev_byf is online now
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Originally Posted by david_root2000 View Post
You can go as low as 3.5 grains of Bullseye or red dot with a 200 grain SWC.

I use Alliant Promo which is Red dot with out the red dots. It has the same burning speed as Red dot by weight. (not volume). It comes in 8 lb jugs, last I saw was $119 @ powder valley. I use it for practice loads and light loads in 38, 44, 45 acp and 45 colt. For Bullseye loads I use Bullseye or WST.
David
My Trap & Skeet club sells Alliant Promo for $111 for an 8lbs jug (no shipping or hazamat...Red Dot is $139). If I can get these Red Dot loads dialled in I think that would be a pretty economical choice. Any downside of Promo? Is it extremely dirty?
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:13 PM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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No its not extremely dirty. It fills a good part of the case. About twice the volume of Titegroup for the same weight. The stuff was made to run at shotgun pressure.


I can tell you 5 grains will give you 860 fps, 4.5 will get 800 ish for a 200 grain lead SWC.
Depending on your bullet, crimp.... etc....

A 185 needs just a little more powder.

Enjoy. I am on my second jug.


David
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2020, 06:23 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post
My Trap & Skeet club sells Alliant Promo for $111 for an 8lbs jug (no shipping or hazamat...Red Dot is $139). If I can get these Red Dot loads dialled in I think that would be a pretty economical choice. Any downside of Promo? Is it extremely dirty?
That’s a good competitive price, but don’t get hung up because of a few $$.
Hazmat is nice to get away from though. Nice that your club offers a good deal like that. Most will give you a nose bleed.
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2020, 02:08 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
The end result is that he will switch to Bullseye!!
Still works great in .45 ACP.
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2020, 05:06 PM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Yessir…….Im fond of the old timey stuff.
Plus, im stocked with so much of a few flavors that I may as well just stick with it!
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2020, 05:37 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
[IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif[/IMG] The end result is that he will switch to Bullseye!!
Still works great in .45 ACP.
Bullseye will work in most every handgun ctg. Maybe not in the .480s, but most others. You won't usually get max velocities, but will usually get exellent accuracy.
Bullseye is a GREAT powder!
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