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  #1  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:08 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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First Aid when the S really does HTF

The tragic plight of those families in Mexico who were presumably murdered by a cartel made me think of First Aid, particularly the brave teen who hid his wounded siblings in brush and walked 14 miles in the desert to get them help.

They survived and were rescued, so the lad obviously did many things right, but what?
He had to stop bleeding from gunshot wounds, but with multiple casualties, how? And if not then what?
And what about preventing shock? Was the lad able to retrieve any water and blankets from the SUVs before they were set fire? And if not, then what?
And how was he able to make his way into town without being discovered by the cartel?
Lots of questions and I hope someone can supply the answers!

Last edited by John Joseph; 11-06-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2019, 07:19 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Agreed. I have been considering using some of my GI Bill to go back to school for Paramedic.
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:52 PM
stevemaury stevemaury is offline
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I have been a ski patroller for 25 years. If you cannot stop bleeding with pressure or a tourniquet, victim is going to die. Airway, breathing, circulation - everything else is window dressing.
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:45 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
I have been a ski patroller for 25 years. If you cannot stop bleeding with pressure or a tourniquet, victim is going to die. Airway, breathing, circulation - everything else is window dressing.
Agreed, but how did this lad do what he did? Considering that being under fire, he most likely wasn't able to even retrieve a first aid kit from the SUV!
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:36 PM
stevemaury stevemaury is offline
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Unless your first aid kit has airways or suction, it has nothing you need to save a life.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:36 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
Unless your first aid kit has airways or suction, it has nothing you need to save a life.
He probably had to improvise---that can be done with a sucking chest wound but he'll still need tape.
We still don't know the extent of the injuries he was dealing with other than gunshots
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:34 PM
Daveboone Daveboone is offline
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I hadn't heard anything about the level of wounds that the survivors sustained. It is entirely possible the kid didn't do anything at all, and the survivors were just lucky. If they were in condition to move any sort of distance away from the ambush and escape discovery, I am guessing they were in fair to middling condition at that point.
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  #8  
Old 11-12-2019, 04:53 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
I have been a ski patroller for 25 years. If you cannot stop bleeding with pressure or a tourniquet, victim is going to die. Airway, breathing, circulation - everything else is window dressing.
Did you ever get a chance to use the "quick-clot" type dressing products? Just wondering how well they work?
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:55 AM
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AndyC AndyC is offline
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I'm really glad that I did the TCCC (Tactical Combat Casualty Care) course a few years ago - while it's no way near an EMT or Paramedic skill-level, it's very useful and confidence-boosting.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:17 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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We had to take all kinds of courses to work for Military Sealift Command.

Some were better than others. I still have to laugh when I remember watching Krista the second mate trying to insert a catheter into the anatomically correct doll.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:44 PM
Daveboone Daveboone is offline
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FYI to who might be interested. Last I knew, EMT/Paramedic training was only available if you were a member of an emergency service, at least that is what was required in NY. You could be a member of a volunteer fire dept/ambulance corp or such and they will sponsor the training. Even though you would get a fair bit out of it, a large amount of the training goes to waste if you cant apply it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:25 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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FYI to who might be interested. Last I knew, EMT/Paramedic training was only available if you were a member of an emergency service, at least that is what was required in NY...
Sounds like some more of that union crap that the northern states have to deal with. Not true in my part of the country. The program is open to anyone who can meet the admission requirements which do NOT include anything about employment at all.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:00 AM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveboone View Post
FYI to who might be interested. Last I knew, EMT/Paramedic training was only available if you were a member of an emergency service, at least that is what was required in NY. You could be a member of a volunteer fire dept/ambulance corp or such and they will sponsor the training. Even though you would get a fair bit out of it, a large amount of the training goes to waste if you cant apply it.
That’s very odd, and certainly not the norm. EMT is taught at junior colleges across the country, for anyone who wants to take it. It’s a one semester class, and at least locally, it’s 8.5 units (180 hours). It requires a boatload of immunizations (over $800 dollars worth), so try to get your insurance to cover it. The immunizations are required to complete the mandatory ambulance and ER ride-a-long portions of the course. Once you pass the class, you then have to take the National Registry test, which is quite challenging compared to the test most states/ counties offer for recertification.

I highly recommend EMT to anyone interested in preparedness. You’ll use it far more often in life than you ever will use your combat/ shooting skills. And since it’s at the BLS level, you don’t have to operate under anyone’s license. Paramedic school is incredibly expensive, lasts two years on average, and is overkill on a phenomenal level for the layperson. It has the added negative of being ALS, which means if you use your skills off-duty or on your own, you will get sued to high heaven (and lose every time). Because ALS can only operate under a physicians license, either through protocols or standing orders/ base contact, while on duty.

I’ve gone through both, and to be blunt, going to paramedic school if you didn’t plan on working in the field would be silly. EMT school, on the other hand, I can’t recommend highly enough, for anyone remotely interested in it.
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2019, 03:26 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
Unless your first aid kit has airways or suction, it has nothing you need to save a life.
Not close to true.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:30 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
Unless your first aid kit has airways or suction, it has nothing you need to save a life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Not close to true.
I'm inclined to agree with you, Shooter. When I envision emergencies that would require airways and suction, I have a hard time coming up with a scenario where the patient wouldn't be in need of immediate definitive care. The whole idea behind a a "true S hitting TF", as in this thread, is that definitive care likely won't exist, or will be very limited/ situational.

I can think of a lot of things in an IFAK or aid bag that could have life-saving effects, even without definitive care. Airways and suction are not one of them. Now don't get me wrong, my aid bag has both in it. But my aid bag is not for a SHTF scenario, it's for real life.
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  #16  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:36 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
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Same here, my full kit has everything most anyone could use.......but airways are tricky, suckers can be treated with a wide range of ‘improv’, but those big bleeders are a game over, no matter how well the patient is breathing, or not.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:36 PM
sambob sambob is offline
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I think getting some EMT training NOW would go a long way to Improving you're chances and be trained on the use of everything In your emergency bag or good friends with the doctor next door
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:23 PM
Hank in Arkansa Hank in Arkansa is offline
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I'm a retired FF/EMT (National Registry and state licensed) from my time with an all volunteer fire department and a volunteer ambulance service. I first took an abbreviated course called "first responder", then EMT thru a local community college. Either course is a great resource for anyone interested in life saving rescue.
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  #19  
Old 02-06-2020, 06:37 PM
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Johnny handgun Johnny handgun is online now
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With everything I have wrong with me someone either needs to make sure that I have a weapon and ammo to fight while I still can or just put a bull it in my head.

I have a bit better working knowledge than the average Joe due to all my injuries throu the years so for me I need to make sure I have all the supplies I need and I’m pretty well stocked on that.

One thing to try to get for your kit is a product called silvadine. It works like a miracle for burns and road rash.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:58 PM
Miles42 Miles42 is offline
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going through the house after an accidental slice of a finger i realize how badly prepared i am as fare as first aid goes. i will be addressing this issue very soon.
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