California veteran shoots robbery suspect who pistol-whipped him at market - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-24-2019, 10:30 AM
Amp Mangum Amp Mangum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,443
California veteran shoots robbery suspect who pistol-whipped him at market

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...pistol-whipped
__________________
I treat my lawnmower better than I treat my 1911.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-24-2019, 12:36 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 21,019
From the film it looks like.

The store clerk was seriously lucky that the perp did not shoot him. Of course the media will likely be referring to the dead perp as the victim, and the clerk as the shooter.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-24-2019, 12:51 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: On Guard.....
Posts: 5,424
Article says bad guy was running away and clerk let go a shot hitting him.
Even in Florida that may cause issue because the threat had evaporated by then.
California I can only imagine what he may face?
__________________
http://constitution.org/lrev/rkba_wayment.htm
COTEP#782
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-24-2019, 01:52 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of California
Posts: 1,668
Since it did not happen in San Francisco and the bad guy was still in the store and still in possession of a weapon when he was shot the clerk will probably be OK legally. Probably. In CA it is hard to be sure.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-24-2019, 02:33 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Article says bad guy was running away and clerk let go a shot hitting him.
Even in Florida that may cause issue because the threat had evaporated by then.
California I can only imagine what he may face?
Here in the Gunshine state it would only be an issue in counties with liberal gun hating prosecutors like Katherine Fernandez Rundle. But she would lose the case in court.

I think the threat still exists as long as the perpetrator has attempted a forcible felony (past tense), still has a weapon, and is still in or near the premises. Keep in mind that someone who just committed a serious forcible felony can have the mind-set to turn around and start shooting as he exits the door to eliminate a witness. Happens often, better safe than sorry.

Plus the Florida state statute (Castle Doctrine) is also in favor of the clerk shooting at an armed robber exiting the premises. The Castle doctrine isn't limited to a resident, but also includes a "dwelling" like a business.

Quote:
776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person who is in a dwelling or residence in which the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use or threaten to use:
(a) Nondeadly force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force; or
(b) Deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
(2) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
Notice that it isn't limited to breaking into a dwelling... but also committing a forcible felony or having committed a forcible felony, (present or past tense) inside that dwelling. Bottom line: It is legal to shoot and kill an armed robber as he exits.

But if that crook was unarmed and never laid a hand on the clerk and was merely shop-lifting... then yes, there would not be any legal grounds to use lethal force and it could get you 2nd degree murder charges.

Anyhow that is my interpretation.

Last edited by PolymerMan; 12-24-2019 at 02:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-24-2019, 08:49 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,401
We have Castle Doctrine here in CA. And although Stand Your Ground is not on our books it can be used. It's weird.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-24-2019, 08:53 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,401
CALCRIM allows a jury to acquit on a Stand Your Ground basis. I think this clerk is going to be okay. However, I think a civil suit may be possible.

But like with the criminal case, also unlikely to prevail.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-07-2020, 08:23 PM
Gutschott Gutschott is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Central BFE
Posts: 110
That clerk is an idiot! When you're at the disadvantage, you DO NOT put up that kind of fight. Is the money in that till worth your life? THEN he goes for a gun right in front of the guy! He's lucky to be still breathing! Geez!
People, learn when and when not to make your move and if you SHOULD make a move! Get some training, do some mock scenes with your buddies and THINK about what could happen to you!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:25 PM
TRX302 TRX302 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutschott View Post
When you're at the disadvantage, you DO NOT put up that kind of fight. Is the money in that till worth your life?
Unfortunately, in a large percentage of cases the robber will take the money and shoot anyway. They go in primed for violence, and they play out the scenario in their heads.

It's so common that LAPD merged their Robbery and Homicide divisions long ago.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:38 AM
Jayhawkhuntclub Jayhawkhuntclub is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 310
Video does not show him shooting the robber as he's running away. I watched it 3 times. He appears to have been shot during struggle, from what I see.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-08-2020, 10:40 PM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Home for good, finally
Posts: 2,933
Double post

Last edited by OIF2; 02-08-2020 at 10:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-08-2020, 10:41 PM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Home for good, finally
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRX302 View Post
It's so common that LAPD merged their Robbery and Homicide divisions long ago.
Hmm...Sure about that?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved