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  #26  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:22 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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I routinely carry a G19, or a G48 or a G43. However, right now I've got a Colt CCO 45 on my hip. Go figure... At any rate, the thing about Glocks, for me, is the care required when re-holstering. Care is always required with any gun, but Glocks will shoot you in the leg or foot if you get some clothing or other extraneous material around the gun and in the trigger guard as you're shoving it into the holster. Shoving a Glock into a holster is not the procedure. Carefully placing it into the holster while you literally also look it into the holster is the procedure to follow. Once they're in the holster, assuming one that is correctly fitting, they're safe.
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:06 AM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I'd only sell a Hi Power to get a plastic carry gun if I, financially, HAD to sell it.

Otherwise I'd buy the Glocky thing & KEEP the Browning as well.

Because, to me, steel guns of classic design are things that you keep------------ Forever.

The practical, modern police type stuff comes & goes like Toyotas. Hey, I have a Tacoma & it's great. But I wouldn't sell a 4 Speed GTO for one, unless I really HAD to.
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  #28  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:51 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is online now
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Glocks work, but so do Hi Powers. The Hi Power is heavier, but it fits my hand better, so I use it. I did get a Glock 19x recently, and its grown on me. At first, I thought it was silly putting a 17 length grip on a 19 was silly, but then I shot it.
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:09 AM
Tenagain Tenagain is offline
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Not saying I'll never own a Glock, but my tobuy list has everything except a Hipoint ahead of it. I'm sure they work as well as any good gun but I would just rather carry a gun that appeals to my eye all other things being equal.... or even close to equal. If it were me I'd pick a Hi Power or use them in rotation and use the block..er..ah... Glock as a truck gun. Hell, even if you need to go plastic for some un-Godly reason there are SOOOOO many better looking Tupperware guns out there. Get a hold of yourself man. Just because a gun is a tool doesn't mean it has to look like one!!!!!
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:57 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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I have a G23 and a G42. Both very reliable and good shooters. My only issue is the G23 is so thick it's difficult to conceal. The G42 I carry in a pocket holster in my front pocket comfortably. The only issue is that it's a.380 and just 6 rounds. I always carry a second mag with it. I might as well carry my BHP lightweight model. Lighter and more rounds. Final thought: Glock might be plastic but millions of police and security carry them.
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  #31  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:05 PM
Tenagain Tenagain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarkmac View Post
Final thought: Glock might be plastic but millions of police and security carry them.

Ever hear of a lemming?
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:47 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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In response to the "Lemming" comment, I do not believe that using a Glock is harmful, dangerous or stupid. Do you have any proof that Glocks are?
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:05 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
I thought it was silly putting a 17 length grip on a 19 was silly
Silly, and redundant.

As for police being lemmings, understand how government bidding processes work. A list of requirements is drawn up, eligible candidates are tested, and then price bidding ensues between the qualified candidates. Glocks have filled the majority of law enforcement holsters because they are the best at winning bidding wars. It's pretty hard for an agency to justify why they went with Berettas or HKs when the Glocks met all the criteria and came back with the lowest bid by far. In the computer world this is why Dell and HP rule corporations nationwide and why everyone else has long since gone out of business. They offered pricing and support nobody else could match, selling large business contracts at a loss just to undercut the competition and drive them away.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:15 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Glocks are excellent guns for the "Common Man" (assuming you are just "common"). I am issued one, so I carry it daily, and I do feel competently armed. But off duty, I only carry 1911s - it's just the better weapon, and more commonly found in serious calibers. (And I don't consider 9MM worthy of protecting MY Life with - your mileage may vary. A .36 caliber bullet has to get over 1300 fps to be taken seriously - and that is hard to do in a 9, particularly with less than a 4" barrel.)

And I speak from considerable Glock knowledge - I am a Glock Armorer and Instructor, by the way. In my opinion, most of the new Age "Plastic Fantastics" are excellent "lowest common denominator" weapons - basically serving as a box feed revolver for lower dedication operators. But they are "trendy" so, like horrible modern music, people smile and buy them. They just don't know what they are missing.....

Make no mistake, I do own a couple of Glocks myself - a practice duplicate (M22) of my duty gun (with an extra .357 SIG barrel), that I qualify expert with every year and a Glock 20 just because I love 10MM guns. But from my point of view, Plastic has no soul, they are disposable - and they are blocky, fat, and the trigger and grip angle suck. The lousy trigger alone is reason enough to not carry one unless you have to....

Sadly, unlike a 1911 - none of them will make their hundredth birthday - the plastic will break down, over time. I have two M1911s that are past their 100th year, and just as capable of "taking care of business" tonight as they were the day they left Hartford. And probably will still be ready to go, anytime in the next hundred years, too. I monitor trends and fads - I only adopt them if I see a real improvement. I don't see that here.
And yes, I'm sure the folks on Glocktalk would be more receptive! CC
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  #35  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:16 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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Still waiting on proof that Glocks are bad wespons.
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  #36  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:50 PM
FullySupported FullySupported is offline
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I 100% agree that a nice 1911 is far nicer than any polymer-framed (aka plastic) gun, in terms of aesthetics and long-term heirloom value. I also know plastic tends to break down with time, especially when left in the sun.

However, not all plastic is the same. Surely, there is solid information out there on how long, in terms of years, not round count, Glocks and other plastic guns will last? Maybe they will last 100 years too?

Maybe in a 100 years, our robot descendants will fondle our old Glocks and beep to each other that you just can't find historic formulas of plastic like that anymore. Then, they will go back to shooting their rail guns at defunct satellites for fun.
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:57 PM
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On the subject of plastic and longevity, like steel there are different kinds. The oldest Glocks out there are nearly 40 years old, and I have yet to hear of any early Glock frame that has begun to degrade with age. I do know some of the early plastic guns like Remington Nylon 66s from the 1960s have suffered age-related issues, but those were made of an entirely different type of material. Modern polymers and glass-filled resins used to make handgun frames appear to be very durable and resilient... and they don't rust. Just as there are 100+ year-old 1911s out there that are still fit for duty, there are some that are badly corroded or have cracks and are no longer safe to shoot.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:41 AM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
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Forgive me father, for I have sinned
Its OK, my child. Say three "Hail Mary's" and two "Our Fathers".

Now pull your pants down...and don't say anything to mommy or daddy or God will kill them!!
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  #39  
Old 02-15-2020, 01:07 AM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Deleted. Cross posted my threads. At least I didn't cross thread something on my AR.
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  #40  
Old 02-15-2020, 01:27 AM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
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Originally Posted by amos iron wolf View Post

to get back to the original subject instead of the usual poly/metal frame religious dialogues. How much should you spend on an edc gun?

Obviously, despite what one might think from various posts on here, not everyone has significant disposable income. Not everyone can happily just decide on a whim, or even with a short term plan, to pick up a wilson, spend over 1k on a firearm, or happily buy pallet loads of ammo just because they saw a special online. It's nice for those who can do those things, but for many who still appreciate 1911s and a variety of firearms, including me, we can't.


<snip>


personally, i'd miss any of my guns that ended up in evidence. Then again, i'm a po boy and even a $500 gun is a hit to me. Oh, i got that p220 i love so much used a few years back at a gun shop for $495. To me it's one of my favorites and dear to me. I'd also want it back because it proved itself. I'd want the gun back that saved my fourth point of contact. It would definitely have some sentimental value then.

Essentially, think of it like gambling or investing. Some will say it's the same thing. The basics in each is don't go in with anything you aren't able or can't afford to lose. Same for the sidearm. As long as it meets the criteria for you then whatever that gun costs is what is should cost for you.


ArE yOu SuRe YoU'rE pOsTiNg In ThE rIgHt ThReAd, BrO??
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Last edited by Flight Medic; 02-15-2020 at 01:33 AM.
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  #41  
Old 02-15-2020, 03:53 AM
OttoLoader OttoLoader is offline
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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
Glocks are harder to master as regards accurate shooting, just as fast accurate DAO revolver shooting is the hardest of all handgun disciplines. Too many people want to "milk" a Glock trigger and that never works for accuracy. You need a quick clean press.
How many rounds did it take for you to get to the point that you are satisfied with your Glock?

Did you ever have low left hits assuming right handed?
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:43 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tenagain View Post
Not saying I'll never own a Glock, but my tobuy list has everything except a Hipoint ahead of it. I'm sure they work as well as any good gun but I would just rather carry a gun that appeals to my eye all other things being equal.... or even close to equal. If it were me I'd pick a Hi Power or use them in rotation and use the block..er..ah... Glock as a truck gun. Hell, even if you need to go plastic for some un-Godly reason there are SOOOOO many better looking Tupperware guns out there. Get a hold of yourself man. Just because a gun is a tool doesn't mean it has to look like one!!!!!
This is a good point to remember. Yeah, Gaston came up with a good idea, but instead of continuing to lead the pack from an innovation standpoint, they just sit there and change numbers on their square guns. The competition with plastic guns has caught up and run all over them.
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:47 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Originally Posted by ozarkmac View Post
Still waiting on proof that Glocks are bad wespons.
No one said they are. They are boring, ugly, and just not anything to get excited about. Far too many other options that at least have a bit of style.
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:50 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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The sin runs deep in you...
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:53 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is online now
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My only real gripe about Glock, is that their grip shape still seems unrefined. Most modern handguns (and many old ones for that matter) have grip shapes that are made to fit comfortably in the human hand. Glock's grip, even after 5 different revisions, still seems like an afterthought in the design process.
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  #46  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:01 AM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
Glocks work, but so do Hi Powers. The Hi Power is heavier, but it fits my hand better, so I use it. I did get a Glock 19x recently, and its grown on me. At first, I thought it was silly putting a 17 length grip on a 19 was silly, but then I shot it.
Yep, I agreed until I held one. Best Glock design in my opinion. Then again, my favorite 1911 for the balance and sight picture is the 4" barrel full grip, bobtailed if possible. The commander works fine too, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
My only real gripe about Glock, is that their grip shape still seems unrefined. Most modern handguns (and many old ones for that matter) have grip shapes that are made to fit comfortably in the human hand. Glock's grip, even after 5 different revisions, still seems like an afterthought in the design process.
Luckily for me the full size Glocks fit my hands like a glove, especially Gen 4/5 with the medium beavertail, it's like my hands were the mold they used. My 21 feels better in my hand than some 1911s, in pure comfort.

The one that doesnt fit as comfortable is the compact (19/23/etc) frame, feels funny and the grooves and lines just don't fit my hand right, but I might shoot them best of the lot, so comfort and fit are not always inextricably linked.

I've owned and shot most of the plastic competitors and the Glocks just work for me best. Plenty of others I like quite a bit; the APX, PPQ, VP9 and M&P w/APEX are some standouts, but none of them shoot well enough in my hands to replace the Glocks I own in the "ugly plastic beatup and not care if they get damaged or lost category".
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  #47  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:30 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
ArE yOu SuRe YoU'rE pOsTiNg In ThE rIgHt ThReAd, BrO??
That's what happens when I get to posting in the wee hours when I should be in bed. Wrong thread. I can't even blame it on drinking. I'll have to use what my old manager who didn't really speak English said.

Es el edad.

I could cut and paste it to the correct one, but a few people already hit the key points over there so I'll just have to go delete the original. All that pontificating wasted.
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  #48  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:42 PM
Boge Boge is offline
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
This is a good point to remember. Yeah, Gaston came up with a good idea, but instead of continuing to lead the pack from an innovation standpoint, they just sit there and change numbers on their square guns. The competition with plastic guns has caught up and run all over them.
Gaston lives in a castle with a hot young wife and has a personal fortune of approx. $1.5 BILLION. Then there is Colt hobbling along to it's next bankruptcy/reorganization. Who's winning, chief?
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  #49  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:26 PM
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
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Originally Posted by Boge View Post

Gaston lives in a castle with a hot young wife and has a personal fortune of approx. $1.5 BILLION. Then there is Colt hobbling along to it's next bankruptcy/reorganization. Who's winning, chief?
Google and Facebook are winning. $1.5B wont even buy you a seat at their table. But there's no denying Glock is a success, and their pistols are the Honda Accord of firearms.
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Last edited by Flight Medic; 02-15-2020 at 09:30 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:39 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Ah yes, good old Materialism - whoever makes the most Money MUST be Right! Gaston dumped his wife - who helped him get to fame and fortune - for a hot Trophy Wife - another proof of good character winning! (I guess that means Bloomberg is your Man for 2020, Right? )

Glock is winning because, instead of training up real men based on proven standards to meet the need, building up warriors with a height/weight requirement, etc., to be cops, we now hire based on the "Diversity Quota". A 1911 is a bit too complicated for that Demographic, and so a "plastic, box fed revolver" became the answer - and the Glock was in the right place at the right time. Lower standards, NOT better or even Equal to the old.

Does anyone here remember all the "Police Trade In" Glocks (Glocks returned to the factory in droves which did not run brand new) sold off cheap even when they were less than two years old? My Department got early Glock 22s - three quarters of which would not work reliably - traded them for the then new Model 21 - and half of them didn't work, either - we had to send the slides in for remachining. NYPD was days from canceling Glocks contract over M19 failures when Glock finally agreed to fix them. I changed out about thirty M22 frames myself on new Glocks when the frame tabs were breaking off of them. Am I OK with the Glock I am carrying? Yes, but I am under no illusions that the Glock is perfect - or in any way superior to a good 1911.

Old news - and new news to some of you - Glocks from 3rd Gen on are OK, but not a gift from the Gods. Like any other company, they have had their problems. But they were riding a wave of good timing in the market, changing times and the acceptance of less, and from a purely material standpoint, yes, they have made money.


Then there is the "Cheap pushes out Good" factor. Plastic is definitely cheaper than steel. But I don't think anyone will be collecting plastic guns 100 years from now - because I don't think the materials will last that long. Every look at an old plastic lawn chair?
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