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  #1  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:31 PM
warp2diesel warp2diesel is offline
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Should I carry a 1911 I have built?

I have built several 1911s both from 4140 steel and Stainless. From both 80% and 100% frames. When I get time to take the class required in Illinois, is there a problem carrying a 1911 I have built?
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:46 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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They still let you have guns in Illinois?
I would make sure you are not causing yourself a problem if you show up with an 80% frame without the proper "paper trail" of dealer purchase, etc., in a place that WILL look for ways to trip you up as a gun owner.

Be careful my friend! I would only take a standard gun that had been papered through the system in Illinois and other Occupied States! They WILL check and record serial numbers - and might not understand a "homebuilt" 1911 on an 80% frame. CC
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:59 AM
RandyP RandyP is offline
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No One 'checks' the firearm you will use for one of our CCW classes here in Illinois. Obviously anyone can see the gun you shoot in the qualification portion, but there is no asking for any sort of paper trail nonsense or serial number checking - lol - but if you are truly worried, just bring the 100% framed one to class.

I only CCW serial numbered handguns out in public just for simplicity if they are ever actually used and taken into evidence by the Police.
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Last edited by RandyP; 02-16-2020 at 01:06 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:00 AM
AirForceShooter AirForceShooter is offline
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My rule is CCW guns should come into the class of "throwaway" guns.
If I use it I'm pretty sure I'm never going to see it again.
A DA would be hrad pressed to use the argument that I designed and built a gun specifically to kill.

So, Glock, Springer that price.

AFS
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:16 AM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warp2diesel View Post
I have built several 1911s both from 4140 steel and Stainless. From both 80% and 100% frames. When I get time to take the class required in Illinois, is there a problem carrying a 1911 I have built?
it seems like you are the best one to answer that question, not someone who has never seen or fired them.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:43 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by AirForceShooter View Post
My rule is CCW guns should come into the class of "throwaway" guns.
If I use it I'm pretty sure I'm never going to see it again.
A DA would be hrad pressed to use the argument that I designed and built a gun specifically to kill.

So, Glock, Springer that price.

AFS
I can't imagine a more boring way to go through life, afraid to use nice things because you're worried something will happen to it.
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:53 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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I teach CCW. I don’t care what guns people use other than curiosity. No one checks serial numbers.

When I qualify, I always bring something “fun” and often pointless...something I would never carry. The shooting portion is to just demonstrate that you can safely use a gun.

The bigger question is this.....is it LEGAL to use this gun in Illinois??? What would happen if it were used in a shooting? The gun gets confiscated and you are now a felon.
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:15 AM
sparkyfender sparkyfender is offline
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I have no idea, hence no opinion, but I do find this to be an interesting topic.

I do believe that home built guns are on the radar of the anti movement and are coming under attack as being nefarious "ghost guns," but what isn't on their well funded radar these days?
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:33 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Are we supposed to keep a receipt after we buy a gun?

I immediately throw mine away... I would rather pay the consequences to the court than tell my wife how much I really paid. Let alone all the custom features I pay to make it a carry gun. Is that really a thing? Should I keep the receipt for modifications too?
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:53 AM
STORM2 STORM2 is online now
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Buy a gun.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:07 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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Originally Posted by HarryO45 View Post
Are we supposed to keep a receipt after we buy a gun?

I immediately throw mine away... I would rather pay the consequences to the court than tell my wife how much I really paid. Let alone all the custom features I pay to make it a carry gun. Is that really a thing? Should I keep the receipt for modifications too?
That's funny... I do keep the receipts but my wife doesn't have the safe combo.


These days she doesn't care but early in our marriage, there was some serious horse trading going on for big expenditures!
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:28 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Building your own gun and using it for concealed carry.....

I build my own guns for competition and self defense, and I start with 1911 frames or STI 2011 receivers.....and all of these have serial numbers. I don't have an FFL, so I order them through a local gun shop, they receive the frame, and I pay a transfer fee and the cost of the frame. I usually pay about a $30 transfer fee, however, some gun shops may charge a great deal more. I have used my home built guns for concealed carry and for IDPA, USPSA, and Action Steel competition. I have never sold the guns I have built, but if someone were to make and sell a numerous amount, the ATF could cause issues since a manufacturing license is required to make and sell guns as a business.

In my home state of Florida, buying a handgun frame with serial number is no different than purchasing a handgun.....a form 4473 still has to be filled out and signed.....
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:53 AM
azguy1911 azguy1911 is offline
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It doesn't matter, if by God you have to use it the least of your problems will be the type of gun, where it was bought, who built it, etc.

If it happens, keep your mouth shut (as in don't utter a single word) and have a good 2A lawyer on speed dial.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:17 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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The problem with deviating from any norm such as ammo, gun type or any other anomaly is the cost of defending that decision in court. At $800 an hour for attorney, how much are you willing to pay to defend your decision?

As a deputy I witnessed a couple of trials segments where hours were spent defending these types of issues.

Life is "tuff" enough without these kinds of complications!

Smiles,
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Last edited by jjfitch; 02-16-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:28 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warp2diesel View Post
I have built several 1911s both from 4140 steel and Stainless. From both 80% and 100% frames. When I get time to take the class required in Illinois, is there a problem carrying a 1911 I have built?
Do you have faith in your handiwork? If you do then carry with gusto.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:44 PM
Xhair Xhair is offline
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It sounds like your question can best be answered by a good lawyer if you are worried about legal exposure in the event it is used.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:47 PM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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You could apply for the correct FFL License and then be done with it.

I just submitted for a Class 3.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2020, 04:59 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Check your state and local laws. If registration is required , how do you register them? If you are simply pulled over and inform a LEO you are carrying , and they want to 'run the ser.no.' to see if it's registered or insure it's not stolen , you may have a problem if there's no ser.no.!
I know of several incidents where folks who were legally carrying pistols that were not 'registered' to them , had them confiscated and had to prove ownership to get them back.
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Last edited by mkk41; 02-16-2020 at 05:02 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:54 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Selling an 80% frame gun build without a serial #

The above link is worth reading for those that have or intend to build a firearm from an 80% frame or receiver. Although the above link is in regards to building an AR-15 (black rifle), it still sheds some light on the requirements of the ATF for personal built firearms.

The short answer is: no, you do not have to add serial numbers for an 80% build you have completed as a personal weapon.

The ATF recommendation: Add serial numbers in case your 80% build and finished gun is ever stolen or lost.....it may help to track the firearm in the future.

There is some misconstrued information on this thread. If a person has a non serialized handgun they built for personal use, if stopped by law enforcement, if the state where they reside requires registration and serial numbers on firearms, which I believe is required in California, then you may have to surrender the weapon.

However, the vast majority of law enforcement agencies in the U.S. can not confiscate a weapon unless there is "probable cause." In my home state of Florida, if a person has a concealed weapon permit, they can carry their handgun concealed on their person when driving in their car. If they don't have a concealed weapon permit, the gun must not be readily accessible. If a person does not have a CWP while driving their car, and the gun is laying on the seat beside them (readily accessible) they could have issues and citations if stopped by law enforcement....and possible confiscation of the weapon.

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 02-17-2020 at 04:57 AM.
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:29 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Some states....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Check your state and local laws. If registration is required , how do you register them? If you are simply pulled over and inform a LEO you are carrying , and they want to 'run the ser.no.' to see if it's registered or insure it's not stolen , you may have a problem if there's no ser.no.!
I know of several incidents where folks who were legally carrying pistols that were not 'registered' to them , had them confiscated and had to prove ownership to get them back.
In some states when issued a CPL/CCW the license only applies to the firearms listed on the permit. The gun's serial number is required for the permit.

Catch -22!
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Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!
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  #21  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:42 AM
TBM TBM is offline
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Go to GlockTalk.com, head to the forum, and post your question to the GATE Self Defense section. GATE = go ask the expert. You will get an answer from Mas Ayoob, who is a top expert witness, former law enforcement, etc. - he does respond to that forum, and I'd go with what he says. FWIW
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2020, 05:42 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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One point I would make on this thread.....

Be careful where you get legal advice to stuff like this. Because when you are handcuffed and you tell the cop “but I asked this guy on a forum called ‘1911guru’ and he said....“ It will be too late.

All my legal questions go to my attorney....USCCA.
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:50 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by WaterDR View Post
One point I would make on this thread.....

Be careful where you get legal advice to stuff like this. Because when you are handcuffed and you tell the cop “but I asked this guy on a forum called ‘1911guru’ and he said....“ It will be too late.

All my legal questions go to my attorney....USCCA.
Why would you throw money away on legal counsel when we have so many experts here offering the same advice for free. You could have spent that money on ammo!!! What is wrong with you man

OP if you have faith in your work then have at it.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:46 AM
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Johnny handgun Johnny handgun is offline
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Well, since I have been stopped more than my fair share of times, I have never been asked to see my weapon leet alone run my pistols serial number. They never ask me how many guns I ave or anything. They do know that I carry and they do not want you reaching for your firearm and I always keep both hands on top of the steering wheel. Once they ave talked to me they relax and everything is cool. The ones that have met me before are always friendly. I have no beef with peace officers.
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  #25  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:52 PM
LimaCharlie LimaCharlie is offline
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If you have to use you gun, the prosecutor in a criminal case or opposition lawyer in a civil case will try to use anything and everything against you regarding the gun, the caliber, the ammo, the way you carry it, etc. You should be ready to logically explain it or hire an expensive subject matter expert explain it. Defending yourself will be very expensive. I prefer to keep it as simple as possible.
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