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  #26  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:04 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
I'll only carry a really good gun, not a nice gun. Really good guns can be had for under a thousand.
Absolutely agree with this....
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:21 PM
tarosean tarosean is offline
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Originally Posted by Austin_TX View Post
On the contrary. Judging by the forums I visit, I think a lot of people worry about this too much.
odd phenomenon for sure... I often wonder if those same people conjure up getting bitten by a shark while living in Kansas, etc.?

People should spend more time training and practicing than dwelling about what happens after the fact.
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  #28  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:30 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by havanajim View Post
Beware of putting too much emphasis on a timer. Everything in life is a balance.
Sure, the gun has to hide perfectly as well as be totally comfortable all day. Everything past those personal needs can be quantified and guns can be entered into a spreadsheet and you can determine what is better. Cost can be factored in as well if needed
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:33 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
You’re very concerned with pure speed.....

That’s fine, usually doesn’t hurt. But I could show two documented instances where obsession with speed in training, did in fact ‘hurt’.

Speed is but one leg of the trifecta required to end things as much in your favor as possible. Speed for speed sake is great and fun, but as I’ve said before.....RARELY the deciding factor in gunfights.

I started seriously shooting with speed as a component in the early days of IPSC. Then into USPSA, then/ additionally IDPA. I carried a professionally for just over 40 years.

I’ll never knock speed, but it’s a component that generally gives you a bit of luxury in certain areas when the targets have guns as well.

We tend to want to transfer many of our ‘range goodies’ to situations when we carry. Some transfer well, others not so much.

Bottom line is there are some fight hardened folks walking the planet, many of them aren’t the fastest on the range, with the coolest gear. Reminder, I like fast, and I love cool gear. Was lucky enough to be sponsored for quite a few years.

But all’s well until the bullets or barstools start flying.......then ‘holding your mud’ comes into play in a big way.
Better gear is better gear more skill is more skill. Fast is only worth anything if you can hit, I judge guns by how quickly and easily they can give perfect hits in a given drill or use. Some guns simply can get a first shot faster than others with less user effort and far greater margin of error. Others not so much, those are all factors that can be objectively measured.

EDIT, you can also have very very particular requirements that automatically exclude certain options, if you must have freehanded accuracy of 1 inch or better at 15 yards then you probably will need a gun with a optic and a very good trigger and no matter how long you take in the clock with another gun it may never be able to do it. Other uses may require ability to shoot from within clothing so then a revolver becomes needed since a semi auto will be horridly long on clock due to having to clear malfunctions.
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Last edited by Striker2237; 02-14-2020 at 12:38 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:43 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
I'll only carry a really good gun, not a nice gun. Really good guns can be had for under a thousand.
Maybe ďgoodĒ, but necessarily a ďqualityĒ 1911, as too many donít know the difference.
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  #31  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:00 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
You’re very concerned with pure speed.....

That’s fine, usually doesn’t hurt. But I could show two documented instances where obsession with speed in training, did in fact ‘hurt’.

Speed is but one leg of the trifecta required to end things as much in your favor as possible. Speed for speed sake is great and fun, but as I’ve said before.....RARELY the deciding factor in gunfights.

I started seriously shooting with speed as a component in the early days of IPSC. Then into USPSA, then/ additionally IDPA. I carried a professionally for just over 40 years.

I’ll never knock speed, but it’s a component that generally gives you a bit of luxury in certain areas when the targets have guns as well.

We tend to want to transfer many of our ‘range goodies’ to situations when we carry. Some transfer well, others not so much.

Bottom line is there are some fight hardened folks walking the planet, many of them aren’t the fastest on the range, with the coolest gear. Reminder, I like fast, and I love cool gear. Was lucky enough to be sponsored for quite a few years.

But all’s well until the bullets or barstools start flying.......then ‘holding your mud’ comes into play in a big way.
Better gear is better gear more skill is more skill. Fast is only worth anything if you can hit, I judge guns by how quickly and easily they can give perfect hits in a given drill or use. Some guns simply can get a first shot faster than others with less user effort and far greater margin of error. Others not so much, those are all factors that can be objectively measured.

EDIT, you can also have very very particular requirements that automatically exclude certain options, if you must have freehanded accuracy of 1 inch or better at 15 yards then you probably will need a gun with a optic and a very good trigger and no matter how long you take in the clock with another gun it may never be able to do it. Other uses may require ability to shoot from within clothing so then a revolver becomes needed since a semi auto will be horridly long on clock due to having to clear malfunctions.
I already said speed is good. Good equipment is good......

Most any decent handgun, well under the price of semi or full customs are perfectly suitable for EDC.

We’re clearly looking at this from very different perspectives, that’s fine, but to try and head back to the OP’s question, you don’t need raw speed or $$$’s to drive the decision.

As others have rightly pointed out, you’ll need a few more $$$’s for a ‘good and serviceable’ 1911 than some other makes, but the choice is yours on how much you want to spend, so long as it meets your performance and budgetary standards.
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:09 PM
Enyalius11 Enyalius11 is offline
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Hope I never need to use mine for other than the range but if I had to, losing the gun would not be my top priority. From a $500 Springer to a $3000 Wilson, at their heart they’re still a tool for stopping people from doing bad things.

Besides, if you can afford a $4000 Cabot for edc, you could probably afford another. If you dumped every penny into just the one by eating saltine ketchup sandwiches only to lose it and survive a shooting then God is telling you to stop and buy a steak. Tomorrow is never promised.
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:10 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Originally Posted by Enyalius11 View Post
Hope I never need to use mine for other than the range but if I had to, losing the gun would not be my top priority. From a $500 Springer to a $3000 Wilson, at their heart they’re still a tool for stopping people from doing bad things.

Besides, if you can afford a $4000 Cabot for edc, you could probably afford another. If you dumped every penny into just the one by eating saltine ketchup sandwiches only to lose it and survive a shooting then God is telling you to stop and buy a steak. Tomorrow is never promised.
Well said!:-)
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:35 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
You’re very concerned with pure speed.....

That’s fine, usually doesn’t hurt. But I could show two documented instances where obsession with speed in training, did in fact ‘hurt’.

Speed is but one leg of the trifecta required to end things as much in your favor as possible. Speed for speed sake is great and fun, but as I’ve said before.....RARELY the deciding factor in gunfights.

I started seriously shooting with speed as a component in the early days of IPSC. Then into USPSA, then/ additionally IDPA. I carried a professionally for just over 40 years.

I’ll never knock speed, but it’s a component that generally gives you a bit of luxury in certain areas when the targets have guns as well.

We tend to want to transfer many of our ‘range goodies’ to situations when we carry. Some transfer well, others not so much.

Bottom line is there are some fight hardened folks walking the planet, many of them aren’t the fastest on the range, with the coolest gear. Reminder, I like fast, and I love cool gear. Was lucky enough to be sponsored for quite a few years.

But all’s well until the bullets or barstools start flying.......then ‘holding your mud’ comes into play in a big way.
Better gear is better gear more skill is more skill. Fast is only worth anything if you can hit, I judge guns by how quickly and easily they can give perfect hits in a given drill or use. Some guns simply can get a first shot faster than others with less user effort and far greater margin of error. Others not so much, those are all factors that can be objectively measured.

EDIT, you can also have very very particular requirements that automatically exclude certain options, if you must have freehanded accuracy of 1 inch or better at 15 yards then you probably will need a gun with a optic and a very good trigger and no matter how long you take in the clock with another gun it may never be able to do it. Other uses may require ability to shoot from within clothing so then a revolver becomes needed since a semi auto will be horridly long on clock due to having to clear malfunctions.
I already said speed is good. Good equipment is good......

Most any decent handgun, well under the price of semi or full customs are perfectly suitable for EDC.

We’re clearly looking at this from very different perspectives, that’s fine, but to try and head back to the OP’s question, you don’t need raw speed or $$$’s to drive the decision.

As others have rightly pointed out, you’ll need a few more $$$’s for a ‘good and serviceable’ 1911 than some other makes, but the choice is yours on how much you want to spend, so long as it meets your performance and budgetary standards.
I believe you are looking at it from the "good gear will get the job done with user skill at redouble cost" perspective? I'm looking at it from absolute performance cost be dammed, I do agree a G19 or a 43x with a 15 rounder will get it done......just won't ever do so as well as other options.

1911s are weird since the $1000 or so ones are out performed by modified Glocks or CZs for the same price and reliability is spotty at time, they have a disproportionate increase in reliability and performance vs the other brands once you go past $2000 and basically start standing without equal at the top level
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  #35  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:19 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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My current EDC is a special order NH Bull Commander. It works and works well.
I’ve run it thru a few classes. Cost was only an issue to me when buying it. The gun I carried before it was a WC Pro in stainless. The cost of my EDC and whether or not it will get taken for whatever reason if God forbid I have to use it to defend myself doesn’t matter to me. They can have it and I’ll just load up one of my other guns to use in the meantime.
I know people who have had their guns taken for numerous reasons. Here in Florida they don’t engrave case numbers on the gun or anything else. They actually take pretty good care of them and put them in a small cardboard box that holds them quite well. When they got the gun back it was fine.
The only time when a gun that was taken got damaged that I know of was decades ago when my older brother was arrested for agg assault w/firearm. LONG story short he was acquitted and thru their own testimony his accusers incriminated themselves during the trial and wound up getting charged themselves. The damage to the gun occurred because for some strange reason they had the gun, magazine and rounds he was carrying in it all together in a plastic evidence bag. The prosecutor kept trying to make a case of the fact he was carrying JHPs in it and was some sort of psycho for doing it. In his efforts he kept shaking the gun up and down in front of the jury. The rounds and mag scratched the piss out of the gun. I still remember the jury being out deliberating whether or not my brother was going to be found guilty or not which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of no less than 3yrs and all he was worried about was ‘that damn prosecutor scratched my gun!!’
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  #36  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:47 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Cry over the $$$ spent on a gun or have your family cry at your funeral. You pick.

If you get a dui and have your gun taken then you are an idiot and deserve what you get.

It is like the people who park their new car at the end of the lot to avoid scratches. Cars and edc guns are daily use items. They will get scratched, damaged and stolen/confiscated. If you can't handle that then carry a blow gun and take the bus.
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:50 PM
simonp67 simonp67 is offline
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When it comes to a gun, a 1911 that may save my or my loved ones lives Iím not going to skimp. I have guns from Chuck Rogers & John Jardine because I know that they work every time! I stick with those smiths because of their skills & because I consider them friends. I donít know how much each of them cost, in the thousands & frankly if the worse day of my life comes knocking itís one of those guns that will be in my hand, if it saves lives thatís all the care about. If I donít get it back, money well spent, comes back scratched Iíll have it buffed, comes back with a number then so be it. Itís a tool.

Someone only wants to carry a Glock in case itís taken, personal choice and Iíve no issues with it. Someone has a safe full of reliable, proven 1911ís that each cost thousands, babies them, only takes them to the range & only carries a sub $1,000 plastic wonder in case he has to use it - I question their priorities. In the end though itís a free country, carry what you like.


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  #38  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:09 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Mine cost much more than one K. It has been modified to what I like. I am far more worried about not winning in a fight, than what I lose after a fight. I am not rich, but I have been a gear head my whole life. I have always valued an equipment edge in everything I do.
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  #39  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:11 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Timex vs Rolex?

Price doesn't mean didily. There's $300 guns that are better suited for EDC than a $3500 Kustom Kombat 1911.

I'm perplexed by those guys who seem to trade in his EDC of the month for something else , every month. Often coincides with what's hot in the gun magazines.

I don't buy something I don't like , as such , I don't get rid of many , if any at all. Gotta get used to a gun before I fully trust it , and us old gun owners get attached.

Yes , if you do use it in a defensive shooting , justifiable or not , you probably won't see that gun for a long time , if ever again.

Another reason I retired my old Colt Combat Commander which has been personalized over many years , in favor of a $300 Para Expert Lightweight. It's been accurate and reliable , and lighter than my old Colt. And it's UGLY! But it has gotten a few small 'beauty marks' along the way. But I could never become attached to it.


Or have I already?
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:15 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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I'm continually amazed at folks who worry about:

A. A scratch on a gun, or.....

B. Confiscation of said gun in a shooting investigation.

Silly.
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  #41  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:20 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Timex vs Rolex?

Price doesn't mean didily. There's $300 guns that are better suited for EDC than a $3500 Kustom Kombat 1911.

I'm perplexed by those guys who seem to trade in his EDC of the month for something else , every month. Often coincides with what's hot in the gun magazines.

I don't buy something I don't like , as such , I don't get rid of many , if any at all. Gotta get used to a gun before I fully trust it , and us old gun owners get attached.

Yes , if you do use it in a defensive shooting , justifiable or not , you probably won't see that gun for a long time , if ever again. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/bawling.gif[/IMG]

Another reason I retired my old Colt Combat Commander which has been personalized over many years , in favor of a $300 Para Expert Lightweight. It's been accurate and reliable , and lighter than my old Colt. And it's UGLY! But it has gotten a few small 'beauty marks' along the way. But I could never become attached to it.


Or have I already? [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]
If your $300 gun beats mine in anything you can have my gun. Guns are tools, some are good enough for casual or light work others will last far beyond others and do a better job the entire time.

Plus I've sent over 5x the cost of my gun down it's barrel so really the gun is the cheapest part of any of it for some people who really train.

The EDC handgun is literally the tool that I think people should be THE most critical about and take no compromises since any edge it provides may very well mean you don't die.
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  #42  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:45 PM
GTTom GTTom is offline
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I’m not wealthy but how much my EDC costs means zero to me when I carry. It doesn’t matter whether it’s my $500 Sig 365 or $2800 highly optioned EDC X9. If it fits the need at the time for carry: situation, concealment, dress, activity etc. it’s what I carry. If I’m In a defensive situation and survived, the EDC did it’s job and I’m alive I will be grateful. Whatever I paid for the weapon will be money well spent and the very least of my worries would be if I get it back unscathed. I carry what I can shoot well and have confidence in. Let’s keep this in perspective. If you just killed another human being in self defense do you really think your biggest concern is how much you spent on your gun? Whether is a “good” shoot or goes to trial and drags out, your emotional, mental, financial investment in the outcome will likely pale in comparison to getting you gun back with scratches.
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  #43  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:02 PM
simonp67 simonp67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
I'm continually amazed at folks who worry about:



A. A scratch on a gun, or.....



B. Confiscation of said gun in a shooting investigation.



Silly.


Exactly


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  #44  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:08 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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THE most critical thing people should consider if they carry any gun anytime, but especially in public, has far more to do with all aspects of training with said gun, not the gun itself.

All aspects of shooting, moving, use of cover, Target ID, blah, blah, blah.....again, you’d be surprised how many have been laid out for good with crappy old rattle traps.

I applaud your fine taste in pistols, as well as your obvious dedication to your skill using them. I’m also saying there’s a lot more to consider than the hardware ( and I’ve spent some crazy $$$ on guns) as opposed to the effort that needs to be hardwired.
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  #45  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:40 PM
tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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I buy the best guns I can for EDC. If a $2k gun is what it takes, then that's what I'll do. Fortunately, I haven't spent that much on a 1911...yet...
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  #46  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:47 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
The EDC handgun is literally the tool that I think people should be THE most critical about and take no compromises since any edge it provides may very well mean you don't die.
Applying deadly force to defend yourself is 99% a matter of YOU and only 1% of the gun itself. I don't care if it's a .22 pistol as long as you have the training and the mindset needed to deploy it effectively. A defense gun needs to be absolutely reliable, but all the other things we gun nuts like to argue about is mostly sweating the small stuff. I don't care if its cheap, or if it's expensive, as long as it runs reliably, you're good with it and you're able to carry it nearly all the time.

And to folks who fret over scratches or loss of their EDC gun as evidence, I present this solution: buy two of them. One to carry, and one to train with. If one breaks down or is lost to you for any reason you have an instant backup waiting in your safe.
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  #47  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:58 PM
mosteve mosteve is offline
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My carry and work sidearms are tools, if i'm ever lucky enough to not lose in an altercation, I can buy another one if it goes to evidence, I like to think I would be thankful to be alive and not worrying about how it gets treated in the evidence locker. JMHO.
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  #48  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:12 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
I buy the best guns I can for EDC. If a $2k gun is what it takes, then that's what I'll do. Fortunately, I haven't spent that much on a 1911...yet...
‘Yet’ being the key word:-) give it time😂
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  #49  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:14 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I imagine that it's very expensive replace a new car's Airbags.

So perhaps it would be wise to install some cheap airbags, from a wrecking yard, and keep your nice bags at home in a safe.

Because we all know, that when that Mack Truck jackknife's across the median, airbag replacement costs are out first concern.
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  #50  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:12 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
If your $300 gun beats mine in anything you can have my gun. Guns are tools, some are good enough for casual or light work others will last far beyond others and do a better job the entire time.

Plus I've sent over 5x the cost of my gun down it's barrel so really the gun is the cheapest part of any of it for some people who really train.

The EDC handgun is literally the tool that I think people should be THE most critical about and take no compromises since any edge it provides may very well mean you don't die.
Back in my scuba days I always had top notch equipment. 150 feet down deep inside a wreck is not the time to go cheap. Same with my bailout gear. It was just as good as my primary.

While I don't own any high dollar guns the ones I have are of good quality.
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