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View Poll Results: a 22 cal rifle or pistol if SHTF would be my?
22 cal would not be first choice 351 75.81%
22 cal is my first choice 112 24.19%
Voters: 463. You may not vote on this poll

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  #251  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:52 PM
JVtater JVtater is offline
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Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
Probably more germane to the dialog here are the nihilistic assumptions of the SHTF folks.
ALL firearms without ammo are worthless unless they can be employed as a club or bayonet holder.
Ergo nearly ALL firearms, in a SHTF scenario, will eventually be worthless.
Unless you can make your own black powder, mold balls and shape flints.
That would make an obsolete flintlock far superior to any AR or AK or even a .22 because you'd actually be able to shoot it.
X 1000

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  #252  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:54 PM
JVtater JVtater is offline
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I remember reading somewhere years ago. About folks in the musket days retrieving their shot balls to reuse them.

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  #253  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:55 PM
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In the early 1800s when percussion rifles came into being the western trappers and mountain men nearly always preferred to keep using flintlocks instead. You could always find flint somewhere, but if you ran out of percussion caps while out in the boonies you were screwed. Probably the best argument for a .22 as a survival firearm is simply the fact that you can store or carry enough ammunition to hopefully last you for the duration. If you're thinking that you're going to have to survive on your own for years on end however no amount of .22 ammo will likely be enough.
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  #254  
Old 02-27-2019, 10:43 PM
Top Cover Top Cover is offline
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You May Be Right, but Consider ....

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Originally Posted by Russ Jackson View Post
So I keep hearing this survival advice that if the power goes out, shtf, or any of the other scenarios of doom that a Ruger 10/22 or some other form of 22 pistol or long gun is the best for survival as a must have or first pick gun. You can carry a lot of ammo as it is light and you can still defend yourself and family if need be. And also use it to hunt for small game and even big game if you are a good shot.

Personally I think if the SHTF. Hunting will be useless as I am sure people will kill just about everything alive so fast that that option will be gone in a month or less. Any city deer and other small game will disappear as soon as the first shot goes out. 330 million hungry people have to eat and if they have to I am betting they will eat just about anything. Including each other. Dogs and Cats will become quite valuable. Any local farms with any livestock will be attacked or defended by groups of people and a 22 will get you nowhere. If it goes past 3 weeks I am thinking a 22 will be just about useless. You will need to defend your food,water,shelter and heat.

Sorry but this ability to carry 1000 rounds of 22 rimfire vs a couple hundred rounds of 45 cal or a shotgun with 3 or four pockets full of shells. I am taking the 45 or shotgun.

Am I right or wrong?
Most folks don't even know about where food comes from except the grocery store. I worked with liberals who thought that all I did to bag a deer was stop my truck, get out point (not even aim) my rifle at the woods and the deer fall dead. Some even thought that to shot someone you just look at that person and the gun does all the work. Now those folks will starve.

As for the rest of the critical thinking goes they all think the DNC will save them. I for one am for leaving them in the dark, and those who truly seek survival knowledge I will help. Choice of caliber I can't help you with that, but we have our spots to go to in TSHF happens, and my truck will haul quite a bit of supplies, food and ammo. Hopefully enough till thing settle down.

That's my 2 cents worth, i could be wrong. Cheers

Last edited by Top Cover; 02-27-2019 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #255  
Old 02-28-2019, 01:01 AM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
In the early 1800s when percussion rifles came into being the western trappers and mountain men nearly always preferred to keep using flintlocks instead. You could always find flint somewhere, but if you ran out of percussion caps while out in the boonies you were screwed. Probably the best argument for a .22 as a survival firearm is simply the fact that you can store or carry enough ammunition to hopefully last you for the duration. If you're thinking that you're going to have to survive on your own for years on end however no amount of .22 ammo will likely be enough.
Oh, I don't know. 20,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition when only shot at people or game could last a very very long time. And I have spoken with lots of people that have twice that amount.
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  #256  
Old 02-28-2019, 04:50 AM
JVtater JVtater is offline
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Originally Posted by toofew1911s View Post
Oh, I don't know. 20,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition when only shot at people or game could last a very very long time. And I have spoken with lots of people that have twice that amount.
Dang sure better then chunkin rocks

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  #257  
Old 02-28-2019, 02:52 PM
Jerry799 Jerry799 is offline
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Originally Posted by toofew1911s View Post
Oh, I don't know. 20,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition when only shot at people or game could last a very very long time. And I have spoken with lots of people that have twice that amount.
Actually I have around 3x that amount... I learned my lesson after the great Obama ammo drought.

Last edited by Jerry799; 02-28-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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  #258  
Old 02-28-2019, 08:03 PM
CASSRH CASSRH is offline
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I live on a pretty good size chunk of land, and if I had to "live off the land", I'd probably starve. It's the city folks that will cause the problems. At my age, I'd last maybe a week.
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  #259  
Old 03-01-2019, 06:23 PM
earlwb earlwb is online now
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Well there have been a few instances of a crazy person using a .22LR gun to kill a number of people. The little .22 bullets apparently work quite well at closer ranges under 25 yards. So it may not be a bad idea to carry one, as you can carry a awful lot of ammo for it. Granted if you run across a bunch of armed thugs, it may not be suitable, but then it probably won't matter anymore by then.
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  #260  
Old 03-02-2019, 09:21 AM
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Like any other weapon, you have to use it to really appreciate its capabilities. I have been spending $ on .22's as of late, having bought a few more thousand rds. I also built a 22lr AR from a lower I had in the safe to having just bought a CZ .22 Mag. Still a 22, but almost twice the muzzle velocity, ammo dependent.
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  #261  
Old 03-02-2019, 09:42 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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IMHO it really depends on the terrain and situation.
A .22lr might be the best, most efficient tool for the job.
It all depends.
A SHTF scenario is only that---a fiction.
A real world SHTF situation that may present it's self is, as yet, an unknown.

It could be the a 105mm Howitzer is the most efficient tool for the job,
but for most of us a .22 and a few bricks is cheap insurance should the little .22 fill the bill, while a 105mm and a magazine of artillery shells is simply not an option.
My 2-cents, anyway.
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  #262  
Old 03-02-2019, 10:06 AM
JVtater JVtater is offline
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Imho
It Will be as useful then as it is now.


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  #263  
Old 03-02-2019, 01:21 PM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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If the shtf, I would arm one daughter and even granddaughter if need be with a .22 rifle 15 25 round mags and a .22 pistol only 7 10 round mags as they now how to shoot them well. Other daughter would get a 9mm pcc, 6 33 rd mags and 2 31, and 9mm pistol with 3 27 round mags and 2 23, she is deadly and fast with them. If things got really bad I'd hand her an AR. Probably have 15 or 20 mags for them I'd have an AR or a Garand with 20 clips of .308 and probably a G22 with 5 mags. Standing by would be a 357 lever gun and several other .22 rifles with lots of mags. If I could hit anything with it, a mosin as well. Only have maybe 10k of .22. That would go fast in a firefight. It would take longer to reload mags than anything. I need to reload more ammo and buy more .22 I think. More mags too. That's the shtf fantasy, reality is we would probably hide in the corner.
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  #264  
Old 03-02-2019, 04:59 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Originally Posted by Andyk View Post
If the shtf, I would arm one daughter and even granddaughter if need be with a .22 rifle 15 25 round mags and a .22 pistol only 7 10 round mags as they now how to shoot them well. Other daughter would get a 9mm pcc, 6 33 rd mags and 2 31, and 9mm pistol with 3 27 round mags and 2 23, she is deadly and fast with them. If things got really bad I'd hand her an AR. Probably have 15 or 20 mags for them I'd have an AR or a Garand with 20 clips of .308 and probably a G22 with 5 mags. Standing by would be a 357 lever gun and several other .22 rifles with lots of mags. If I could hit anything with it, a mosin as well. Only have maybe 10k of .22. That would go fast in a firefight. It would take longer to reload mags than anything. I need to reload more ammo and buy more .22 I think. More mags too. That's the shtf fantasy, reality is we would probably hide in the corner.
I had a prof in college that survived WW2 Poland, if you'll accept that as a legit SHTF situation.
He had a Radom parabellum only because that is what he had, a spare belonging to his army officer dad who was executed---there was nothing else. You make due.
In that situation, you avoid fire fights. Occupying forces want any resistance dead. Going up against machine guns and hand grenades won't end well.
Handguns, the smaller and more concealable the better, are preferred. You don't walk around with a long gun because occupying forces want any resistance dead.
You only want enough ammunition you can easily carry and hide so no one finds it because occupying forces want any resistance dead.

After the occupation it was mob rule.
Full automatic firearms and lots of ammo then were preferred to deal with the hooligans, who weren't as well trained as the Nazi and Communist Armies.

That was his story, anyway. YMMV.
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  #265  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:39 AM
brad55 brad55 is offline
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I'm a big fan of 22LR. A lot of past generations and about half a billion folk in the 3rd world still feed themselves with one. Thats pretty much the end of the discussion as those folks are living a version of what we would see as SHTF already.

It will kill small, but also medium and even large game with headshots( worse case) 50-75 yards. You wont be shooting at all your favorite angles and you won't be getting any awards for ethics, but a 22LR will penetrate 2" of pine, which covers a lot of skulls in the animal kingdom when you are hungry.

At the price you can buy 22LR, 20,000 rounds will keep you shooting long after the centrefire runs out.

The other advantage is 22LR weighs only .7lbs per 100 rounds. 223 is 3.5lbs, 308 is 5+lbs. If you are bugging out on foot forever it is the only ammo type you can carry several thousand rounds. Or if loading the truck to bug out forever, a lifetime supply fits in a suitcase.

As to its lethality, its no 223 but check out some of the vids on youtube, you'd be suprised what a 22LR will penetrate and at what range it will be lethal.

22LR through windsheild
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFvrqCG118

22LR enough velocity to penetrate skull at 400 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUM1r_444CY

22LR 12" ballistic gel penetration at 300 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUM1r_444CY

22LR through 10 layers dry wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSVn7ozXTQ

22LR complete broadside exits on deer skill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW2C3exp0R4

No this doesnt prove you can win wars with a 22LR or shoot your moose next season with one, but it does prove a guy with a 10/22 is not someone you want to running up against, when your centrefire runs out
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  #266  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:54 PM
brad55 brad55 is offline
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2/3 of the world lives in what we would consider some form of SHTF aka, the 3rd world. A lot of 22's in their rural areas getting small and medium game, slaughtering farm animals,providing protection from pests.
I like the idea a lifetime supply is affordable and fits in a suitcase, weighs 7lbs per 1000(223 is 30lbs, 308 is 50+lbs), so its about the only calibre you can walk out with a years supply of ammo on your back if you need to. As to its effectiveness, it is what it is, but 22R will still penetrate 2" of pine, it will defend to 100 yards and headshoot large game worst case to prevent starvation.

Some of my favorite youtube vids

22LR complete pass through deer skull( previously harvested deer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW2C3exp0R4

22LR 12" penetration on gel block at 300 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DzLQGv-w5M

22LR passing military guidelines for potential lethal penetration at 400 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUM1r_444CY

22LR through 10 layers of dry wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSVn7ozXTQ

22LR through windshield, rapid fire at 4:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFvrqCG118

Not saying 22 should be main choice for battle/hunting, but it goes to show a guy with a 10/22 is no trifling matter once centrefire ammo is used up.

Last edited by brad55; 06-06-2019 at 09:57 PM.
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  #267  
Old 07-20-2019, 03:20 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Any firearm is going to be of value if only as a confidence builder. A .22 would be a poor choice going against an armed mob, but a .22 within arms reach would help me sleep better at night.
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  #268  
Old 07-20-2019, 04:46 PM
1911-USMC 1911-USMC is offline
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The .22 LR would be a must have accessory to your guns needed in a survival situation, but it would not be my "go to" weapon. JMHO
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  #269  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:45 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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The IDF fielded 10/22s in urban operations
The Mossad equipped assassins with .22 lr Beretta 70s
The OSS utilized High Standard and Colt target pistols.
The USAF included .22 rifles in survival kits

The .22 has a long and successful history in SHTF roles.
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  #270  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:26 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Amen to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
The IDF fielded 10/22s in urban operations
The Mossad equipped assassins with .22 lr Beretta 70s
The OSS utilized High Standard and Colt target pistols.
The USAF included .22 rifles in survival kits

The .22 has a long and successful history in SHTF roles.
I am not looking to get rid of any of my .22 rimfires anytime soon. Just sayin.
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  #271  
Old 08-13-2019, 10:58 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
The IDF fielded 10/22s in urban operations
The Mossad equipped assassins with .22 lr Beretta 70s
The OSS utilized High Standard and Colt target pistols.
The USAF included .22 rifles in survival kits

The .22 has a long and successful history in SHTF roles.
The opposing view would be that the Mossad, OSS. IDF and Air Crews are highly trained in the deployment of SHTF .22lrs.

The counter to that stance is that .22lr ammo is cheap enough for "Joe and Josephine" to train to near the same standard.
It all depends on how you want to spend range time
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  #272  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:54 PM
sambob sambob is offline
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Who's going to fight a mob of people....me from cover with a suppressed .22 cal riffle and a brick of ammo and good scope and thin them out one by one cuz you'll never take them In a stand up fight, mean while let them waste their ammo shooting at shadows.
Just saying....It's what I'd do If all I had was a.22.
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  #273  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:50 PM
Calibrator Calibrator is offline
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The title of this thread is "Will a 22 cal really have any value?" based on a SHTF scenario. The bottom line is absolutely. Anything is better than throwing sticks.
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  #274  
Old 08-30-2019, 12:01 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
The IDF fielded 10/22s in urban operations
The Mossad equipped assassins with .22 lr Beretta 70s
The OSS utilized High Standard and Colt target pistols.
The USAF included .22 rifles in survival kits

The .22 has a long and successful history in SHTF roles.
When OSS and Mossad used a 22 rimfire on someone, 8 out of 10 times the muzzle would have been inserted into that persons ear canal, eye socket, or over the spot the head connects to the spinal column...

followed by one through the ear for effectiveness.



In a world with no medicine or medical care, you CANT afford to take injuries. Its going to be WORSE then the colonial era for medical care as most of the knowledge is GONE.....

So when you are in a tussle with "big bubba joe" while rooting for the last of the coffee grounds at the local star bucks.... you got to end the fight INSTANTLY... aka 38/357/44special/44 magnum/45acp to the head or chest.
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  #275  
Old 10-14-2019, 06:58 PM
Daveboone Daveboone is online now
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I agree with the outlook that in a real SHTF scenario with famine involved, most anything furred, feathered or finned will be shot off or scared off darn quickly....BUT....from the practical standpoint, a semi auto .22 (pick your preference), most of them are inexpensive, easy to keep up, easy to learn on and inexpensive to own and shoot. Several bricks of CCI Mini Mags and a Marlin model 60 is way more gun than a thousand dollar miracle do all black rifle that you never can afford to get or shoot to proficiency.
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