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Old 02-16-2020, 05:02 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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What is the cause of this missfeed?

I continue to have this missfeed about once every hundred rounds. A live round partially feeds into the chamber and the round is not under control of the extractor. I had this malfunction more commonly a year or so ago. I kept track of all of the offending magazines and got rid of them. I replaced the extractor with a Wilson bulletproof. This dramatically decreased the frequency but did not eliminate it.
Gun- series 70 Colt, 2011 model
Magazines- all Checkmate manufactured, 7 round, hybrid feed lips. Some are Colt, Ed Brown, and Checkmate labeled. Steve in Allentown warned about sticky magazine followers and how to fix that. I have made sure that all of the followers move freely in the magazine tubes.
Ammunition- all reloads with 230 grain RNL. All of my other 1911s feed it fine.
Extractor tension is adequate to prevent a live round from being shaken loose.

Not sure of what to do next in the search for 100% reliability. Any insights would be appreciated
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:19 PM
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RickB RickB is offline
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I would suspect inertia feed, due to feedlip spreading.
For some reason, hybrids are very sensitive to small variations in dimensions.
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:54 PM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Might try some extra power mag springs. Also a lightly sprung weapon allows stronger impact on recoil and can start the round out of the magazine. What mainspring and recoil springs are in the gun?

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  #4  
Old 02-16-2020, 06:00 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony doc View Post
I continue to have this missfeed ...

Magazines- all Checkmate manufactured, 7 round, hybrid feed lips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I would suspect inertia feed, ...
For some reason, hybrids are very sensitive to small variations in dimensions.
This is my experience with CheckMate hybrid lipped mags, and I generally like CheckMate products. I just haven't any success with their hybrid lipped models.

I've run through the experiments with stronger springs, my followers aren't sticking, and it happens with GI followers too. I haven't measured the feed lips, but this happened with fresh from the factory new mags.

Mine were early production from CheckMate, so perhaps they have fixed them since. On the other hand, hybrid feed lips are a Colt design, and I have a pair of 1980's vintage Metalform mags with hybrid feed lips that haven't given me any problems.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:25 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
Might try some extra power mag springs. Also a lightly sprung weapon allows stronger impact on recoil and can start the round out of the magazine. What mainspring and recoil springs are in the gun?

Joe
It is factory 16 lb recoil spring. 23 lb mainspring. All of my Colt and Checkmate mags have had the springs replaced with Wolf extra power springs. The new Ed Brown mags made by Checkmate have really stout springs (lb?) that are difficult on the fingers to load
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2020, 06:35 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I would suspect inertia feed, due to feedlip spreading.
For some reason, hybrids are very sensitive to small variations in dimensions.
Is the GI taper preferred if someone is only going to shoot RNL shaped bullets?
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2020, 06:38 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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Originally Posted by Pony doc View Post
Is the GI taper preferred if someone is only going to shoot RNL shaped bullets?
You can use them, they feed smoothly, but they are not common.

For me I use wadcutter feed lips.

Nearly every 1911 magazine manufacturer uses wadcutter feed lips, Chip McCormick, Wilson, ACT-Mag, Tripp, etc.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtq View Post
This is my experience with CheckMate hybrid lipped mags, and I generally like CheckMate products. I just haven't any success with their hybrid lipped models.

I've run through the experiments with stronger springs, my followers aren't sticking, and it happens with GI followers too. I haven't measured the feed lips, but this happened with fresh from the factory new mags.

Mine were early production from CheckMate, so perhaps they have fixed them since. On the other hand, hybrid feed lips are a Colt design, and I have a pair of 1980's vintage Metalform mags with hybrid feed lips that haven't given me any problems.
I've had five hybrids all start ejecting live rounds after little use, and I've had five that continue to work perfectly.
The first set were stainless, and it was about eight years ago. The other set is carbon steel, and I've been using them for about five years.
A shooting buddy reported problems with his stainless hybrids, I suggested he measure the feedlip spacing on a mag that was working properly, determine if the others had spread, and if so, squeeze them back into spec; he reported that the mags he'd corrected were working reliably.
I know Check-Mated tightened their specs, years ago, so any enduring issues might be due to older mags that are only now out of spec.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:15 PM
SFSMedic SFSMedic is offline
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You can tune and shape the face of your extractor so itíll snap over the round as the slide cycles forward and youíll never even know it happened. Just keep shooting.


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Old 02-16-2020, 07:34 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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Originally Posted by SFSMedic View Post
You can tune and shape the face of your extractor so itíll snap over the round as the slide cycles forward and youíll never even know it happened. Just keep shooting.


Brett Cifaldi

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How do I do this. I am using a Wilson bulletproof extractor ( which did decrease the incidence of this type of misdeed) and Wilson said just install as is.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:12 PM
megafiddle megafiddle is offline
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Having the extractor snap over the case rim will not do one bit of good if the slide is held back in a feed jam.

You need to prevent the round from jumping out in front of the extractor. The slide is trying to feed the round underneath and jamming. A different magazine feed and/or follower design is the first thing to try.

-

Last edited by megafiddle; 02-16-2020 at 08:14 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:47 PM
SFSMedic SFSMedic is offline
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What is the cause of this missfeed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
Having the extractor snap over the case rim will not do one bit of good if the slide is held back in a feed jam.



You need to prevent the round from jumping out in front of the extractor. The slide is trying to feed the round underneath and jamming. A different magazine feed and/or follower design is the first thing to try.



-


The extractor is what holds the slide back from going into full battery. If the face of the extractor is shaped to allow it to snap over then the slide won’t stop and it will go into full battery allowing the gun to cycle as normal. In fact if it’s done right you won’t even know you had an inertia feed.

This is part of what I do to extractors on all guns I do reliability work on.


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Last edited by SFSMedic; 02-16-2020 at 08:52 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:43 PM
Tim_B Tim_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFSMedic View Post

This is part of what I do to extractors on all guns I do reliability work on.


Brett Cifaldi

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Can you post a picture that shows what the front of the extractor looks like when you have reshaped it to snap over the rim from behind?
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:36 AM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_B View Post
Can you post a picture that shows what the front of the extractor looks like when you have reshaped it to snap over the rim from behind?

Don't know how he shapes it, basically just make it nice round and smooth.

I go 1 step further by grinding off some metal of the shaft, that will make it more flexible (about 1/4 of the thickness), I do that to all of my guns, an old Bullseyes shooters secret.

.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:05 AM
mickeyd mickeyd is offline
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Great article and informative.

https://rangehot.com/1911-troublesho...feed-failures/
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:28 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Great article and informative.
John Travis, AKA - 1911Tuner.

His postings have probably sold more hybrid lipped CheckMate mags than anyone on the planet.

I'm sure he forgot more about 1911's last night while sleeping, than I may ever know, but my inertia feed problems were corrected by simply not using CheckMate hybrid lipped mags.
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:26 PM
mickeyd mickeyd is offline
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Originally Posted by jtq View Post
John Travis, AKA - 1911Tuner.

His postings have probably sold more hybrid lipped CheckMate mags than anyone on the planet.

I'm sure he forgot more about 1911's last night while sleeping, than I may ever know, but my inertia feed problems were corrected by simply not using CheckMate hybrid lipped mags.
I hear ya. I prefer CheckMate mags with wadcutter feed lips or WC mags with same lips for the loads I shoot.
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:35 PM
Tim_B Tim_B is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I have read several of his articles before. He is very knowledgeable.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:10 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by Pony doc View Post
A live round partially feeds into the chamber and the round is not under control of the extractor.
As others have noted, this is most definitely the result of an inertia feed. What has happened is the the round in the chamber popped out of the magazine before it was supposed to and floated into the chamber all on its own. Then the slide came forward, engaged the top round in the magazine, and attempted to feed it into the chamber where it encountered the first round and everything came to a halt.

I cannot speak from experience about the Check-mate feed lips spreading. I have had zero problems with any of the 40 or so extended tube, 8 round, hybrid feed lip mags I have (once I tweaked a bunch of them to fix follower sticking issues). However, using others first hand experiences, I would measure the feed lip distance of all the mags and compare them one to another to see if you can determine if this is the root cause of the inertia feed. Some rainy day I may do this to all my mags just out of curiosity.
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:51 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
As others have noted, this is most definitely the result of an inertia feed. What has happened is the the round in the chamber popped out of the magazine before it was supposed to and floated into the chamber all on its own. Then the slide came forward, engaged the top round in the magazine, and attempted to feed it into the chamber where it encountered the first round and everything came to a halt.

I cannot speak from experience about the Check-mate feed lips spreading. I have had zero problems with any of the 40 or so extended tube, 8 round, hybrid feed lip mags I have (once I tweaked a bunch of them to fix follower sticking issues). However, using others first hand experiences, I would measure the feed lip distance of all the mags and compare them one to another to see if you can determine if this is the root cause of the inertia feed. Some rainy day I may do this to all my mags just out of curiosity.
1911 Tuner is the reason I am using the Checkmate hybrid feed lip magazines. I will get a micrometer and measure my magazines this weekend. I have kept records for the last year on which magazines have malfunctioned. Can you tell me exactly where to measure?
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:48 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by Pony doc View Post
Can you tell me exactly where to measure?
That's a tricky question. I'm sure there are specs somewhere for the width across the lips at the front of the magazine but they are probably for GI fully tapered lips.

I would measure all the magazines at the same spot then compare these measurements for each mag to see if they are all the same or how much variance there is between them.

I found this doing a quick search. I suspect you'll find lots of info by doing your own search.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack View Post
For .45ACP, the back of the feed lips should be .415"-.420" and open up .003"-.005" (.418" - .425") towards the front lips.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:13 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Feeding issues and ammo....

I assume a 230 gr. RNL means round nose lead bullet.....? If this is correct, is it a reload or is it a factory round? How far do the fired cases eject from the gun....? If the empty brass is thrown 3-5 ft. away from the gun, that is good slide velocity and helps to allow good feeding. If the rounds eject 6-8 feet away (or further) from the gun, this may be an indication of excessive slide velocity, and it is possible the slide is cycling too fast to allow proper feeding from the magazine..... Lead bullets are usually sized to be .001" over the bore diameter, and usually provide better gas sealing than a 230 gr. FMJ bullet, and consequently, the RNL bullets may be producing more velocity and recoil impulse. If your 230 gr. RNL loads are producing excessive slide velocity, it may be worthwhile to use a 25 lb. main spring, instead of the standard 23 lb. mainspring, which will slow the slide velocity to an acceptable level....and will help to produce better feed reliability with the magazines...Ö.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:27 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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One of the great things about this forum is that folks with a great deal of experience and knowledge freely share it with others. One of the challenges with the 1911 is there are often multiple possible causes for any given malfunction.

As Rwehavinfunyet points out, slowing the rearward velocity of the slide is commonly done to lessen the recoil impulse which often ameliorates the inertia feeds you are experiencing. In addition to his recommendation of using a heavier than standard weight mainspring (hammer spring) you can also fit a flat bottom firing pin stop to further reduce the slide's impact against the frame at the end of its travel. As Jolly Rogers points out, you can also replace the magazine springs with stronger ones to help the cartridges resist the effects of inertia.

However, RickB's and jtq's experience with hybrid feed lips should be heeded and as megafiddle suggests you may want to buy a Tripp, McCormick, or Wilson mag to see if a parallel feed lip (wadcutter) mag solves the problem.

We and the larger community would benefit by learning what you finally discover as the solution to the problem.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:36 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
... you may want to buy a Tripp, McCormick, or Wilson mag to see if a parallel feed lip (wadcutter) mag solves the problem.
Or CheckMate https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-m...-magazine.html
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:54 PM
Pony doc Pony doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
I assume a 230 gr. RNL means round nose lead bullet.....? If this is correct, is it a reload or is it a factory round? How far do the fired cases eject from the gun....? If the empty brass is thrown 3-5 ft. away from the gun, that is good slide velocity and helps to allow good feeding. If the rounds eject 6-8 feet away (or further) from the gun, this may be an indication of excessive slide velocity, and it is possible the slide is cycling too fast to allow proper feeding from the magazine..... Lead bullets are usually sized to be .001" over the bore diameter, and usually provide better gas sealing than a 230 gr. FMJ bullet, and consequently, the RNL bullets may be producing more velocity and recoil impulse. If your 230 gr. RNL loads are producing excessive slide velocity, it may be worthwhile to use a 25 lb. main spring, instead of the standard 23 lb. mainspring, which will slow the slide velocity to an acceptable level....and will help to produce better feed reliability with the magazines...Ö.

Yes I shoot 230 round nose lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. Best I can tell they are the same profile as hardball. Most of my brass lands 2-4 feet away. I am shooting a fairly moderate load of 5.0 gr of HP38. Lyman lists a range of powder charges from 4.0-6.8 grains. I do not have a chronometer but they are very manageable.

I will measure the feed lips as suggested by Steve in Allentown. I know which magazines are the offenders and can see if that correlates.

Would it be appropriate to try a GI style feedlip since I only shoot round nose bullets? Anxious to get this problem solved. The two Colts I am shooting now are my 5th and 6th colts. I couldn't hardly make any of the others malfunction with any reload with any manner of gun show special magazines for the last 38 years. Now that I am enlightened and only shoot good quality mags I have no end of trouble. I'll report back as soon as I get the measurements
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