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  #1  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:25 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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20 MOA rail at 200-300 yds?

I've got a Browning X-Bolt McMillan Max Long Range in 6.5 Creed. It came with a 20 MOA rail mounted to the receiver, and a separate 0 MOA rail in the box. I'm fixin to mount a Vortex 5 x 25 x 50 to it.

Due to range limitations, for the time being, MOST of my shooting will be at 200 and maybe out to 300 yds. The scope says it has a Max elevation adjustment of 70 MOA. I assume that is rail to rail and from the center I have 35 MOA of adjustment before it bottoms out.

Question....Would you guys leave the 20 MOA rail on it and crank the scope elevation down enough to get a 200 yd zero? Or would you put the 0 MOA rail on it in order to achieve a 200 yd zero with minimal adjustment??

Thoughts???
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2020, 03:27 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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I’d leave and use the 20 MOA rail. Why limit yourself or specifically your scope. I’ve got a 20 MOA scope mount on one of my bolts guns and wish I did the same on my Surgeon rifle which has a 0 MOA.

Last edited by Plantar5; 02-19-2020 at 03:36 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2020, 05:21 PM
Deerhunter_28 Deerhunter_28 is offline
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Keep the 20 MOA rail on the rifle & sell the 0 MOA rail


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  #4  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:36 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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You will be fine using the 20 MOA base. I have a 20 MOA scope base and Vortex PST Gen II 5-25x50 scope mounted on my 308. I zeroed starting at 100, then 200, and 300 yards and shoot with no problems. No problems going back and forth at those distances either.
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  #5  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:43 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piexcel View Post
You will be fine using the 20 MOA base. I have a 20 MOA scope base and Vortex PST Gen II 5-25x50 scope mounted on my 308. I zeroed starting at 100, then 200, and 300 yards and shoot with no problems. No problems going back and forth at those distances either.
Perfect. That's the information I was looking for. Thanks!!!
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2020, 07:18 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Pump the brakes for a second.....

Are you planning to actually dial up for long range or only use the reticle stadia lines? If you are going to use just the stadia lines and NOT dial up, I would use the 0 MOA rail. If you plan to dial up and stretch its legs I would use the 20MOA rail.
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:23 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Pump the brakes for a second.....

Are you planning to actually dial up for long range or only use the reticle stadia lines? If you are going to use just the stadia lines and NOT dial up, I would use the 0 MOA rail. If you plan to dial up and stretch its legs I would use the 20MOA rail.
Given my current range limitations, I was going to zero at 200, then use a stadia line at 300.....then do the same at 500 yds when our 500 yd range is finally completed sometime late this year. I doubt that I'll ever shoot past that range as there isn't anywhere close to me to shoot past that.......which is what had me initially thinking to go with the 0 MOA rail.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:26 AM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Given my current range limitations, I was going to zero at 200, then use a stadia line at 300.....then do the same at 500 yds when our 500 yd range is finally completed sometime late this year. I doubt that I'll ever shoot past that range as there isn't anywhere close to me to shoot past that.......which is what had me initially thinking to go with the 0 MOA rail.
I would agree with M-Peltier.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:54 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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If you do not anticipate going past 500 yards.

I would go with the straight mount. As long as you have the adjustment it does not really matter. But a straight mount rig is just a cleaner setup IMO. A 20 MOA mount is just not really made for a sub 500 yard range. Not really sure right off, but I think that it could affect your parallax adjustment, and give you headaches for zeroing at different ranges or using different ammo.
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2020, 01:07 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Thanks for the info gents. You guys have convinced me to go with the 0 MOA rail given that 500 yds is going to be the absolute max range I shoot.

My Vortex came in today. Gotta pickup a set of rings, mount it and bore sight it. Then head to the range, weather permitting.

Thanks again.
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2020, 06:37 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Thanks for the info gents. You guys have convinced me to go with the 0 MOA rail given that 500 yds is going to be the absolute max range I shoot.

My Vortex came in today. Gotta pickup a set of rings, mount it and bore sight it. Then head to the range, weather permitting.

Thanks again.
Good choice. All around. My son has the X-Bolt Hells Canyon McMillan Long Range (not the Max) 6.5CM in the older A-Tac camo. With the Vortex Viper and he loves it. Took a Caribou with it last year at about 400 yds. He said he would not have felt as confident taking that shot with his other bolt gun.

Now a little plug for Vortex. When they first came on the scene, I was not a fan. Im kinda a glass snob, and I admit it. If its not a Leupold, Trijicon, Swarovski S&B etc, im usually not interested. My son being low on the totem pole in the Military and married, doesn't have the dollars to burn and Vortex gives Mil personnel a great discount. He got me started on Vortex, and am glad he did. Even their lower end stuff is very good and their customer service is as good or better than anyone. Daltons first scope reticle was not what he really wanted. He called Vortex to see if it could be changed. They said, No, but send it in and well send you whatever you want.
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Last edited by M-Peltier; 02-21-2020 at 06:41 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:04 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
I would go with the straight mount. As long as you have the adjustment it does not really matter. But a straight mount rig is just a cleaner setup IMO. A 20 MOA mount is just not really made for a sub 500 yard range. Not really sure right off, but I think that it could affect your parallax adjustment, and give you headaches for zeroing at different ranges or using different ammo.
Let’s pump the brakes, again.

I’m not the expert, but I’m still in the 20 MOA camp.
Not sure what “cleaner” means. Once it’s mounted, you can’t tell the difference.
Ruger (RPRs) come with 20 MOA rails as do many other bolt guns. Its zeroed at 100 yards.
I’ve got 20 MOA mount on my T3xTacA1 and the parallax isn’t affected.
I also think dialing up should give better shot placement than the stadia lines, no? I shoot factory hornady 140/147 gr eld match and use their phone APP with good success. At the distances 500 and in, With 6.5 cm it shouldn’t matter that much.

Last edited by Plantar5; 02-21-2020 at 07:09 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:49 AM
joepilot joepilot is offline
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I'm in the 20 MOA camp. I have a 20 MOA rail on my 700 which is zeroed at 100 yards. Haven't shot it past 500 yards yet, but so far it's working great and I expect it will work just as well at longer ranges too.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:44 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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OK brakes are pumped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Let’s pump the brakes, again.

I’m not the expert, but I’m still in the 20 MOA camp.
Not sure what “cleaner” means. Once it’s mounted, you can’t tell the difference.
Ruger (RPRs) come with 20 MOA rails as do many other bolt guns. Its zeroed at 100 yards.
I’ve got 20 MOA mount on my T3xTacA1 and the parallax isn’t affected.
I also think dialing up should give better shot placement than the stadia lines, no? I shoot factory hornady 140/147 gr eld match and use their phone APP with good success. At the distances 500 and in, With 6.5 cm it shouldn’t matter that much.
By cleaner, I am not really referring to appearance. I am referring to the rifle being set up properly for the use. 20 MOA mounts are for long range use. Can you use them for sub 500 yard use? Sure you can. But that is not what they were designed for.

You say that parallax is not affected. All right I believe you. I said that I was not sure. But I am still thinking that your adjustments for same might be more precise using a straight mount. And I am not going to argue with you about dialing for elevation over use of stadia. But for a quick shot who knows what might punch your ticket.

I am not sure how you can zero a 20 MOA mount at 100 yards or any other distance for that matter.
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:46 AM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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I have rifles with 20moa rails because they need them. I have rifles with flat rails because that's all they need. The ONLY reason to run a 20moa rail is if your scope runs out of elevation with a flat rail. Doesn't matter if you're shooting 200 yds or 1500 yds. If you don't need one, why use one...given the choice? You never want to be at the limit of any adjustment as a "normal" operating range.
Use the right part for the right application.
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2020, 11:15 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Exactly right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
I have rifles with 20moa rails because they need them. I have rifles with flat rails because that's all they need. The ONLY reason to run a 20moa rail is if your scope runs out of elevation with a flat rail. Doesn't matter if you're shooting 200 yds or 1500 yds. If you don't need one, why use one...given the choice? You never want to be at the limit of any adjustment as a "normal" operating range.
Use the right part for the right application.
My way of thinking as well.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2020, 02:50 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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USMM, All i was pointing out was that given the 2 mounts, theres no downside to using the 20 MOA imho. The 0 MOA mount certainly works and if that’s all I had that’s what id use.
But that wasn’t the case presented.
If anything, youre taking more advantage of your scope which in some less expensive scopes may not have enough elevation in them without changing or adversely affecting anything.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2020, 02:58 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
I have rifles with 20moa rails because they need them. I have rifles with flat rails because that's all they need. The ONLY reason to run a 20moa rail is if your scope runs out of elevation with a flat rail. Doesn't matter if you're shooting 200 yds or 1500 yds. If you don't need one, why use one...given the choice? You never want to be at the limit of any adjustment as a "normal" operating range.
Use the right part for the right application.
Thats right.
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2020, 03:20 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
USMM, All i was pointing out was that given the 2 mounts, theres no downside to using the 20 MOA imho. The 0 MOA mount certainly works and if thatís all I had thatís what id use.
But that wasnít the case presented.
If anything, youre taking more advantage of your scope which in some less expensive scopes may not have enough elevation in them without changing or adversely affecting anything.
Except the OP specifically stated he will not be dialing up at all. With some scopes the tracking inside the erector does not like to track consistently in those cheaper scopes you mention.Even some more expensive scopes. With a 100 yd zero the erector assembly is far from being centered in the tube with a 20 MOA rail. My sons other bolt gun had a 20MOA rail on it when he first got it. His Leupold VX-2 (1" tube) would not zero properly with that mount. One little adjustment would move the impact several inches one way, almost nothing the other. We thought it was a bad scope. Leupold got it tested it, said it was fine. I tried it on my rifle with a 0 MOA rail, it was fine. Back on the 20 MOA it was all over the place. Put a 0 MOA on it and boom...all was right with the world again. I believe if you have a 30mm tube on some of the better long range scopes, you will probably be good to go if 20 MOA is what you have, and you plan to dial up. If you do not plan to dial up, there is no reason at all to use a 20 MOA rail, and live with the erector so far off center.
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2020, 03:36 PM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Except the OP specifically stated he will not be dialing up at all. With some scopes the tracking inside the erector does not like to track consistently in those cheaper scopes you mention.Even some more expensive scopes. With a 100 yd zero the erector assembly is far from being centered in the tube with a 20 MOA rail. My sons other bolt gun had a 20MOA rail on it when he first got it. His Leupold VX-2 (1" tube) would not zero properly with that mount. One little adjustment would move the impact several inches one way, almost nothing the other. We thought it was a bad scope. Leupold got it tested it, said it was fine. I tried it on my rifle with a 0 MOA rail, it was fine. Back on the 20 MOA it was all over the place. Put a 0 MOA on it and boom...all was right with the world again. I believe if you have a 30mm tube on some of the better long range scopes, you will probably be good to go if 20 MOA is what you have, and you plan to dial up. If you do not plan to dial up, there is no reason at all to use a 20 MOA rail, and live with the erector so far off center.
Thanks for writing this all out and explaining it. This is what I meant buy "You never want to be at the limit of any adjustment as a "normal" operating range.". Perfect explanation. There very well can be a downside to using a 20 moa rail if you don't need one.
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2020, 06:17 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Thanks for all of the replies fellas.

I'll post s few pics of this beast once I get the scope mounted.
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2020, 06:32 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Exactly right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Except the OP specifically stated he will not be dialing up at all. With some scopes the tracking inside the erector does not like to track consistently in those cheaper scopes you mention.Even some more expensive scopes. With a 100 yd zero the erector assembly is far from being centered in the tube with a 20 MOA rail. My sons other bolt gun had a 20MOA rail on it when he first got it. His Leupold VX-2 (1" tube) would not zero properly with that mount. One little adjustment would move the impact several inches one way, almost nothing the other. We thought it was a bad scope. Leupold got it tested it, said it was fine. I tried it on my rifle with a 0 MOA rail, it was fine. Back on the 20 MOA it was all over the place. Put a 0 MOA on it and boom...all was right with the world again. I believe if you have a 30mm tube on some of the better long range scopes, you will probably be good to go if 20 MOA is what you have, and you plan to dial up. If you do not plan to dial up, there is no reason at all to use a 20 MOA rail, and live with the erector so far off center.
If you are using a 20 MOA mount outside of the environment that it is designed for. Then you are going to have to make up for it otherwise. As in pushing the envelope for your scope. Just like KOO25 said. Some scopes can do this with no ill effect, some not so much. You are better off starting out with the right tools for the job.
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  #23  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:42 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Thanks for all of the replies fellas.

I'll post s few pics of this beast once I get the scope mounted.
Canít wait to see it..
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